Which do you prefer rwd,fwd or 4wd?

[otolith]

Scuffers said:

rufusgti said:

I can feel the power through the wheel.

err... why is this a good thing?

most car designers will spend a month of Sundays trying to eliminate any 'torque steer' etc corrupting the steering.

And in the process make sure you can't feel anything else either!

[rufusgti]

Scuffers said:

rufusgti said:

I can feel the power through the wheel.

err... why is this a good thing?

most car designers will spend a month of Sundays trying to eliminate any 'torque steer' etc corrupting the steering.

Yes I know, and on my current hatch it's actually quite bad. you have to ease the power in, its great.

It's not textbook perfect. I understand that. But i'm not a textbook driver. Put me on a track with a trained racing driver tutor andf after a few days i may change my mind, but smacking the limiter on some quiet back road blast im looking for something different.

Please though, Do feel free to disagree.

[rufusgti]

otolith said:

Scuffers said:

rufusgti said:

I can feel the power through the wheel.

err... why is this a good thing?

most car designers will spend a month of Sundays trying to eliminate any 'torque steer' etc corrupting the steering.

And in the process make sure you can't feel anything else either!

Thats just bks isn't it though really?

[Alfanatic]

Scuffers said:

rufusgti said:

I can feel the power through the wheel.

err... why is this a good thing?

most car designers will spend a month of Sundays trying to eliminate any 'torque steer' etc corrupting the steering.

It adds interest. My dad chose a Volvo T4 over an E46 as a company car because, though the BMW might have been more competent on the limit, when not on the limit it was uninvolving. He found it too clinical. The Volvo, at least, gave him something to do by wriggling the steering wheel about in his hands when he gave it some welly, it made him concentrate a little bit more on keeping the car pointing up the road without being so bad as to give him sweaty palms make him feel like it was trying to bury him in the nearest oncoming truck. It made the ride more interesting when he wasn't on the doorhandles (i.e. 99% of his time on the road).

I could see his point on the BMW being too clinical, and while torque steer isn't my idea of pleasurable feedback, at least it engaged the driver a bit. So I can understand rufusGTI's point. I'd have chosen the Volvo too. But not over an engaging RWD car. I prefer uncorrupted steering with decent feedback, but I'll take a bit of torque steer over numb lifelessness.

[otolith]

rufusgti said:

otolith said:

Scuffers said:

rufusgti said:

I can feel the power through the wheel.

err... why is this a good thing?

most car designers will spend a month of Sundays trying to eliminate any 'torque steer' etc corrupting the steering.

And in the process make sure you can't feel anything else either!

Thats just bks isn't it though really?

I don't think so, or I wouldn't have said it. There is no way an 860kg car could steer as well as an Elise while putting 190bhp through the front wheels and retaining the civility modern cars require. It would need much wider front tyres, power steering and suspension geometry compromised to put the power down as cleanly as possible.

[Scuffers]

doogz said:

Scuffers said:

thiscocks said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I prefer rwd when it dry or slightly damp & if the road is soaking prefer 4wd.

What drivetrain do most people prefer to drive in this day & age?

I enjoy rwd for fun & steering feel the most.

RWD does not mean you have good steering feel.

For the road a 4WD haldex system is probably best. FWD until you need the extra traction.

in your dreams, Haldex is a bodge, used as it;s cheap and easy to integrate into an existing FWD setup.

if you notice, on proper cars, even VAG use Torsen III centre diffs for the Quattro A4/A5/A6/A8 etc.

most of the jap high end stuff uses RWD with a electronically controlled multi-plate clutch to the front or an electronically controlled centre diff.

I see your point. I just have one word though.

Veyron.

true enough, although the Haldex system used on the Veyron has almost nothing in common with the ones used on the Golf/etc platforms other than it has clutches and the name.

[AnotherClarkey]

I fear that what I am about to say may cause some peoples' heads to explode.

Not only have I always preferred FWD, especially for pressing on over less than familiar roads, I reckon that it will be further improved by the advent of the electric car. With a throttle set up like on the Mini E where backing off engages significant amounts of regenerative braking you would have basically a 1 pedal car ideally set up for neutralising understeer by feathering the accelerator.

[RobM77]

AnotherClarkey said:

I fear that what I am about to say may cause some peoples' heads to explode.

Not only have I always preferred FWD, especially for pressing on over less than familiar roads, I reckon that it will be further improved by the advent of the electric car. With a throttle set up like on the Mini E where backing off engages significant amounts of regenerative braking you would have basically a 1 pedal car ideally set up for neutralising understeer by feathering the accelerator.

How would braking the front wheels neutralise understeer, other than by weight transfer, which you can do already in a FWD car, and is best done with all four wheels, or even just the rear wheels (via LFB) braking?

No problem preferring FWD though! We're all different

[r1ch]

I don't have a preferance, as long as the car is fun i don't mind

[ewenm]

r1ch said:

I don't have a preferance, as long as the car is fun i don't mind

[AnotherClarkey]

RobM77 said:

AnotherClarkey said:

I fear that what I am about to say may cause some peoples' heads to explode.

Not only have I always preferred FWD, especially for pressing on over less than familiar roads, I reckon that it will be further improved by the advent of the electric car. With a throttle set up like on the Mini E where backing off engages significant amounts of regenerative braking you would have basically a 1 pedal car ideally set up for neutralising understeer by feathering the accelerator.

How would braking the front wheels neutralise understeer, other than by weight transfer, which you can do already in a FWD car, and is best done with all four wheels, or even just the rear wheels (via LFB) braking?

No problem preferring FWD though! We're all different

You have it right, I see it as a simplified version of left foot braking which I use in some situations but am not fully comfortable with in all circumstances. If the car was set up right I think it could be delightful at the kind of 7-8 tenths level which I try not exceed on the road.

