Just had a rare experience - saw something totally new to me

Just had a rare experience - saw something totally new to me

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VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Saturday 22nd January 2011
quotequote all
Deva Link said:
This is why aftermarket HIDs etc are illegal. Doesn't matter even if you did fit the levelling and washing - you can't legalise something that wasn't fitted when the car left the factory.
But they'll still pass an MOT so long as the beam pattern is correct and they're behind the OEM glass with E-marks.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

244 months

Saturday 22nd January 2011
quotequote all
VeeFour said:
Deva Link said:
This is why aftermarket HIDs etc are illegal. Doesn't matter even if you did fit the levelling and washing - you can't legalise something that wasn't fitted when the car left the factory.
But they'll still pass an MOT so long as the beam pattern is correct and they're behind the OEM glass with E-marks.
At the moment they will. Doesn't mean they're legal though. They should be picked up with the 2012 MOT changes.

VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Saturday 22nd January 2011
quotequote all
Deva Link said:
VeeFour said:
Deva Link said:
This is why aftermarket HIDs etc are illegal. Doesn't matter even if you did fit the levelling and washing - you can't legalise something that wasn't fitted when the car left the factory.
But they'll still pass an MOT so long as the beam pattern is correct and they're behind the OEM glass with E-marks.
At the moment they will. Doesn't mean they're legal though. They should be picked up with the 2012 MOT changes.
Not all of them will be picked up.

MOT Changes said:
HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers.
Mrs. VeeFour's car will pass - it has self levelling suspension, an adjuster and washers.

HereBeMonsters

14,180 posts

181 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
VeeFour said:
MOT Changes said:
HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers.
Where did you get that copy? Grammar and punctuation failures and colloquialisms abound. Or did you just pen it yourself?

VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Just found it referenced on several forums when I googled.

Didn't check the grammar etc, but it fits closely with my interpretation of what is proposed.

If you have the appropriate leveling, washers and E marked lenses, I can't see how a tester can fail a vehicle.

We will see in September 2012.

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
confused

Xenons don't have in car beam adjusters - They're self levelling! (hence the suspension level sensors)

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Alice Cupra said:
According to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regul...

Lamps to show a steady light
13.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-
(a) a direction indicator;
(b) a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
( c) a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d) a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e) a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f) lamps forming part of a traffic sign.


So I would think not legal, unless fitted to a police vehicle.
So we're all going to report the Traffic Wombles, then, are we...? ..hehe

VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
blank said:
confused

Xenons don't have in car beam adjusters - They're self levelling! (hence the suspension level sensors)
Pass.

Her car has Boge self-levelling suspension and a beam adjuster - and could be had from the factory with HIDs behind the same lens.

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
VeeFour said:
blank said:
confused

Xenons don't have in car beam adjusters - They're self levelling! (hence the suspension level sensors)
Pass.

Her car has Boge self-levelling suspension and a beam adjuster - and could be had from the factory with HIDs behind the same lens.
Every car (well I've never seen a recent one that doesn't) with halogen lamps has a switch for setting your beam level for if you've got luggage etc. in the back.

Vehicles with xenons have suspension level sensors, so they control it automatically and the driver has no control of the headlamp level (they can usually be adjusted through the manufacturer's software though). They don't necessarily have self levelling suspension.

But the main point is that the MOT "quote" above sounds like bks because it says xenon equipped vehicles have in car beam adjusters - Which they don't.

Edited by blank on Sunday 23 January 12:36

Wadeski

8,132 posts

212 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
I've never, ever been dazzled by anyones foglights. On the other hand, the high-level HIDs fitted to range rovers and especially the new Lexus 4x4 are incredibly dangerous. If one pulls up behind you and you are in a low-slung car, you get temporarily blinded by looking in any of your mirrors.

Nice one car manufacturers!

Edited by Wadeski on Sunday 23 January 12:41

Deva Link

26,934 posts

244 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
VeeFour said:
blank said:
confused

Xenons don't have in car beam adjusters - They're self levelling! (hence the suspension level sensors)
Pass.

Her car has Boge self-levelling suspension and a beam adjuster - and could be had from the factory with HIDs behind the same lens.
Fail.

It's the lamps which are self-leveling, not the suspension.

Of course some cars will slip through though.

A "clever" tester might fail it on having manual adjustment with Xenons.

T5R+

1,225 posts

208 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
And are we sure that is is not some form of official vehicle spreading the "speed kills" mantra rage

Even if it is some do-gooder, what is the issue? You do your thing and let them do theirs. smokin

plasticpig

12,932 posts

224 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Alice Cupra said:
According to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regul...

Lamps to show a steady light
13.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-
(a) a direction indicator;
(b) a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
( c) a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d) a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e) a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f) lamps forming part of a traffic sign.


