Is an S4 the only option?

[TTwiggy]

TonyHetherington said:

TTwiggy said:

It's an S4, isn't it?

I had similar criteria - most notably the estate to get my drum kit in the back - but all the other stuff too, and it's where I ended up.

They're even cheaper now than when I bought mine - some scarily good bargains out there.

Yes, I'm thinking avant as I sometimes have to move guitar and bass amps!

[TonyHetherington]

I use Adrian Flux (from their sponsorship on here) and pay £600 as I say. When my insurance was due in November I did a quick comparison search too and got nothing below £1000 (which did worry me somewhat!) but Adrian Flux came through.

Year before that I was with A-plan, who were similar.

[Lefty]

I think so!

Would you be averse to buying something with a bit less grunt and tuning it a bit?

Impreza estate/forester/legacy are all quite tunable and more subtle than the blue and gold wrx-type subraus that have the unfortunate barry image thing going on... A 2.5T Impreza Estate can make 350bhp for relatively little outlay and will be very quick in real world situations. Not the rommiest though.

Volvo V70R is an interesting one I think, may feel a bit podgy compared to the Audi.

I went through a very similar process to you a year ago (4wd, quick, practical, subtle) and ended up with a Golf R32 for about £21k. After a year of ownership I wouldn't do it again TBH. I bought my wife a '55 plate Forester 2.5xt for £7500 and like it more than the golf!

[Patrick Bateman]

I know it gets mentioned all the time but I feel the need to say it.

You could limit yourself a lot less by including RWD cars and just getting a set of winter tyres if you were that concerned by this winter.

That'd open up a whole host of other options.

[y2blade]

Lefty said:

Subaru Legacy or Forester Turbo?

Passat w12 much more subtle than the s4 but good luck finding one...

S8?

Volvo V70 or S60R?

what he said^^^


also R36 Passat
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/grouptests...

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 4th January 12:52

[Lefty]

The need for 4wd depends entirely on personal circumstances. I live up a farm track that my r32 on normal tyres can navigate in 4 inches of snow but my w211 E320cdi on winter tyres couldn't.

When the snow gets too deep for the r32 (maybe 6-8 inches) I use the old land Rover And, actually, the Forester (on winters) was amazing in the snow - even with 2 feet of the stuff. I drove it into my field just to see if I could get it stuck and it was only in the 3-4 feet drifts that it started to struggle. Never had to tow it out though.

OP, have you considered something fast and rwd (m3?) for, say, £10k and a £3k 4x4 for winter/tip/dog duties?

Edited by Lefty on Tuesday 4th January 12:41

[98C4S]

Not that this helps you at all, I had an S4, I sold it after 3 months, was quite possibly the most boring car I have ever owned, and I've owned a load!

Must it be 4WD?

[Risotto]

Have you considered a 996 Carrera 4? All depends how much practicality you need. They do have 4 seats but you wouldn't want to be shoving adults in the back.

Buying/running costs might be slightly higher than some of your other contenders but it might be worth adding to the shortlist...

[TTwiggy]

Lefty said:

The need for 4wd depends entirely on personal circumstances. I live up a farm track that my r32 on normal tyres can navigate but my w211 E320cdi on winters couldn't.

When the snow gets too deep for the r32 (maybe 6-8 inches) I use the old land Rover

OP, have you considered something fast and rwd (m3?) for, say, £10k and a £3k 4x4 for winter/tip/dog duties?

I agree that it's an odd requirement 99% of the time, but I had 4wd (admittedly only Haldex) on my TT, and on the few occasions (one winter when I was the only car able to get up a particular hill near me, another time when I drove out of a mud-slick of a car park where friends had to abandon rwd and fwd cars) I did need it, I really appreciated it.

Taking my Elise up to the Lakes one winter was 'interesting'!

I have looked at M3s - fantastic cars, but in the area where I live, they are the preserve of 'freelance pharmaceutical suppliers' and I don't want the plod attention that they seem to get...

[Snoop Bagg]

As ^ said Carrera 4 of one of these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2239256.htm

[TTwiggy]

Risotto said:

Have you considered a 996 Carrera 4? All depends how much practicality you need. They do have 4 seats but you wouldn't want to be shoving adults in the back.

Buying/running costs might be slightly higher than some of your other contenders but it might be worth adding to the shortlist...

Yep - at one point this question might have been 'is a 996 C4 the only option?'

Sadly, it seems that my budget only stretches to high-milers, and I would worry about porker running costs, as I intend to keep this car for about 3 years.

[Lefty]

TTwiggy said:

Lefty said:

The need for 4wd depends entirely on personal circumstances. I live up a farm track that my r32 on normal tyres can navigate but my w211 E320cdi on winters couldn't.

When the snow gets too deep for the r32 (maybe 6-8 inches) I use the old land Rover

OP, have you considered something fast and rwd (m3?) for, say, £10k and a £3k 4x4 for winter/tip/dog duties?

I agree that it's an odd requirement 99% of the time, but I had 4wd (admittedly only Haldex) on my TT, and on the few occasions (one winter when I was the only car able to get up a particular hill near me, another time when I drove out of a mud-slick of a car park where friends had to abandon rwd and fwd cars) I did need it, I really appreciated it.

Taking my Elise up to the Lakes one winter was 'interesting'!

I have looked at M3s - fantastic cars, but in the area where I live, they are the preserve of 'freelance pharmaceutical suppliers' and I don't want the plod attention that they seem to get...