[RobM77]

AnotherClarkey said:

RobM77 said:

AnotherClarkey said:

I fear that what I am about to say may cause some peoples' heads to explode.

Not only have I always preferred FWD, especially for pressing on over less than familiar roads, I reckon that it will be further improved by the advent of the electric car. With a throttle set up like on the Mini E where backing off engages significant amounts of regenerative braking you would have basically a 1 pedal car ideally set up for neutralising understeer by feathering the accelerator.

How would braking the front wheels neutralise understeer, other than by weight transfer, which you can do already in a FWD car, and is best done with all four wheels, or even just the rear wheels (via LFB) braking?

No problem preferring FWD though! We're all different

You have it right, I see it as a simplified version of left foot braking which I use in some situations but am not fully comfortable with in all circumstances. If the car was set up right I think it could be delightful at the kind of 7-8 tenths level which I try not exceed on the road.

LFB only works though because you're on brakes (all four wheels) and power (front wheels) at the same time though (end result - braking biased towards the rear wheels). This electric car braking is only ever off the power....

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 4th January 21:54

[AnotherClarkey]

RobM77 said:

AnotherClarkey said:

RobM77 said:

AnotherClarkey said:

I fear that what I am about to say may cause some peoples' heads to explode.

Not only have I always preferred FWD, especially for pressing on over less than familiar roads, I reckon that it will be further improved by the advent of the electric car. With a throttle set up like on the Mini E where backing off engages significant amounts of regenerative braking you would have basically a 1 pedal car ideally set up for neutralising understeer by feathering the accelerator.

How would braking the front wheels neutralise understeer, other than by weight transfer, which you can do already in a FWD car, and is best done with all four wheels, or even just the rear wheels (via LFB) braking?

No problem preferring FWD though! We're all different

You have it right, I see it as a simplified version of left foot braking which I use in some situations but am not fully comfortable with in all circumstances. If the car was set up right I think it could be delightful at the kind of 7-8 tenths level which I try not exceed on the road.

LFB only works because you're on brakes (all four wheels) and power (front wheels) at the sane time though. This electric car braking is only ever off the power....

I am not really talking about full-blown rally style LFB, rather a slight brush of the brake if simply lifting off is not enough to tighten the line - easier than swapping your right foot from accelerator to brake.

Anyway, I will stop hijacking the thread and patiently wait for the development of a sporting FWD electric road car...............

[Scuffers]

the anti-4WD brigade always make me laugh.

think about it, would you argue a car with the brakes only on 2 wheels is better than being on all 4?

[Alfanatic]

Scuffers said:

the anti-4WD brigade always make me laugh.

think about it, would you argue a car with the brakes only on 2 wheels is better than being on all 4?

The thread asks which we prefer, not which is better.

[Scuffers]

doogz said:

Scuffers said:

the anti-4WD brigade always make me laugh.

think about it, would you argue a car with the brakes only on 2 wheels is better than being on all 4?

So to you, grip is the most important thing?

to a point, on a ROAD car, yes.

[thiscocks]

Scuffers said:

doogz said:

Scuffers said:

thiscocks said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I prefer rwd when it dry or slightly damp & if the road is soaking prefer 4wd.

What drivetrain do most people prefer to drive in this day & age?

I enjoy rwd for fun & steering feel the most.

RWD does not mean you have good steering feel.

For the road a 4WD haldex system is probably best. FWD until you need the extra traction.

in your dreams, Haldex is a bodge, used as it;s cheap and easy to integrate into an existing FWD setup.

if you notice, on proper cars, even VAG use Torsen III centre diffs for the Quattro A4/A5/A6/A8 etc.

most of the jap high end stuff uses RWD with a electronically controlled multi-plate clutch to the front or an electronically controlled centre diff.

I see your point. I just have one word though.

Veyron.

true enough, although the Haldex system used on the Veyron has almost nothing in common with the ones used on the Golf/etc platforms other than it has clutches and the name.

...the clutches and the name, and the fact it was made by Haldex. Wait, that means it is infact a Haldex system!

I don't see how it is 'cheap' and your desription of the 'jap high end stuff' pretty much describes the haldex system. Audi use the haldex on alot of it's cars also, plus Landrover. Must be a real 'bodge' system if all these manufacturers want to use it.

[chris7676]

Mid engined (RWD, but I suppose I would enjoy it in 4WD too).

[GravelBen]

For me:

Generally Rwd for optimum fun, 4wd for optimum effectiveness in any conditions. Rear-biased 4wd blurs the line, very slippery conditions move the balance back toward 4wd for fun as well as effectiveness.

Fwd can be an amusing novelty for short periods but before long I find its limitations frustrating - though I've never driven the likes of an Integra Type-R to experience genuinely good Fwd handling.

[Scuffers]

thiscocks said:

...the clutches and the name, and the fact it was made by Haldex. Wait, that means it is infact a Haldex system!

I don't see how it is 'cheap' and your desription of the 'jap high end stuff' pretty much describes the haldex system. Audi use the haldex on alot of it's cars also, plus Landrover. Must be a real 'bodge' system if all these manufacturers want to use it.

look, it's cheap, that's why OEM's use it

given the choice, your looking at making a 4WD version of your FWD car, you either have to spend a st load developing a gearbox with a transfer case etc, or you buy in a Haldex setup.

consider the market for this is the type of car that will never actually really test a 4WD system (and yes I include the freelander in this), then it's a no-brainer.

Jeep have been using a 'mans' version of this for years (NV247 etc), Nissan use an electronics controlled version in the first of the slylines, the main difference being that both these are predominantly RWD cars with a clutch to the front, so that the balance of the car is still RWD.

Vag use Torsen III on the more serious platforms (excluding the Veyron)