How much does having a safe car bother you?

How much does having a safe car bother you?

Author
Discussion

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
Yet, despite the predictions of the theory of risk compensation, safer cars have resulted in a falling death toll in the face of increasing passenger miles.

Alfanatic

9,339 posts

218 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
Indeed. While a safer car may (or may not) prompt the driver to take more risks, it appears that this increase in risk of having a crash is more than offset by either the increase in chance of avoiding a crash, or the decrease in risk of being hurt in a crash, that modern cars provide through their ABS and stability control and airbags etc.

thiscocks

3,127 posts

194 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
davepoth said:
Noccer said:
Besides lap belts seem good enough for aircraft - how quick do they stop if they bale out at the end of the runway?
3)It runs high profile narrow tyres - makes the handling a bit safer.

Hows that?

Hitler Hadrump

1,750 posts

172 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
Rubin215 said:
There is a relationship between the perception of how safe you feel and how likely you are to take risks.

i.e. if you are in 2 tonnes of comedy jeep (or a "Discovery" as some people call them) airbagged to the max, traction control, abs, seatbelt pretensioned etc you are more likely to drive like a cock than if you are in a 1968 mini with only some old bean cans between you and certain death.

Unfortunately, this also counts for motorcycles too (my favourite mode of transport) where so many people think that because they are wrapped in the hide of a dead animal and have a fibreglass bucket on their head they are immortal...
This is true but the wrong way round (for me at least). I drive an old Mini and it feels like the safest car ever built. It's so nimble and small it lets you believe you could avoid anything, fit through any gap. Getting into a new car, even something small, feels like driving a container ship. I feel so distant from the road, like I'm not completely in control.

I'm sure what makes the Mini feel safe is the same thing making bikers feel immortal, not the leathers or helmet.

Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
Not in the slightest. The only thing I'm bothered about is seatbelts. They are the only safety device that's so obvious in its benefits that it's required every driver uses them by law for good reason.

Everything else just strikes me as typical techy-types tinkering with things for the sake of it. Yes, it's possible to buy a car now that it's practically impossible to crash or die in, but the very existence of that car does not render a car with good seatbelts, handling, tyres and visibility 'unsafe'.

My main worry with all of this is that I think all this safety kit is making the average driver complacent, and actually more likely to have or cause an accident regardless of whether they're likely to be hurt or not. The trend for buying a galumphing great off-roader or MPV when one precious artefact child arrives is also troubling in a kind of 'arms race' mentality. There comes a point where your car can only get so safe, and merely starts getting more dangerous for everyone else.

My view of safety is generally judged on whatever measures the cars most likely to have massive accidents - rally cars - have. You don't find any airbags in there, just very strong seatbelts and a roll cage.

fluffnik

20,156 posts

226 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
thiscocks said:
davepoth said:
3)It runs high profile narrow tyres - makes the handling a bit safer.

Hows that?
More progressive and communicative behaviour - lower limits, but more easily approached.

thiscocks

3,127 posts

194 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
fluffnik said:
thiscocks said:
davepoth said:
3)It runs high profile narrow tyres - makes the handling a bit safer.

Hows that?
More progressive and communicative behaviour - lower limits, but more easily approached.
I always thought that high profile gave less communicative behaviour? Agree with lower limits.

WeirdNeville

5,935 posts

214 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
thiscocks said:
fluffnik said:
thiscocks said:
davepoth said:
3)It runs high profile narrow tyres - makes the handling a bit safer.

Hows that?
More progressive and communicative behaviour - lower limits, but more easily approached.
I always thought that high profile gave less communicative behaviour? Agree with lower limits.
Have you driven a car on "high profile" tyres?
Much more frogiving as you approach the limits of grip. A low profile tyre may (or may not) give you more ultimate grip, but it will break away more suddenly once you push it outside the grip envelope.

BoRED S2upid

19,641 posts

239 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
When it came to the decision to fit a roll cage to the Classic mini or not for an extra cost of c.£200 I spent the £200 there really isn't much metal in a classic mini.

thiscocks

3,127 posts

194 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
WeirdNeville said:
thiscocks said:
fluffnik said:
thiscocks said:
davepoth said:
3)It runs high profile narrow tyres - makes the handling a bit safer.

Hows that?
More progressive and communicative behaviour - lower limits, but more easily approached.
I always thought that high profile gave less communicative behaviour? Agree with lower limits.
Have you driven a car on "high profile" tyres?
Much more frogiving as you approach the limits of grip. A low profile tyre may (or may not) give you more ultimate grip, but it will break away more suddenly once you push it outside the grip envelope.
Yes, and although I agree that they are more gradual in terms of limits, I think the less feel they normaly give kind of cancells that out.

fluffnik

20,156 posts

226 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
thiscocks said:
fluffnik said:
More progressive and communicative behaviour - lower limits, but more easily approached.
I always thought that high profile gave less communicative behaviour? Agree with lower limits.
More communicative as you approach the limit, less so on turn-in... smile

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
otolith said:
Yet, despite the predictions of the theory of risk compensation, safer cars have resulted in a falling death toll in the face of increasing passenger miles.
I'm not actually disagreeing with you, but how can you possibly know that cause and effect?

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
Back when I started driving, Volvos were only bought by numpties; pensioners, slightly bohemian school-run mums and the like.

At the time they were sold very strongly on the safety aspect, and I soon developed the theory that people that chose Volvos subconcsiously knew that all was not well with their driving skills.

While the rest of us could rely on our wits to keep us alive, they needed to give fate a helping hand. Not that they would admit this of course.

greggy50

6,161 posts

190 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
When it came to the decision to fit a roll cage to the Classic mini or not for an extra cost of c.£200 I spent the £200 there really isn't much metal in a classic mini.
Your mini look's lovely smile
What is this silly engine transplant you are doing b16?

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
kambites said:
otolith said:
Yet, despite the predictions of the theory of risk compensation, safer cars have resulted in a falling death toll in the face of increasing passenger miles.
I'm not actually disagreeing with you, but how can you possibly know that cause and effect?
A fair point, causation is only implied - though we know that people walk away from accidents in modern cars which would almost certainly have killed or severely injured them in older cars.

Doesn't actually matter, though, the theory of risk compensation predicts that people will behave more dangerously in order to keep their risk constant, and that has not happened, the risk has been allowed to decline.

GeraldSmith

6,887 posts

216 months

Tuesday 11th January 2011
quotequote all
I'd love to see a comparison between age and interest in safety, i bet there is a strong correlation.

In my case I started driving over 30 years ago in cars with no safety features worth talking about, did that make me safer? Not at all. I recently drove a route in a Ferrari California that I used to drive a lot when I was in my 20s in a 1.8 Open Manta. I still know the places I looked on as overtaking opportunities but half of them I wouldn't use now in the Ferrari, let alone in a Manta.

Age brings experience and a realisation that you aren't imune from anything. Good driving skills aren't always enough. I value acceleration, handling and braking more than belts, bags and crumple zones, but realistically I wouldn't want to be without either.