991 GT3 Gen 2

[993AL]

jimmyslr said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not sure about that. I think there is quite some ill will generated from the more recent supply, demand and selection issues. Many of is find instant "overs" on a production car unseemly. You don't just see it on pistonheads, but on all the fora, magazines and even when chatting to car types. When it's long term owners of Porsche and Porsche enthusiasts that you're cheesing off that's a high risk strategy.

I think Porsche have gained some market cache from the halo effect of the GT3/4/RS/R but they've created some collateral damage. Time will tell how that pans out and whether one outweighs the other. Probably their strategy is a good one for long term value creation for Porsche but they've sacrificed customers like me along the way.

This trend is helping companies like mclaren. I'm seriously considering a 570 and there are many like me.

You're spot on, I made the move to McLaren for the very reasons that you state.

[av185]

jimmyslr said:

This trend is helping companies like mclaren. I'm seriously considering a 570 and there are many like me.

Edited by jimmyslr on Sunday 18th December 11:14

I am sure up and coming Ferrari bashing Mclaren have gained a few sales from aggrieved Porsche customers but these would probably be relatively insignificant...... from punters thinking of leaving Porsche anyway for any number of reasons.

570........nice package at the money but again, and even ignoring the likely eye watering depreciation killer which we won't go into here, can it really seriously compete with the Porsche beard/ diehards/ enthusiasts essential must haves attractions of Porsche GTs NA and 'manuel'.

Nah.

[hunter 66]

A Lot more than they realise here in the UK ........ one of the biggest Porsche afficianados I know ......... owns lots of the best most desirable cars made by the Marque .... has moved to a Macca .... just bored with the procedure ...
I always now turn up at my OPC in a Ferrari now ........ to get parts etc
Even the race Ferrari has Porsche crested seats !!!!

Edited by hunter 66 on Sunday 18th December 12:06

[jimmyslr]

av185 said:

I am sure up and coming Ferrari bashing Mclaren have gained a few sales from aggrieved Porsche customers but these would probably be relatively insignificant...... from punters thinking of leaving Porsche anyway for any number of reasons.

570........nice package at the money but again, and even ignoring the likely eye watering depreciation killer which we won't go into here, can it really seriously compete with the Porsche beard/ diehards/ enthusiasts essential must haves attractions of Porsche GTs NA and 'manuel'.

Nah.

I see your point. However, the porsche buyer I'm thinking of is the gt4, Gt3, RS or R buyer. There are a lot of us on this forum. The price point for those is 100-150 (ish) new. That opens up various mclaren propositions, also the junior ferraris, v12v, lambos etc. You can get manuals and you can get tech-fests across that range.

I agree that this is not the case with the average 911 C2, C4, owner, nor the other models in the range.

I've had 964RS, 993RS, 997GT3, Cup car but I couldn't get a 991 GT3 and my chances of a RS or R were laughable. That feels a bit odd and when I get the brush off from Porsche salesman I don't feel the love. I think there are many of us like that. So, whilst a GT3 or RS would have been the obvious purchase for many of us we are now casting our mental net wider.

Mclaren just sold their 10,000th car. What's the betting on the proportion of mclaren owners who previously owned a Porsche and had an interest or prior ownership of one of the more driver centric Porsche? I reckon that proportion is very high.

[isaldiri]

Mclaren aren't generally going to have cars that command the same sort of overs as the GT Porsches. While that remains I am very certain that the demand for GT cars stays strong.

[hornbaek]

We are living (have lived) in extraordinary times with zero interest rates which has made a 150 - 200k car more obtainable for a wider audience. Once that changes normality will prevail and it will turn to a buyers market again (it already has for most luxury brands). It is not that long ago that Porsche could not sell the 918, Carrera GT or for that sake the 959 for love nor money. These times will come again and i think that manufacturers are just reaping the last of the summer wine before it all turns a bit tougher out there.

[Cheib]

You'd hope there is a decent chance of higher volumes with this car

- There are a lot of people who have a decent Porsche buying history who haven't been able to get an allocation for 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS, R, GT4 or even the Boxster Spyder. There's only so long people are going to take a "custard pie" without voting with their feet and taking their business elsewhere.

