2016 Prius MPG from cold start

[raspy]

Just wanted to share, in case it helps inform others.

I left my house one afternoon last week and had to drive for a client meeting, lots of 20mph zones and speed bumps on my way into the centre of London.

The car hadn't been driven since the night before, so the engine was cold, although the battery was mostly full. I normally get 60-65mpg at the moment, but was surprised to get 77.8mpg.

Probably because I didn't have the heating on, since I was wearing quite a few layers.

[AmitG]

Do you have the 15 inch wheels or the 17 inch?

I have the 17 inch wheels (Excel version) and in similar circumstances I get about 70mpg. Average economy, in all conditions, is running at about 63mpg.

I have to say, it's a really impressive car. Very happy with mine.

[raspy]

AmitG said:

Do you have the 15 inch wheels or the 17 inch?

I have the 17 inch wheels (Excel version) and in similar circumstances I get about 70mpg. Average economy, in all conditions, is running at about 63mpg.

I have to say, it's a really impressive car. Very happy with mine.

15 inch wheels (yay, no congestion charge!) - Business Edition and I'm looking forward to 80+ once the weather gets warmer next year. Yeah, it's significantly superior to the previous version of the Prius. Actually goes round bends reasonably well even on 15s!

[Otispunkmeyer]

So is this the standard hybrid Prius? Not the plugin? Those are very good numbers if so. Are they born out when you calculate from the fill up?

They made some good efficiency improvements on the ICE in that car as well, looks like it paid off.

[AmitG]

In my case it's the standard Prius, not the plug-in. Real-world numbers measured brim to brim, and with no attempt at eco-driving

According to the various news articles they made loads of improvements over the old Prius. It's about 100kg lighter for a start. The shape is much more aerodynamic. The ICE has been improved; apparently it's now 40% thermal efficiency. EV mode now works up to 70mph. I can cruise on the motorway in EV mode And the motor/generators can recover much more energy when decelerating.

So lots of little things.

Interestingly, the ICE still doesn't have direct injection, and the batteries are still NiMH.

I know Priuses (Prii?) are seen as a bit boring but the engineering underneath is fascinating.

[Chris-S]

Interesting to see that, thank you. Just got a C350e and on a trip out today, heating on the whole time, A/C at times, lights, 21 miles of urban and extra urban, cold start too, saw 82.9mpg. Used most of a charge so add maybe 5kWh to that. Wasn't trying to be economical, just driving normally to the traffic with a few short squirts when appropriate. It only has 160 miles on the clock so will no doubt get better as it frees off.

We had hoped it would work well for our mostly short trips - based on results so far, it certainly looks encouraging.

Don't know what the Prius is like but the Merc is proper Jeckle & Hyde if you play with the 'Dynamics' switch. Really wanted a Tesla but couldn't bring myself to stretch that far. The Merc is taking my mind off that

These things really are stuffed full of clever aren't they. We did try a Lexus GS450h and a BMW330e before settling on the C350e. All good cars in their own ways, we just preferred the Merc.

[modeller]

Chris-S said:

Interesting to see that, thank you. Just got a C350e and on a trip out today, heating on the whole time, A/C at times, lights, 21 miles of urban and extra urban, cold start too, saw 82.9mpg. Used most of a charge so add maybe 5kWh to that. Wasn't trying to be economical, just driving normally to the traffic with a few short squirts when appropriate. It only has 160 miles on the clock so will no doubt get better as it frees off.

We had hoped it would work well for our mostly short trips - based on results so far, it certainly looks encouraging.

Don't know what the Prius is like but the Merc is proper Jeckle & Hyde if you play with the 'Dynamics' switch. Really wanted a Tesla but couldn't bring myself to stretch that far. The Merc is taking my mind off that

These things really are stuffed full of clever aren't they. We did try a Lexus GS450h and a BMW330e before settling on the C350e. All good cars in their own ways, we just preferred the Merc.

5kWh that's cheating! An i3 would have done all 21 miles on battery :-)

[Otispunkmeyer]

AmitG said:

In my case it's the standard Prius, not the plug-in. Real-world numbers measured brim to brim, and with no attempt at eco-driving

According to the various news articles they made loads of improvements over the old Prius. It's about 100kg lighter for a start. The shape is much more aerodynamic. The ICE has been improved; apparently it's now 40% thermal efficiency. EV mode now works up to 70mph. I can cruise on the motorway in EV mode And the motor/generators can recover much more energy when decelerating.

