RE: SOTW: Honda Prelude
Discussion
This is by LJK Setright, so mods feel free to pull it for copyright infringement:
So long as they remain in contact with the road, all four tyres of the car share its weight. They also share the task of stopping it; in four-wheel-drive cars they share the burden of making it go; and in all cars, in case you had not realised it, they share the duty of steering.
Conventional cars being what they are (gross travesties of engineering ideals), the rear tyres only get steering instructions by devious means. You turn the steering wheel: the front wheels turn, their tyres begin to generate a lateral force to move the nose of the car.
What happens next is a complex sequence of changing forces, all time-consuming and most of them destabilising, which result in the rear tyres taking on their share of making the car follow the desired course. By stages the car settles into a steady-state cornering mode which should continue until you do something else.
With active steering, all four tyres assume their new duties simultaneously. All those intermediate phases are eliminated: the car responds with alacrity and accuracy, regardless of how fast or how hard you are cornering.
Engineers have been investigating four-wheel steering for a long time. An Italian named Amati built a fine prototype in 1927; a couple of Britons, Freddie Dixon and Tony Rolt, built a frightful one a decade later.
The first hint of modern active steering came in 1983 when Mazda revealed that they were working on a four-wheel-steering system. First in production, though, came the Honda Prelude of 1987, with a system whereby the rear wheels were steered according to the steering input by the driver, and in which road speed was irrelevant.
I was enchanted by it: a succession of 4WS Preludes has served as my personal transport ever since. My present one will have to last the rest of my life, for they do not make them any more.
Deftness, adroitness, sensual gratification, agility, accuracy: all these terms come flooding to mind when trying to explain why this car is nicer to drive than anything else. What may matter most is the supreme ability to dodge, which has saved me from an assortment of accidents involving either errant road-users or things falling off lorries. As a lane-changer, especially at high speeds, the Prelude must be without peer.
Every other manufacturer pronounced it rubbish while privately trying to find a way of equalling it without paying royalties to Honda. Nissan and Mitsubishi produced approximations made farcical by an electronic time-delay, which ruined the effect. BMW tried a version in their 850 coupe, but failed to persevere. The French and Audi VW offered rear-wheel steering that was a disgusting system of squishy suspension mounts, The remainder waited for 4WS to go away, and their judgement was good: it went.
What killed active steering? Car salesmen. People who are good at selling things are not the sort who can explain the dynamic benefits: the most they could do was to point out how much easier it made parking.
It was a tragedy. All sorts of things matter from time to time when driving - brakes, accelerator response, gearbox - but the one thing in use all the time is the steering. To make do with second-best is not merely risky, it is heart-rending. Fancy technology sells cars today, but it has to be something that can be seen. Something that can at best be felt, however worthy, is unlikely to open wallets.
So long as they remain in contact with the road, all four tyres of the car share its weight. They also share the task of stopping it; in four-wheel-drive cars they share the burden of making it go; and in all cars, in case you had not realised it, they share the duty of steering.
Conventional cars being what they are (gross travesties of engineering ideals), the rear tyres only get steering instructions by devious means. You turn the steering wheel: the front wheels turn, their tyres begin to generate a lateral force to move the nose of the car.
What happens next is a complex sequence of changing forces, all time-consuming and most of them destabilising, which result in the rear tyres taking on their share of making the car follow the desired course. By stages the car settles into a steady-state cornering mode which should continue until you do something else.
With active steering, all four tyres assume their new duties simultaneously. All those intermediate phases are eliminated: the car responds with alacrity and accuracy, regardless of how fast or how hard you are cornering.
Engineers have been investigating four-wheel steering for a long time. An Italian named Amati built a fine prototype in 1927; a couple of Britons, Freddie Dixon and Tony Rolt, built a frightful one a decade later.
The first hint of modern active steering came in 1983 when Mazda revealed that they were working on a four-wheel-steering system. First in production, though, came the Honda Prelude of 1987, with a system whereby the rear wheels were steered according to the steering input by the driver, and in which road speed was irrelevant.
I was enchanted by it: a succession of 4WS Preludes has served as my personal transport ever since. My present one will have to last the rest of my life, for they do not make them any more.
Deftness, adroitness, sensual gratification, agility, accuracy: all these terms come flooding to mind when trying to explain why this car is nicer to drive than anything else. What may matter most is the supreme ability to dodge, which has saved me from an assortment of accidents involving either errant road-users or things falling off lorries. As a lane-changer, especially at high speeds, the Prelude must be without peer.
Every other manufacturer pronounced it rubbish while privately trying to find a way of equalling it without paying royalties to Honda. Nissan and Mitsubishi produced approximations made farcical by an electronic time-delay, which ruined the effect. BMW tried a version in their 850 coupe, but failed to persevere. The French and Audi VW offered rear-wheel steering that was a disgusting system of squishy suspension mounts, The remainder waited for 4WS to go away, and their judgement was good: it went.
What killed active steering? Car salesmen. People who are good at selling things are not the sort who can explain the dynamic benefits: the most they could do was to point out how much easier it made parking.