- Porsche's parent is strapped for cash so maybe economics will win over


I have my name down but realise the chances of getting a car are slim to none. I can accept that if I don't see 20 cars in the classifieds within three months of the first cars being delivered. If there are it sends a pretty fking loud message...Porsche actually don't care that much who gets the cars whether they claim to or not.

[jimmyslr]

Cheib said:

You'd hope there is a decent chance of higher volumes with this car

- There are a lot of people who have a decent Porsche buying history who haven't been able to get an allocation for 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS, R, GT4 or even the Boxster Spyder. There's only so long people are going to take a "custard pie" without voting with their feet and taking their business elsewhere.

- Porsche's parent is strapped for cash so maybe economics will win over


I have my name down but realise the chances of getting a car are slim to none. I can accept that if I don't see 20 cars in the classifieds within three months of the first cars being delivered. If there are it sends a pretty fking loud message...Porsche actually don't care that much who gets the cars whether they claim to or not.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Well put.

[Geoff39GL]

Well I think all the points are valid and I have my name down as well but while the current economic situation continues with low interest rates, Porsche GT car volumes being well below the level of interest I cannot see any change. It is basic supply and demand and while the cars carry a premium some of those lucky enough to get a car will take advantage.
I wrote to Porsche GB regarding flipping and real enthusiasts missing out, I got a very nice reply stating it was being monitored and that Porsche would do their very best to ensure only genuine buyers were allocated cars with confirmation that my name was on the list but I would be very surprised if I get anywhere as I have only owned 8 Porsches and not all bought from the same OPC. If I am to get a new GT3 I will probably be faced with the decision to pay overs as was the case with my 991 GT3 which I will have to take a view on at the time, although more difficult now to justify having just retired.

With regard to moving away from the brand I agree many will consider but the overall cost of ownership will be considerably more if a Macca was purchased, we have to accept the ownership cost of the Porsche brand (if you can get one) is still very reasonable.

[m88ony]

Cheib said:

You'd hope there is a decent chance of higher volumes with this car

- There are a lot of people who have a decent Porsche buying history who haven't been able to get an allocation for 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS, R, GT4 or even the Boxster Spyder. There's only so long people are going to take a "custard pie" without voting with their feet and taking their business elsewhere.

- Porsche's parent is strapped for cash so maybe economics will win over


I have my name down but realise the chances of getting a car are slim to none. I can accept that if I don't see 20 cars in the classifieds within three months of the first cars being delivered. If there are it sends a pretty fking loud message...Porsche actually don't care that much who gets the cars whether they claim to or not.

I think Porsche do care who gets them and certainly my local OPC does. They want local buyers to purchase the halo cars as the servicing and maintenance revenues stay local. If the car gets flipped and goes to a different geography then there is no benefit to the OPC.

[Dr S]

av185 said:

570........nice package at the money but again, and even ignoring the likely eye watering depreciation killer which we won't go into here, can it really seriously compete with the Porsche beard/ diehards/ enthusiasts essential must haves attractions of Porsche GTs NA and 'manuel'.

Nah.

It can very well. If Porsche does not sell me an R then I have two options: Get a used 7.2 RS if I want manual and NA or buy a new 570 if I want PDK and outright performance

I am on the list for the upcoming T. If I don't get one of these then the brand has lost me for any new car purchase as the hassle around the R was bad enough

[isaldiri]

Dr S said:

It can very well. If Porsche does not sell me an R then I have two options: Get a used 7.2 RS if I want manual and NA or buy a new 570 if I want PDK and outright performance

Neither of which offers the chance for an instant (massive) gain once bought like the R that's the real reason for much of the mad scramble and anguished hand wringing over the recent GT cars imo...

[Cheib]

m88ony said:

Cheib said:

You'd hope there is a decent chance of higher volumes with this car

- There are a lot of people who have a decent Porsche buying history who haven't been able to get an allocation for 991.1 GT3, GT3 RS, R, GT4 or even the Boxster Spyder. There's only so long people are going to take a "custard pie" without voting with their feet and taking their business elsewhere.

