Has anyone put an LS engine into a 996?
Discussion
These guys have. http://www.dynotorque.co.uk/
They were doing one last year, I was allowed to take a good few pics of it, I'll try and find them over the weekend.
I was extremely sceptical of such a project at first, but had my mind changed.
They were doing one last year, I was allowed to take a good few pics of it, I'll try and find them over the weekend.
I was extremely sceptical of such a project at first, but had my mind changed.
IceBoy said:
I’m pretty sure the TV programme Fast n Loud – Gas Monkey Garage did this.
They then raced the 996 against a 997 or 991 Turbo S, owned by the owner Richard Rawlings…..makes an interesting programme and well worth a watch.
That Aaron Kaufman is a genius….imo!
IceBoy
Yep - here is an article which lists what they did. Should give you a start: http://www.gasmonkeygarage.com/behind-the-scenes-l...They then raced the 996 against a 997 or 991 Turbo S, owned by the owner Richard Rawlings…..makes an interesting programme and well worth a watch.
That Aaron Kaufman is a genius….imo!
IceBoy
(Also - Aaron has left GMG)
I once raced a 911 fitted with a Cosworth DFV V8 engine for the owner. It was a truly horrific experience as the c of G of the engine was far too high when compared to the flat 6 of the 911. I tried everything to tame the car but it was a nighmare to drive. Managing the oversteer from turn in all the way to exit was bad enough but to do it that slowly was embarressing. The rear engined configuration of the 911 works largely because the engine sits low and has a very low C of G. It's the bumble bee of the automotive world.
It maybe a great idea if you want to drag race the car, but if you want it to go round corners as well I'd think twice about it.
It maybe a great idea if you want to drag race the car, but if you want it to go round corners as well I'd think twice about it.
Clearly not one for the purists.
Crate LS engines can be had for about £9k iirc. 480hp stock (with another 50 for mere pennies).
All the adaptor plates, mounts flywheels and clutches are available off the shelf.
I've not enquired as to whether the conversion is reversible (easily) , but if it is, 500+ N/A (and bulletproof) horsepower for £12-14k seems a no brainer.
But a big Yank V8 lump in Cayman would be better, though it's probably not reversible ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SjeKSumjcRA
Crate LS engines can be had for about £9k iirc. 480hp stock (with another 50 for mere pennies).
All the adaptor plates, mounts flywheels and clutches are available off the shelf.
I've not enquired as to whether the conversion is reversible (easily) , but if it is, 500+ N/A (and bulletproof) horsepower for £12-14k seems a no brainer.
But a big Yank V8 lump in Cayman would be better, though it's probably not reversible ....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SjeKSumjcRA
LS3 Crate engine £4.8k less VAT https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=product/...
I seriously looked at this recently as I had worn the motor out in my 996 quite comprehensively over the many miles I've done.
Cost wise there was little to nothing in it between building a very good 3.7L M96 engine or fitting an LS crate motor to it (which would have had another 100bhp or so). My decisions for going the built M96 route were:
- Proven installation with excellent availability of spares off the shelf.
- I have put quite a bit of work into cooling and have the M96 at a point where regardless of speed or ambients I have no issues with cooling. It's likely no one with an LS conversion does the sustained speeds I ask of my car hence redeveloping this a second time was a concern.
- CofG remained as per originally, the 996 with it's rear engine configuration is sensitive to changes in CofG and with my measuring tape I couldn't resolve the CofG with an LS to anything close to that off the M96. Whilst the LS is the same weight or lighter than the M96 the M96 installation essentially ends halfway up the rear wheel with everything above that being plastic/composite light weight components.
- The originality aspect of it, whilst a V8 would no doubt be fun and I've raced with LS power on several occasions so know them relatively well I couldn't get out of my head that the M96 in the back of the car and I had covered some 200K miles+ without issue and it was all very much Porsche DNA.
- My car has a lot of integration from none original bits with the original Porsche electronics for additional body control, logging etc. and I'd have to do this all over again with an LS - this obviously isn't a consideration for those with more standard cars.
- I am never going to sell my 996 and plan to stick another 300K miles on it as quickly as possible I didn't want to spend £15K and suddenly realise I'd made the wrong call - I look at my 996 as cost effective transport than when all the costs are amalgamated over a year and 50K miles or so it generally costs me less than leasing a diesel BMW or similar and doing it all over again would properly upset the cost effective nature of the car for me.