It was a tragedy. All sorts of things matter from time to time when driving - brakes, accelerator response, gearbox - but the one thing in use all the time is the steering. To make do with second-best is not merely risky, it is heart-rending. Fancy technology sells cars today, but it has to be something that can be seen. Something that can at best be felt, however worthy, is unlikely to open wallets.
[quote=Black S2K]This is by LJK Setright...]
Hats off to you for doing that - I assume I've buggered up the quoting - but these cars [MkIV -Preludes] really were engineering showcases of their day. It's perhaps easy to mock the hands into which they have now fallen but such is life - they remain an ideal which I think Honda have sadly (and understandably for commercial reasons) had to let go. Viva la Insight and CR-Z................Not.
Hats off to you for doing that - I assume I've buggered up the quoting - but these cars [MkIV -Preludes] really were engineering showcases of their day. It's perhaps easy to mock the hands into which they have now fallen but such is life - they remain an ideal which I think Honda have sadly (and understandably for commercial reasons) had to let go. Viva la Insight and CR-Z................Not.
ApexJimi said:
I have to say, the interior of a good spec'd 4th Gen prelude is a very nice place to be, and the driving position is very good too.
True indeed; the poor ergonomics of many 'prestige-teir' cars are often conveniently overlooked by journos.It's another of those things (including excellent visibility) that makes a Prelude really enjoyable to drive.
Lovely shed
Picked up one myself the other week, used to have a Jap import 2.2 Si and wanted to scratch my 90's coupe itch again having stuffed my 535 BM into a hedge
. Managed to find a UK spec 2.2vtec with 135k on it and FSH. Been having a whale of a time in it, especially amusing having vtec kicking in on the icy roads we've had round here and then trying to wheelspin/torquesteer it in something resembling a straight line.
Only cost me a grand, so not sure I'll be able to let myself flog it when sensible but dull company Golf Diesel arrives in April
Picked up one myself the other week, used to have a Jap import 2.2 Si and wanted to scratch my 90's coupe itch again having stuffed my 535 BM into a hedge
. Managed to find a UK spec 2.2vtec with 135k on it and FSH. Been having a whale of a time in it, especially amusing having vtec kicking in on the icy roads we've had round here and then trying to wheelspin/torquesteer it in something resembling a straight line.Only cost me a grand, so not sure I'll be able to let myself flog it when sensible but dull company Golf Diesel arrives in April
stewjohnst said:
Lovely shed
Picked up one myself the other week, used to have a Jap import 2.2 Si and wanted to scratch my 90's coupe itch again having stuffed my 535 BM into a hedge . Managed to find a UK spec 2.2vtec with 135k on it and FSH. Been having a whale of a time in it, especially amusing having vtec kicking in on the icy roads we've had round here and then trying to wheelspin/torquesteer it in something resembling a straight line.
Only cost me a grand, so not sure I'll be able to let myself flog it when sensible but dull company Golf Diesel arrives in April
Invest in a induction air filter on ebay. About 30 quid, the noise is incredible over 5000 revs. Well worth it.Picked up one myself the other week, used to have a Jap import 2.2 Si and wanted to scratch my 90's coupe itch again having stuffed my 535 BM into a hedge
. Managed to find a UK spec 2.2vtec with 135k on it and FSH. Been having a whale of a time in it, especially amusing having vtec kicking in on the icy roads we've had round here and then trying to wheelspin/torquesteer it in something resembling a straight line.Only cost me a grand, so not sure I'll be able to let myself flog it when sensible but dull company Golf Diesel arrives in April
they are actually quite good cars and nice looking, but no offense to those who drive them, but every one i see looks like a knackered pile of crap with loads of dents and often being driven by someone who thinks its a prestige motor..but they probably dont even have insurance.. if not that type the max powered junk with giant F1 rear wings glued on... shame.. maybe thats why these cars are worthless nowerdays... good car but will never be a classic.... unlike say a VR6 Corrado, try finding one of those for a grand!
Doniger said:
johnpeat said:
kambites said:
My legs didn't fit, there just wasn't enough distance between the seat and the pedals, even with the seat right back. I'm only 6' but I do have quite long legs for my height.
This is a pet interest of mine - how some people seem to be able to fit into cars when others cannot (even tho they're similar sizes).I'm 6'5" - longish legs in particular - so my problem is always getting my knees behind the wheel. I cannot heel/toe any car (as my right leg has to bend just to get into the car). I cannot get behind the wheel of a Z3/Z4, most TVRs or a MK1 or MK2 MX5 - and yet Clarkson (same height) drives one across the Middle East!??
I know part of it is the seating position people prefer - I'm forced to slump in the seat to avoid banging my head AND to get my knees extra room but maybe some people won't do that!??
Certainly, if I were to insist on sitting in the seat 'properly', there are probably not 10 cars in manufacture I could actually drive!
Back on-topic, these 'Ludes are starting to look pretty good, though I didn't like them when they were new. I still don't like the taillights on the 4th gen, but I love the taillights on the 5th gen, however the 5th gen has those strange headlights- arrgh! Can't win.
What I always thought was funny is how here in America, Civic Type-Rs are regarded like gods (they never sold Type-Rs here), but the Prelude Si had more power, was quicker, and you could buy one at any Honda dealer.
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