- Porsche's parent is strapped for cash so maybe economics will win over


I have my name down but realise the chances of getting a car are slim to none. I can accept that if I don't see 20 cars in the classifieds within three months of the first cars being delivered. If there are it sends a pretty fking loud message...Porsche actually don't care that much who gets the cars whether they claim to or not.

I think Porsche do care who gets them and certainly my local OPC does. They want local buyers to purchase the halo cars as the servicing and maintenance revenues stay local. If the car gets flipped and goes to a different geography then there is no benefit to the OPC.

I was being slightly flippant and agree that some OPC's definitely do care....but not all as much as they protest. The sales manager in "my" OPC even cares about who he sells ex Demo/Desirable Spec cars too....he knows if he sells a car to someone 300 miles away he'll never see it again but if its someone local he knows he's got a good chance of getting it back...and is thus more likely to do a deal of some sort with a local customer.

[hondansx]

Someone said it a while back; if the GT cars depreciated like a normal car there just wouldn't be the same level of interest, anger and disappointment.

Currently getting a GT Porsche means you get one of the best cars in the world for effectively free, because you can probably run one for a year and still make money. Would there still be a queue if it depreciated like a 911 Turbo?

It would also be interesting to see the take-up if you HAD to own the car for 3 years contractually. I know it could never happen, but humour me for a second. How would people feel if they couldn't upgrade to the new GT2, next GT3 RS or a mini-918 if one came out a year later? Do people REALLY want the next GT3, or do they just want whatever's the latest/greatest/what Chris Harris is foaming about?

As much as i hate Porsche right now, i can't help but admire how they have us all dangling on strings.

[Koln-RS]

hondansx said:

Do people REALLY want the next GT3, or do they just want whatever's the latest/greatest/what Chris Harris is foaming about?
As much as i hate Porsche right now, i can't help but admire how they have us all dangling on strings.

Spot on! We live in a world of clever marketing and most consumers are lawful prey.

There will be people on here who claim they are true enthusiasts who simply want a GT3, GT4, RS, or whatever other brand of desirable car, to use and enjoy, but even they would think twice if it meant spending £130k on a depreciating asset.

And brand loyalty is very fickle. Buyers change brands for all sorts of reasons - McLaren, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini... will attract customers from Porsche because of their greater exclusivity. Porsche is very mainstream now, so they need to keep their 'halo' models sought after.

[ChrisW.]

If P have to move to turbo's on all cars, wouldn't it make sense for them to make as many special (naturally aspirated) cars as they can, whilst they can ?

Who then in retrospect would criticise them ?

And VW need the cash ....

[av185]

hondansx said:

As much as i hate Porsche right now, i can't help but admire how they have us all dangling on strings.

But presumably you would hate them less if you were offered a 991.2. GT3 build slot? Or do you hate them enough to turn a build slot down and offer it to someone who actually likes them?

Only asking.

[robgt3]

av185 said:

hondansx said:

As much as i hate Porsche right now, i can't help but admire how they have us all dangling on strings.

But presumably you would hate them less if you were offered a 991.2. GT3 build slot? Or do you hate them enough to turn a build slot down and offer it to someone who actually likes them?

Only asking.

Plus 1....

If I am to believe the latest rumour which is . 2 x model GT3 variants which will be announced at the Geneva Motor Show. One with a manual box and no rear spoiler (for the supposed purists) The second with PDK plus spoiler for the track and go faster guys. If its true what another piece of truly brilliant Porsche Marketing!
Should I be fortunate enough to be offered the chance of one or the other I would be a little undecided as there is no denying the virtues of PDK though must admit to rather enjoying the involvment of my GT4's excellent manual.

[Slickhillsy]

Sorry but there is no way Porsche would offer a 'spoiler delete' option on a GT3. Do agree with all the other offerings that have been heard but no way that.

[hondansx]

av185 said:

hondansx said:

As much as i hate Porsche right now, i can't help but admire how they have us all dangling on strings.

But presumably you would hate them less if you were offered a 991.2. GT3 build slot? Or do you hate them enough to turn a build slot down and offer it to someone who actually likes them?

Only asking.

Good question! I was actively encouraged by an OPC to leave a deposit on the new car, and i decided not to.