- Finally the fuel burn rate was a bit of an unknown. I do big distances in my car and it has an additional tank etc. for nearly 100L of fuel capacity and a big change to this would mean an extra stop on some journeys. Whilst on paper it looks pretty close I didn't want to take the risk that paper translated to real world.
Cost wise there was little to nothing in it between building a very good 3.7L M96 engine or fitting an LS crate motor to it (which would have had another 100bhp or so). My decisions for going the built M96 route were:
- Proven installation with excellent availability of spares off the shelf.
- I have put quite a bit of work into cooling and have the M96 at a point where regardless of speed or ambients I have no issues with cooling. It's likely no one with an LS conversion does the sustained speeds I ask of my car hence redeveloping this a second time was a concern.
- CofG remained as per originally, the 996 with it's rear engine configuration is sensitive to changes in CofG and with my measuring tape I couldn't resolve the CofG with an LS to anything close to that off the M96. Whilst the LS is the same weight or lighter than the M96 the M96 installation essentially ends halfway up the rear wheel with everything above that being plastic/composite light weight components.
- The originality aspect of it, whilst a V8 would no doubt be fun and I've raced with LS power on several occasions so know them relatively well I couldn't get out of my head that the M96 in the back of the car and I had covered some 200K miles+ without issue and it was all very much Porsche DNA.
- My car has a lot of integration from none original bits with the original Porsche electronics for additional body control, logging etc. and I'd have to do this all over again with an LS - this obviously isn't a consideration for those with more standard cars.
- I am never going to sell my 996 and plan to stick another 300K miles on it as quickly as possible I didn't want to spend £15K and suddenly realise I'd made the wrong call - I look at my 996 as cost effective transport than when all the costs are amalgamated over a year and 50K miles or so it generally costs me less than leasing a diesel BMW or similar and doing it all over again would properly upset the cost effective nature of the car for me.
- Finally the fuel burn rate was a bit of an unknown. I do big distances in my car and it has an additional tank etc. for nearly 100L of fuel capacity and a big change to this would mean an extra stop on some journeys. Whilst on paper it looks pretty close I didn't want to take the risk that paper translated to real world.
You must be the guy who drives his to Africa, right? Remember reading about it - awesome!
I would also be concerned about CoG and general balance. I have a Lotus Motorsport Elise which came with a K Series and Quaife box. We then went to a Duratec and Hewland, with the weight difference negligble - a few KG. However, it took a seasons to 'fix' the handling due to the subtle difference in positioning. It's still not quite as sweet to drive as it used to be.
I would also be concerned about CoG and general balance. I have a Lotus Motorsport Elise which came with a K Series and Quaife box. We then went to a Duratec and Hewland, with the weight difference negligble - a few KG. However, it took a seasons to 'fix' the handling due to the subtle difference in positioning. It's still not quite as sweet to drive as it used to be.
Steve Rance said:
I once raced a 911 fitted with a Cosworth DFV V8 engine for the owner. It was a truly horrific experience as the c of G of the engine was far too high when compared to the flat 6 of the 911. I tried everything to tame the car but it was a nighmare to drive. Managing the oversteer from turn in all the way to exit was bad enough but to do it that slowly was embarressing. The rear engined configuration of the 911 works largely because the engine sits low and has a very low C of G. It's the bumble bee of the automotive world.
It maybe a great idea if you want to drag race the car, but if you want it to go round corners as well I'd think twice about it.
The Cosworth engine I believe is a DOHC style engine. These are big, wide, and top heavy compared to the OHV V8 engines used in Detroit cars.It maybe a great idea if you want to drag race the car, but if you want it to go round corners as well I'd think twice about it.
I remember when viewing the 4.6l V8 in my '96 Mustang GT, with its single overhead cam layout, how massive the engine was. It filled the engine bay.
When I bought a 2006 GTO with a 6.0l OHV V8 and first viewed the engine the engine was so tiny compared to the engine in the Mustang.
If one is going to put a V8 in a 996 the LS engine with its OHV heads is the way to go.
BrendonJ said:
Dynotorque look good, I'll give them a call, thankyou
Hi Brendon. Craig is currently building my LSM3. He's very very good.The 996 he built belongs to my friend Angus and you can find pics and videos on Dynotorque's facebook. It's an excellent proposition in my opinion, but I am biased! Haha.
Slippydiff said:
No concrete figures, but those who've carried out the conversion seem to infer the LS lump is lighter than the equivalent flat six that's been removed.
Even with no overhead cams, there's a lot of weight above the axle line compared the flat 6 box.
One thing's for sure though, the flat 6 sure isn't a looker!
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