So I would think not legal, unless fitted to a police vehicle.

Edited by Alice Cupra on Saturday 22 January 20:34
A LED is a diode and not a lamp though....

VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Deva Link said:
VeeFour said:
blank said:
confused

Xenons don't have in car beam adjusters - They're self levelling! (hence the suspension level sensors)
Pass.

Her car has Boge self-levelling suspension and a beam adjuster - and could be had from the factory with HIDs behind the same lens.
Fail.

It's the lamps which are self-leveling, not the suspension.

Of course some cars will slip through though.

A "clever" tester might fail it on having manual adjustment with Xenons.
It's all too complex for me - but I believed that, under current legislation, self-levelling suspension was enough to pass the C&U regulations for OEM HID lamps.

I do find it odd to have both self-levelling suspension and a manual adjuster, but assumed that was usual fitment.

Hitch78

6,100 posts

193 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
RacerMDR said:
has anyone else seen anyone use one ? (other than the BIB or TOP Gear)

it was really distracting - as it was the first time i'd seen one I really want to read it......

I was so busy being disgusted I didn't notice the type of car or age etc

I think I need one for 'educational' purposes
I saw one in a Range Rover when I was back at Christmas - read 'Merry Christmas'.

Asterix

24,438 posts

227 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Long time back, a mate of mine had a Merc Cabriolet that had rear seat headrests that you could raise and lower at the touch of a button - the model escapes me. He kept them down and if someone decided to tail gate him he'd raise them. The left one had 'fk' stuck on it, the right 'Off!'

Rather than piss anyone off, he usually got a thumbs up with people laughing lots.

Alice Cupra

1,032 posts

236 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
plasticpig said:
Alice Cupra said:
According to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regul...

Lamps to show a steady light
13.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-
(a) a direction indicator;
(b) a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
( c) a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d) a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e) a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f) lamps forming part of a traffic sign.


So I would think not legal, unless fitted to a police vehicle.

Edited by Alice Cupra on Saturday 22 January 20:34
A LED is a diode and not a lamp though....
Whilst factually correct, I think you'd have a hard time convincing magistrates / judges that:

RVLR 1989 S11 said:
Colour of light shown by lamps and reflectors

11.—(1) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing a red light to the front, except- <snip - loads of exceptions>
but it's a diode not a lamp, so I can have red ones at the front...... smile

And surely....

RVLR 1989 S14 said:
Filament lamps

14.—(1) Where a motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 or any trailer manufactured on or after 1st October 1985 is equipped with any lamp of a type that is required by any Schedule to these Regulations to be marked with an approval mark, no filament lamp other than a filament lamp referred to in the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations in–

(a)regulation 4 and Schedule 2, items 2 or 2A, 8, 20, 37 or 37A; or

(b)regulation 5 and Schedule 4, item 18,

shall be fitted to any such lamp.
...means that all means of externally visible illumination by LED are illegal anyway? Including rear LED brake lights, which are currently available on a number of cars, and LED DRLsm etc? confused

Which bring us in a neat circle back to EU Type Approval. Which these signs presumably don't have, and therefore remain illegal?


<Sits down for a cuppa to let brain recover> hehe


Edited by Alice Cupra on Sunday 23 January 16:22

Flintstone

8,644 posts

246 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
LMC said:
JC said at the time it wouldn't let you display oscenities tho...
New word! Obscenities that oscillate biggrin

Liquid Knight

15,754 posts

182 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
pacman1 said:
The concept is no different to a bumper sticker. But if it can be proved to be a dangerous distraction to other motorists, it'll get banned soon enough.
Here's hoping, anyway.
If the offending driver is close enough to read the message then they'd get CD10 for tailgating. cop




http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Digital-Car-Sign-LED-lig...


I'd rig one up to some reverse sensors so it only comes on if a car is too close. Friendly message like "Hope you're insurance is as good as my brakes" for example.

Better still mount a projector on the ceiling of the car so if a car get too close an image appears on the rear screen. A nice picture of the "Grim Reaper" or a pair of tits would distract the tailgater enough I think. scratchchin

rottie102

3,993 posts

183 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Liquid Knight said:
pacman1 said:
The concept is no different to a bumper sticker. But if it can be proved to be a dangerous distraction to other motorists, it'll get banned soon enough.
Here's hoping, anyway.
I'd rig one up to some reverse sensors so it only comes on if a car is too close. Friendly message like "Hope you're insurance is as good as my brakes" for example.

Better still mount a projector on the ceiling of the car so if a car get too close an image appears on the rear screen. A nice picture of the "Grim Reaper" or a pair of tits would distract the tailgater enough I think. scratchchin
I would think two 100W halogen lights facing the tailgater would be more useful...