991.2 GT3 - Colours. Spec. Q+A. etc etc..

[Sierra Mike]

Fokker said:

I'll have a 911R at 200k please

I'm thinking of buying one for the US. A delivery miles car can be had for sub $350k with cars available at sub $330k but cars are sticking at that level. MSRP spec'd was circa $230k. Once FX improves post-March next year I think a 911R could be had for sub £200k. With current UK prices at circa £380k, I'll probably take the plunge in the US.

[RSVP911]

Sierra Mike said:

Fokker said:

I'll have a 911R at 200k please

I'm thinking of buying one for the US. A delivery miles car can be had for sub $350k with cars available at sub $330k but cars are sticking at that level. MSRP spec'd was circa $230k. Once FX improves post-March next year I think a 911R could be had for sub £200k. With current UK prices at circa £380k, I'll probably take the plunge in the US.

Hi S - what makes you think FX will improve post March next year - I doubt it - if anything I think the reverse might happen

[Sierra Mike]

RSVP911 said:

Hi S - what makes you think FX will improve post March next year - I doubt it - if anything I think the reverse might happen

If Brexit occurs, the pound will sink initially but probably recover in the long term. If Brexit is shut down, the pound will strengthen immediately. Either scenario will happen in March or some time thereafter. I also think we’ll see the pound weaken further ahead of March.

In essence, once there’s certainty either way, I believe the pound will strengthen in the near/long term depending on what happens.

Just my opinion however I would really like to buy my 911R sooner rather than later.

[browngt3]

Sierra Mike said:

RSVP911 said:

Hi S - what makes you think FX will improve post March next year - I doubt it - if anything I think the reverse might happen

If Brexit occurs, the pound will sink initially but probably recover in the long term. If Brexit is shut down, the pound will strengthen immediately. Either scenario will happen in March or some time thereafter. I also think we’ll see the pound weaken further ahead of March.

In essence, once there’s certainty either way, I believe the pound will strengthen in the near/long term depending on what happens.

Just my opinion however I would really like to buy my 911R sooner rather than later.

Agree with your comments about the pound.

However, if 911R prices stay at that level in the US we will see a number of imports. I'm guessing this will force prices up and balance things out somewhat. Better get in there quick then!

[Koln-RS]

Although US prices often look attractive, unless you can get the concessionary 5% vat approval, the import, duty and shipping costs seldom make it viable, in my experience.

[Sierra Mike]

Koln-RS said:

Although US prices often look attractive, unless you can get the concessionary 5% vat approval, the import, duty and shipping costs seldom make it viable, in my experience.

I’m UK/US dual resident so would keep the car in the US.

I think 911R values have taken a hit because of people’s perception of the 991.2 GT3 Touring being similar but it’s not at all. However, it suits my purpose in suppressing 911R values so I’m not going to complain.

[Jim1556]

If Brexit is shutdown, there'll be riots! I still find it hard to stomach some of the 'elitist's' attempts to derail it...

[Sierra Mike]

browngt3 said:

Agree with your comments about the pound.

However, if 911R prices stay at that level in the US we will see a number of imports. I'm guessing this will force prices up and balance things out somewhat. Better get in there quick then!

I don’t think many cars will be imported from the US and prices are still coming down. Another 10% reduction will see them at sub $300k. I don’t know how many but the US got a lot of cars. No issues getting a 911.2 GT3 allocation there either and many with PTS.

The U.K. and US markets are different in a lot of ways so what’s happening there is not necessarily and indication of what might happen here.

[Geneve]

Sierra Mike said:

I think 911R values have taken a hit because of people’s perception of the 991.2 GT3 Touring being similar but it’s not at all.

Chris Harris has had both and reckons the 'Touring' is better than the 'R'.

Of course opinions may vary, but very many people will question the merits of paying £300k++ for an R, when a Touring is £200k++

However, I don't see 'R' prices dropping that much further in the UK, unless we have a significant economic upset - in which case it will all be relative.

Edited by Geneve on Tuesday 19th June 11:39

[Fokker]

Well spec'd Yellow GT3 for sale at Leeds OPC for £169k.
Prices are definitley on the decline

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

[Sierra Mike]

Geneve said:

Chris Harris has had both and reckons the 'Touring' is better than the 'R'.

Of course opinions may vary, but very many people will question the merits of paying £300k++ for an R, when a Touring is £200k++

However, I don't see 'R' prices dropping that much further in the UK, unless we have a significant economic upset - in which case it will all be relative.

Of course, opinions are subjective and can vary considerably, however, there's no denying facts. The 911R is a 991.1 GT3 RS Touring meaning that it has a magnesium roof, carbon fibre bonnet and front bumper, a titanium sports exhaust, polycarbonate rear and side windows and, of course, the optional single mass flywheel. This is a restatement of a post I made replying to you earlier this month.

