Why are there no decent modern classics being made?
Discussion
vrooom said:
modern citroen DS. mmmmmmmm
while not a copy or pastiche of the DS surely the C6 fulfills that to a greater or lesser degree ?also the potential of the 'new' DSes vs the be cheapened pugs that are the 'core' citroen family car range
as for the comment about the E30 - when you consider what the original M3 was compared to even the 1M never mind the current M3 you can see what people mean - or a comparision between a more 'mass market' maker with the RS2000 escort, XR4/XR4*4/urCossie and the current hot focii or mundaneos.
cars like the MX5 and S2000 are much more in the realm of the modern classic and all but the P38 rangie have had a degree of iconic status ...
add The Defender to the list of 'modernised classic in production' along with Morgan and the caterfields
Edited by mph1977 on Sunday 2nd January 07:06
Engineer1 said:
The thing is the likes of Morgan and Caterfield get past the safety regs by playing the game, low enough volumes, classified as a kit car.
IIRC Morgan and Caterham have achieved EU Type Approval.Morgan is definately NOT a it car and neither is the TD2000.
and IMHO an SVA/IVA is a complete PITA as each tester is prone to pass or fail identical cars based on their opinion on the day.
IIRC all Mitsubishi Evos were SVA'd (enhanced SVA, as was). Doesn't make them low volume or Kit cars.
Nissan did allright with that figaro
But I expect it's quite a niche market, most people want something modern and in any event have no taste anyway.
I'm suprised the top niche buiders like rolls or bentley don't do something besides the neo-retro (or whatever you wanna call it) efforts they produce though. Something more statesmanlike. With such low production volume anyway, and such well-heeled clientèle, you'd think it viable.
But I expect it's quite a niche market, most people want something modern and in any event have no taste anyway.
I'm suprised the top niche buiders like rolls or bentley don't do something besides the neo-retro (or whatever you wanna call it) efforts they produce though. Something more statesmanlike. With such low production volume anyway, and such well-heeled clientèle, you'd think it viable.
It's possible to buy a great many classic designs with modern-ish running gear as kit cars (many are turnkeys). Forget the awful 'lookalike' bolt-on kits for Fieros and MR2s (both great cars in their own right and not worth 'disguising' just to impress some non-petrolheads), there are respectable replicas out there of the following, often with parts interchangability with the originals:
AC Ace and Cobra, Aston Martin DB3S and DBR1, all the Austin-Healeys, Bentley 4 1/2-litre VdP Tourer, Bugatti T35, Ferrari Dino racers, 246 GT/S road cars, Daytona, 275GTB/4 and P4 (all available with running gear from Fiat Dinos and 400is from Enzo Design and Foreman among others), Ford GT40, all Jaguar's sports cars (SS100, XK120-150, XKSS and E-Type are all available, KWE will fit an XJS or XJC with modern running gear and you can even get an XK180 on XKR running gear from Paul Banham coachbuilders). Parallel Designs offer Lamborghinis Miura, Countach and Diablo reverse-engineered to take BMW V12s, you can get a new Lancia Stratos and 037 Rallye from Hawk, the Lotus Seven, Eleven and 23 are available one way or another as kits, Marcos still do the Mini-Marcos, pretty much all the aircooled 4-cylinder Porsches are available as kits based on VW bits as per the originals, and there's a company called Replicator who have recently brought out a track-day version of the Triumph TR2 with a Ford Zetec engine.
And that's before we get to all the firms out there who will re-engineer existing classics around modern running gear.
As for today's classics, it's subject to the 20-year effect. We've just come out of a particularly awful decade, which we will continue to see as awful for the next ten years. Then after that it'll be re-evaluated and we'll decide we like bits of it. Some of those bits will be cars that will get dubbed 'classics', although plenty of cars, if they make an instant impact and don't blot their copybook, become 'instant classics' - the Nissan GTR is a recent example.
