RE: Japanese Car Makers Back 200mph Eliica EV
Discussion
SystemParanoia said:
The nissan leaf for example...
£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
Yup 5 years I'd say max and you'll probably see max range dropping noticeably after 3 years. So depreciate that over 5 years and suddenly its a hell of an expensive hatchback. £5.6k a year + charging and inconvenience - no thanks. I think Jag were on the best lines with that turbine + electric motors thing tbh.£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
renrut said:
SystemParanoia said:
The nissan leaf for example...
£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
Yup 5 years I'd say max and you'll probably see max range dropping noticeably after 3 years. So depreciate that over 5 years and suddenly its a hell of an expensive hatchback. £5.6k a year + charging and inconvenience - no thanks. I think Jag were on the best lines with that turbine + electric motors thing tbh.£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
@Mr Gear : the leaf isnt a hybrid, its full electric
a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
Edited by SystemParanoia on Tuesday 9th November 12:05
SystemParanoia said:
the leaf isnt a hybrid, its full electric
a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
I see the Government is paying to have thousands of electric charge points installed.a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
Forget the name of the site. Its just many that are covering the story.
http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blog/index.php...
Edited by Morningside on Tuesday 9th November 12:13
SystemParanoia said:
@Mr Gear : the leaf isnt a hybrid, its full electric
a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
I'm well aware of that, but there is absolutely nothing out there to support your pessimistic view on battery life.a battery has a usable lifetime of X cycles
and each cycle decreases its storage capacity by Y
once the usable range for you is too low.. you have to replace the pack at a cost of Z
Edited by SystemParanoia on Tuesday 9th November 12:05
This isn't some cheap electronic device designed to be thrown away after a few years, it will almost certainly be equipped with battery management that monitors sectors and conditions the battery throughout its life.
i would absolutely LOVE to own a leaf
but the 10 year payback on the 28k is just farrrr too long!! ( as good as the management is... will the battery last 10years whilst continuing give the 100mile claimed range? )
and how much would a replacement pack cost?! thats where the majority of the car's cost is coming from!
its currently better take the 28k and then to just spend 10k of it on a monaro
and use the change to fuel it for 3 years
but the 10 year payback on the 28k is just farrrr too long!! ( as good as the management is... will the battery last 10years whilst continuing give the 100mile claimed range? )
and how much would a replacement pack cost?! thats where the majority of the car's cost is coming from!
its currently better take the 28k and then to just spend 10k of it on a monaro
and use the change to fuel it for 3 years
Edited by SystemParanoia on Tuesday 9th November 12:19
SystemParanoia said:
i would absolutely LOVE to own a leaf
but the 10 year payback on the 28k is just farrrr too long!! ( as good as the management is... will the battery last 10years whilst continuing give the 100mile claimed range? )
and how much would a replacement pack cost?! thats where the majority of the car's cost is coming from!
its currently better take the 28k and then to just spend 10k of it on a monaro
and use the change to fuel it for 3 years
I don't doubt for a second that some people WILL spend £10k on second-hand V8 and hang the fuel costs. Thank goodness for choice! But these are not the same people who are likely to buy a leaf or any other electric vehicle at this point in time.but the 10 year payback on the 28k is just farrrr too long!! ( as good as the management is... will the battery last 10years whilst continuing give the 100mile claimed range? )
and how much would a replacement pack cost?! thats where the majority of the car's cost is coming from!
its currently better take the 28k and then to just spend 10k of it on a monaro
and use the change to fuel it for 3 years
Edited by SystemParanoia on Tuesday 9th November 12:19
The Leaf is expensive and the performance marginal. But it serves two purposes. It allows early-adopters to get their hands on a product which represents the future. This is exciting for some people. It also gives Nissan invaluable experience in building, maintaining and servicing an electric car fleet, and at £28k, it will be nothing more than a toe in the water for them, not a plunge in the deep end.
Imagine if they sold them a £15k and sold half a million of them, and they all developed a battery fault within the second year? The warranty claims would kill them.
I think that manufacturers are deliberately withholding mass-market EVs, and who can blame them?
[/quote]
I don't care how many wheel's it has, or how fast it can go. The fact is, it can only do 200 miles of the most economical driving to a charge and it isn't affordable.
If the prius isn't affordable after what 6 years? then what's the point. It's still a dull, awful looking, souless piece of rubbish that's expensive to manufacturer. People who buy these types of electric cars must only do short runs because of the charge range. Therefore i reckon there's a big argument to question the actual co2 savings over a 3 year ownership when you consider the manufacturing costs, R&D and charging/maintenance.