So lots of little things.

Interestingly, the ICE still doesn't have direct injection, and the batteries are still NiMH.

I know Priuses (Prii?) are seen as a bit boring but the engineering underneath is fascinating.

Interesting on the DI. Though I suppose for gasoline engines it's not really the be all and end all. Port fuelling still has its place and is often still the best option due to having much extra time and energy for mixing, which is good for particulate emissions. DI gasoline particulates can be higher and the thing hurting HCCI future is also particulates (as well as controlling when it all goes bang) where they often found particulates got worse, not better, than existing port fuelled and DI solution.

It'll be an Atkinson cycle engine in the Prius (as usual) and they're pretty anaemic on torque, but it doesn't matter when you can fill torque with a set of electric motors.

And yes, extremely interesting bits of engineering these cars, it's one of the primary reasons I would like to have one at some point even though they are not very PH.

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 26th December 16:47

[raspy]

Otispunkmeyer said:

So is this the standard hybrid Prius? Not the plugin? Those are very good numbers if so. Are they born out when you calculate from the fill up?

They made some good efficiency improvements on the ICE in that car as well, looks like it paid off.

Yes, standard Prius, with about 3,000 miles since new. I find the computer in the car overstates fuel economy by around 10% vs what figures I get when I calculate brim to brim by hand.

My last tank which was mostly motorway miles, with quite a lot of ICE usage due to overtaking of lorries etc, and that was 55mpg hand calculated figures. I used to have a Type-R and looked forward to the open road and getting up to near 8,000 rpm.

Now I look forward to slow moving traffic to watch my MPG rise as I stay in EV mode. How times have changed

[raspy]

ADAC's testing of real world emissions is really interesting. They rank the Prius above the Leaf, but below the i3!

And the latest diesels perform badly.

I suggest using Google Translate to read the report

https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-im-einsatz/mo...

[Otispunkmeyer]

I guess whilst a leaf doesn't emit locally, they'll be counting back to the source of the leccy, which in germany, because they shut down their nukes, means coal power.

I3 rex has a little 2 cylinder motorbike engine so easily better on emissions than a 1.8.

[Otispunkmeyer]

raspy said:

Yes, standard Prius, with about 3,000 miles since new. I find the computer in the car overstates fuel economy by around 10% vs what figures I get when I calculate brim to brim by hand.

My last tank which was mostly motorway miles, with quite a lot of ICE usage due to overtaking of lorries etc, and that was 55mpg hand calculated figures. I used to have a Type-R and looked forward to the open road and getting up to near 8,000 rpm.

Now I look forward to slow moving traffic to watch my MPG rise as I stay in EV mode. How times have changed

55 on a run is good, perhaps a little lower than I thought, but not by much.

For reference the best I ever got out of my 1.8 civic was a proper 50 mpg on a trip to Scotland. A one off though, usually it gives about 45 on a run and a 35 AVG.

My newer car, a new Mazda 3, is a 40 AVG but you can quite easily get up to the 50 mark on long runs.

So the Prius is a good 10% better there. Interesting that on occasion, the two cars I have with 10 years in age difference, give similar economy.

[raspy]

Otispunkmeyer said:

55 on a run is good, perhaps a little lower than I thought, but not by much.

For reference the best I ever got out of my 1.8 civic was a proper 50 mpg on a trip to Scotland. A one off though, usually it gives about 45 on a run and a 35 AVG.

My newer car, a new Mazda 3, is a 40 AVG but you can quite easily get up to the 50 mark on long runs.

So the Prius is a good 10% better there. Interesting that on occasion, the two cars I have with 10 years in age difference, give similar economy.

I tend to drive fairly rapidly on the motorway, and leave it in power mode, so it would be more likely to use ICE. I have noticed if you are gentle on the gas pedal, it can dip into EV mode even up to 74mph. If you do mostly motorway driving, the Prius does not make sense at all.

It's best for congested cities like London, imho. I've read reports of US owners of the Gen 4 Prius getting 800+ miles out of a 43 litre tank, and I suspect it's a combination of driving in warm places like Southern California along with with very gentle use of the gas pedal.