AC Ace and Cobra, Aston Martin DB3S and DBR1, all the Austin-Healeys, Bentley 4 1/2-litre VdP Tourer, Bugatti T35, Ferrari Dino racers, 246 GT/S road cars, Daytona, 275GTB/4 and P4 (all available with running gear from Fiat Dinos and 400is from Enzo Design and Foreman among others), Ford GT40, all Jaguar's sports cars (SS100, XK120-150, XKSS and E-Type are all available, KWE will fit an XJS or XJC with modern running gear and you can even get an XK180 on XKR running gear from Paul Banham coachbuilders). Parallel Designs offer Lamborghinis Miura, Countach and Diablo reverse-engineered to take BMW V12s, you can get a new Lancia Stratos and 037 Rallye from Hawk, the Lotus Seven, Eleven and 23 are available one way or another as kits, Marcos still do the Mini-Marcos, pretty much all the aircooled 4-cylinder Porsches are available as kits based on VW bits as per the originals, and there's a company called Replicator who have recently brought out a track-day version of the Triumph TR2 with a Ford Zetec engine.
And that's before we get to all the firms out there who will re-engineer existing classics around modern running gear.
As for today's classics, it's subject to the 20-year effect. We've just come out of a particularly awful decade, which we will continue to see as awful for the next ten years. Then after that it'll be re-evaluated and we'll decide we like bits of it. Some of those bits will be cars that will get dubbed 'classics', although plenty of cars, if they make an instant impact and don't blot their copybook, become 'instant classics' - the Nissan GTR is a recent example.
hairyben said:
I'm suprised the top niche buiders like rolls or bentley don't do something besides the neo-retro (or whatever you wanna call it) efforts they produce though. Something more statesmanlike. With such low production volume anyway, and such well-heeled clientèle, you'd think it viable.
Erm - they still do, although the well-heeled clientele are the discreet sort who don't crow about it like footballers might.Take a look at the Sultan of Brunei's collection, especially the Ferraris and Bentleys, and it becomes pretty evident that, if you've got the money, they'll do pretty much whatever you want on the quiet. One customer shoehorned an Enzo's innards into a Ferrari P4 shape IIRC.
Guvna said:
Take a look at the motorbike manufactures, Triumph for example. They are making modernised versions of classic 60's bikes and bikes which would not look out of place in the 60's.
Why are more car manufacturers not doing this? Ford have done it with the GT but how about a 60's style Mustang? Or a modern Ferrari designed like the 250? Or a vintage styled Aston? Or a modernised MK1 GTI? You get the idea..
With modern tastes and fashion going "vintage" how long do you think until more car manufacturers man up? Will they do it at all?
Buyers won't buy cars that are as small as they used to be.Why are more car manufacturers not doing this? Ford have done it with the GT but how about a 60's style Mustang? Or a modern Ferrari designed like the 250? Or a vintage styled Aston? Or a modernised MK1 GTI? You get the idea..
With modern tastes and fashion going "vintage" how long do you think until more car manufacturers man up? Will they do it at all?
If motorbikes had grown by the same amount as cars then modern bikers would have to wear stilts to stop in traffic
IIRC there was an article on PH a year or two ago about VW Golf Mk1 or Mk2's only just going out of production in South Africa...
Here we go...
Here we go...
Edited by Diabolik on Sunday 2nd January 16:38
Twincam16 said:
hairyben said:
I'm suprised the top niche buiders like rolls or bentley don't do something besides the neo-retro (or whatever you wanna call it) efforts they produce though. Something more statesmanlike. With such low production volume anyway, and such well-heeled clientèle, you'd think it viable.
Erm - they still do, although the well-heeled clientele are the discreet sort who don't crow about it like footballers might.Take a look at the Sultan of Brunei's collection, especially the Ferraris and Bentleys, and it becomes pretty evident that, if you've got the money, they'll do pretty much whatever you want on the quiet. One customer shoehorned an Enzo's innards into a Ferrari P4 shape IIRC.
philoldsmobile said:
the citi golf was available until 2009, though sadly South Africa only..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUm5NbAnP2YEdited by philoldsmobile on Sunday 2nd January 16:38
Edited by Diabolik on Sunday 2nd January 16:43
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