I love new technology and i love inventions but i just see the current crop of electric and hybrids as the modern day concord. Interesting on paper, too expensive and too many imperfections in reality.
Edited by briers on Monday 8th November 15:48
[/quote]
You've got the words right!
How on Earth can any real PistonHead want to have an electric car!
No noise, no excitment, and even the so-to-say green side of it: it does pollute, of course it does, indirectly.
geoffracing said:
I don't care how many wheel's it has, or how fast it can go. The fact is, it can only do 200 miles of the most economical driving to a charge and it isn't affordable.
If the prius isn't affordable after what 6 years? then what's the point. It's still a dull, awful looking, souless piece of rubbish that's expensive to manufacturer. People who buy these types of electric cars must only do short runs because of the charge range. Therefore i reckon there's a big argument to question the actual co2 savings over a 3 year ownership when you consider the manufacturing costs, R&D and charging/maintenance.
I love new technology and i love inventions but i just see the current crop of electric and hybrids as the modern day concord. Interesting on paper, too expensive and too many imperfections in reality.
You've got the words right!
How on Earth can any real PistonHead want to have an electric car!
No noise, no excitment, and even the so-to-say green side of it: it does pollute, of course it does, indirectly.
Have you ever used an electric vehicle?If the prius isn't affordable after what 6 years? then what's the point. It's still a dull, awful looking, souless piece of rubbish that's expensive to manufacturer. People who buy these types of electric cars must only do short runs because of the charge range. Therefore i reckon there's a big argument to question the actual co2 savings over a 3 year ownership when you consider the manufacturing costs, R&D and charging/maintenance.
I love new technology and i love inventions but i just see the current crop of electric and hybrids as the modern day concord. Interesting on paper, too expensive and too many imperfections in reality.
You've got the words right!
How on Earth can any real PistonHead want to have an electric car!
No noise, no excitment, and even the so-to-say green side of it: it does pollute, of course it does, indirectly.
Edited by Mr Gear on Tuesday 9th November 13:04
geoffracing said:
You've got the words right!
How on Earth can any real PistonHead want to have an electric car!
No noise, no excitment, and even the so-to-say green side of it: it does pollute, of course it does, indirectly.
Yes you are so right as my ford focus 1.6 is exciting wonderful machine that makes the most soul stirring noise. I look forward to the moment i can get into it and turn the key to awake the beast infact i am getting a stiffy just thinking about.How on Earth can any real PistonHead want to have an electric car!
No noise, no excitment, and even the so-to-say green side of it: it does pollute, of course it does, indirectly.
No hang on i'm mistaken
Its dull crappy souless piece of crap that is about as much fun as a dishwasher. But the cash i save running it lets me own some toys.
I'd love an electric car as then i can avoid petrol stations.
Mr Gear said:
renrut said:
SystemParanoia said:
The nissan leaf for example...
£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
Yup 5 years I'd say max and you'll probably see max range dropping noticeably after 3 years. So depreciate that over 5 years and suddenly its a hell of an expensive hatchback. £5.6k a year + charging and inconvenience - no thanks. I think Jag were on the best lines with that turbine + electric motors thing tbh.£28k on the road.
for the driving i do ( 20k pa )
ill need to own it for 10 bloody years before i regain my capital expenditure by way of fuel savings...
and i doubt the battery will last that long!! maybe 4 year lifespan.
current crop just dont stack up financially
hopefully this will be a game changer
They've been trying to crack improved battery capacity for a long long time (EV1 anyone) and to date the best commercially viable technologies still suffer from these effects. Oh there are a few types bandied about in research papers etc but non that can be manufactured on the scales discussed for the Leaf et al.
An Insight or Prius won't have as apparent a problem as a pure EV due to the petrol engine masking any battery life shortcomings, all they'd see it as poorer mpg only as the engine has to cut in more often to recharge.
Personally I'm gonna have to see what the Nissan Leaf comes with in terms of warranties etc.
ETA - The Leaf will be given an 8yr / 100,000 miles warranty in the US from what I can find. Having read a few blogs on the matter even some hardened greenies seem to be sceptical that Nissans Leaf will make that long and could lead to Nissan having some huge liabilities to pay for. Daft when they could have just made a diesel hybrid Micra, Note, Juke and Qashqai and watched the money roll in.
Edited by renrut on Tuesday 9th November 13:32
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