[saaby93]

raspy said:

ADAC's testing of real world emissions is really interesting. They rank the Prius above the Leaf, but below the i3!

And the latest diesels perform badly.

I suggest using Google Translate to read the report

https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-im-einsatz/mo...

translator said:

The results in detail:

ADAC EcoTest results

Click on the diagram to enlarge it.

All vehicle models that achieve a four- or five-star result in the strict EcoTest procedure have had to overcome another hurdle since September: they are also being subjected to a pollutant measurement on the road for the first time. Thus only vehicles receive an ADAC recommendation, which is relatively clean also in the real traffic. Test vehicle-optimized vehicles can thus be identified and devalued. Pleasing: Of the vehicles tested so far with a four- or five-star rating, they were also environmentally friendly in real operation.

raspy said:

Yes, standard Prius, with about 3,000 miles since new. I find the computer in the car overstates fuel economy by around 10% vs what figures I get when I calculate brim to brim by hand.

When you calculate mpg how do you measure distance? The car can read about 10% extra if youre not careful

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 27th December 22:42

[raspy]

saaby93 said:

When you calculate mpg how do you measure distance? The car can read about 10% extra if youre not careful

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 27th December 22:42

I reset one of the trip computers on the dashboard to zero when I fill up. Next time I fill up, I refer to that number for distance travelled.

[Chris-S]

modeller said:

5kWh that's cheating! An i3 would have done all 21 miles on battery :-)

I don't doubt that at all, and honestly, I'd be even happier if the C350e had a bit more EV only range. But, that said, so far it suits our typical driving needs exceptionally well, its a very nice place to be sat and to our eyes it looks nice too.

I don't mean to give offence to those who like it, but I can't get on with the looks of the I3 inside or out.

The second option on the shopping list was an XE-S (3.0 supercharged V6) so I'm going to take some comfort in having the C350e despite that fact it isn't a pure EV nor does it have a great EV only range.

Ive seen some pretty rabid criticism of PHEVs so far. Honestly, I don't really get why some folk have to be quite so aggressive about choices others make at times. Yes, in an ideal world we'd all be driving pure EVs with 500 mile ranges powered by renewable sources but this world is far from ideal. I absolutely accept that a PHEV is mostly a tax dodging exercise in many ways, some of the offerings are way more blatant about it than others. BUT, even so, they do help, even if only a little bit.

Most of us don't NEED nice cars, quite a few probably don't even NEED one at all, but we still have an element of choice in our lives. Thankfully. Might be bad for the planet, but so is overpopulation and nobody is talking about that pachyderm in the parlour.

[saaby93]

Found this sniff petrol article

http://sniffpetrol.com/2016/04/01/a-week-with-a-to...

Seems to have it nailed if you ignore references to Canada

[Super Slo Mo]

raspy said:

I tend to drive fairly rapidly on the motorway, and leave it in power mode, so it would be more likely to use ICE. I have noticed if you are gentle on the gas pedal, it can dip into EV mode even up to 74mph. If you do mostly motorway driving, the Prius does not make sense at all.

I don't really agree, although my car is the older technology (it's an Auris). Driven in exactly the same way on the motorway as my previous car (Skoda 170 TDI), it's more economical. Admittedly, if I start driving quite fast, economy plummets quickly, as did the diesel, but I just sit on cruise at 70.

I spend most of my life on the motorway, if anything, my car is worse in town than on the motorway, although it really depends on traffic and route.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Prius Prime starting to go on sale. Be interesting to see how people get on with it. Given it looks substantially different, it's almost an admission that they made a bit of a dog's breakfast of it the first time. It looks a lot better, especially at the back.

[AmitG]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Prius Prime starting to go on sale. Be interesting to see how people get on with it. Given it looks substantially different, it's almost an admission that they made a bit of a dog's breakfast of it the first time. It looks a lot better, especially at the back.

I reckon they also wanted to make the Prime look different from the normal model. If you're buying a niche car, you want people to know about it...

Mind you, I really like the looks of the normal model

My local dealer is trying to get me interested in a Prime. I doubt I will change unless the deal is sensational, but you never know. I need to see it first.