I quite agree, I ran a VX220 turbo over 1 snowy winter and it wasn't the best! We have 3 cars, each one is 4wd. Last winter we had snow on the ground from mid December until the end of March. 3.5 months where no 2wd vehicles got up our road! A lot of people on PH talk complete crap about the benefits of 4wd...

I would consider another rwd car but only if I had a good, reliable, comfortable and relatively economical 4x4 as a backup. My current Landie wouldn't be any use.

Seriously it sounds like 2 cars might be the answer if you drive an s4 and it doesn't really do it for you...

Edited by Lefty on Tuesday 4th January 12:51

[RobM77]

doogz said:

RobM77 said:

doodles19 said:

RobM77 said:

It might be worth researching the 4WD systems that the various cars have. I don't know much about this area, but someone posted a video recently of a test where they put various 4WD cars on a ramp and removed/reduced traction from one end, and most wouldn't climb the ramp, and just sat spinning the traction reduced wheels instead.

Any chance you have a link?

Thanks

I'll have a look tonight for you. It was on a thread in the last four weeks, and probably just before Christmas IIRC.

It was an ad for a Subaru dealership in the states. Which showed the Subaru was the only one that actually worked. The guy was talking utter nonsense throughout the video, and tbh i think it was "fixed" somehow.

Aha - fair enough, I didn't realise that (I'm not interested in off road driving at all). I have heard there are differences between systems though.

[SteveS Cup]

S4 is your only option... I was going to say you'll find it bloody boring but then you wrote you had a TT (which I did) and if you liked that then the S4 will be awesome!

Personally I think they feel numb... like the TT, no feel or feedback. They go round corners and the grip is staggering but you just feel detatched from it. Not what I'd want from a Sporty car. I've not driven the RS4 yet.

The only other fast 4wd saloon I can think of is the Insignia VXR but they're still quite expensive (only 1 yr old) and not exaclty subtle!

So basically the S4 is for you!

[Lefty]

RobM77 said:

doogz said:

RobM77 said:

doodles19 said:

RobM77 said:

It might be worth researching the 4WD systems that the various cars have. I don't know much about this area, but someone posted a video recently of a test where they put various 4WD cars on a ramp and removed/reduced traction from one end, and most wouldn't climb the ramp, and just sat spinning the traction reduced wheels instead.

Any chance you have a link?

Thanks

I'll have a look tonight for you. It was on a thread in the last four weeks, and probably just before Christmas IIRC.

It was an ad for a Subaru dealership in the states. Which showed the Subaru was the only one that actually worked. The guy was talking utter nonsense throughout the video, and tbh i think it was "fixed" somehow.

Aha - fair enough, I didn't realise that (I'm not interested in off road driving at all). I have heard there are differences between systems though.

Very much so. Permanent 4x4 means a centre diff so that power is always split 50/50 to the front and rear axles (this won't stop cross-axle shenanigans but hey-ho).

Haldex-type 4wd as fitted to s3/r32 are 100% fwd until the fronts start to slip which is where the clutch arrangeemnt moves up to 50% of the power to the back axle.

[farrendahl]

TTwiggy said:

Lefty said:

Before 300bhp/tonne gets in:


http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2364133.htm

not sure it covers my requirement for a 'subtle' image, but thanks!

Well it's subtle in comparison to a Sherman Tank

If it were me I do be looking for a Legacy Saloon, so subtle it's bordering on boring (yet strangely I still like them)

[MrOrange]

TTwiggy said:

Yep - at one point this question might have been 'is a 996 C4 the only option?'

Sadly, it seems that my budget only stretches to high-milers, and I would worry about porker running costs, as I intend to keep this car for about 3 years.

Porkers are cheap to run if well looked after by a cheap indy. In my experience it was a lot less than an Audi V8 and I've had both. In fact the Porker has been the cheapest car for me to run for the last 15 years. Don't be afraid of miles. The C4 is a little dull, mind

Looy here http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2355155.htm - Manual 85k miles, less than £13k - bargain

Edited by MrOrange on Tuesday 4th January 13:03

[Lefty]

Something like this:

http://www.defender2.net/forum/post7385.html

But maybe a 110 station wagon to meet your practicality requirements...



It certainly wouldn't be dull!

[Risotto]

MrOrange said:

TTwiggy said:

Yep - at one point this question might have been 'is a 996 C4 the only option?'

Sadly, it seems that my budget only stretches to high-milers, and I would worry about porker running costs, as I intend to keep this car for about 3 years.

Porkers are cheap to run if well looked after by a cheap indy. In my experience it was a lot less than an Audi V8 and I've had both. In fact the Porker has been the cheapest car for me to run for the last 15 years. Don't be afraid of miles. The C4 is a little dull, mind

Looy here http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2355155.htm - Manual 85k miles, less than £13k - bargain

I'm not saying I disagree but a lot depends on what has/hasn't been done. That advert you posted might be a bargain if the track control arms, clutch, RMS, rads, condensers, disks, pads, tyres, etc have been attended to recently. Could be an absolute money pit if they all need replacing in the next 12 months though...

Edited by Risotto on Tuesday 4th January 13:09

[TonyHetherington]

SteveS Cup said:

Personally I think they feel numb... like the TT, no feel or feedback. They go round corners and the grip is staggering but you just feel detatched from it.

That's pretty fair. They certainly aren't bristling with feedback, and the ride is so crashy that your teeth feel the ride more than your bum cheeks do. BUT, even considering that, I still think it's a cracking car. You certainly can't thread it and manipulate it like you can a Lotus - the feedback through the wheel is so very different.