Chris Harris may believe that one is better than the other, and that's merely his opinion, however, it is a fact that the 911R and 991.2 GT3 Touring are fundamentally very different cars. If Porsche produces a 991.2 GT3 RS Touring, that will be something of a similar ilk to the 911R.

It seems to me that in the UK Touring prices are inflated by 911R values and yet in the US 911R values are coming down because of the Touring. In summary, it's a great time to be selling a Touring in the UK and buying a 911R in the US

[Robbo66]

But you're not buying an R as such, you're buying a Porsche 'Bond' that has peaked and is falling.

Unless you're seriously wealthy and don't care about losing £10's of thousands driving it, of course, buy now.

However these have a long way further to go IMV.

I for one am not prepared to have £300k + wrapped up in a 'Bond' for 10 years, trusting Porsche don't issue another 'Bond' in the mean time.

[Cheib]

Sierra Mike said:

Of course, opinions are subjective and can vary considerably, however, there's no denying facts. The 911R is a 991.1 GT3 RS Touring meaning that it has a magnesium roof, carbon fibre bonnet and front bumper, a titanium sports exhaust, polycarbonate rear and side windows and, of course, the optional single mass flywheel. This is a restatement of a post I made replying to you earlier this month.

Chris Harris may believe that one is better than the other, and that's merely his opinion, however, it is a fact that the 911R and 991.2 GT3 Touring are fundamentally very different cars. If Porsche produces a 991.2 GT3 RS Touring, that will be something of a similar ilk to the 911R.

It seems to me that in the UK Touring prices are inflated by 911R values and yet in the US 911R values are coming down because of the Touring. In summary, it's a great time to be selling a Touring in the UK and buying a 911R in the US

Sounds like a very good summary!

With a (very) limited edition car like the R it's totally about what the owners want to do....if they're all in "strong" hands they
won't come down in price. If there are only ever two or three on the market and owners are patient prices won't go very far at all. Prices in the US are lower because there are so many more cars over there and seemingly 10 to 20 cars for sale at any one time.

With cars like the 997 Sport Classic fetching somewhere in the £250k to £300k range and 997 Speedster's a bit more than that (I think) I think you can make a good argument the R is worth more than them. That said the price of those two cars is bonkers to me....much more so than R prices!

[mc_blue]

Fokker said:

Well spec'd Yellow GT3 for sale at Leeds OPC for £169k.
Prices are definitley on the decline

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

This is a good spec car indeed.

[Porsche911R]

mc_blue said:

Fokker said:

Well spec'd Yellow GT3 for sale at Leeds OPC for £169k.
Prices are definitley on the decline

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

This is a good spec car indeed.

the cars are very miles sensitive that has 2.6k miles and hence the price, it's that simple, owner prob now has an RS and gave it back cheap to secure an RS, so dealer adds £10k/£15k and knocks it out.
Buy cheap sell cheap if the margin is the same.

makes the £145k 991.1 below that look very expensive now.

For OPC's to now have 25 new GT3's goes to show some thing I will not print in public lol

Manuals not going up in 2nd hand number though still only 9, I guess people who wanted manual WANTED the car. any one with a PDK GT3 would want a RS it's a no brainer to swap at list price if offered.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 19th June 20:11

[Fokker]

Porsche911R said:

the cars are very miles sensitive that has 2.6k miles and hence the price, it's that simple, owner prob now has an RS and gave it back cheap to secure an RS, so dealer adds £10k and knocks it out.

makes the £145k 991.1 below that look very expensive now.

For OPC's to now have 25 new GT3's goes to show some thing I will not print in public lol

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 19th June 20:02

£169k for a 1 owner Ultra Violet RS at Reading - albeit with no leather or lift -

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

[JulierPass]

Sierra Mike said:

Of course, opinions are subjective and can vary considerably, however, there's no denying facts. The 911R is a 991.1 GT3 RS Touring meaning that it has a magnesium roof, carbon fibre bonnet and front bumper, a titanium sports exhaust, polycarbonate rear and side windows and, of course, the optional single mass flywheel. This is a restatement of a post I made replying to you earlier this month.

Chris Harris may believe that one is better than the other, and that's merely his opinion, however, it is a fact that the 911R and 991.2 GT3 Touring are fundamentally very different cars. If Porsche produces a 991.2 GT3 RS Touring, that will be something of a similar ilk to the 911R.

It seems to me that in the UK Touring prices are inflated by 911R values and yet in the US 911R values are coming down because of the Touring. In summary, it's a great time to be selling a Touring in the UK and buying a 911R in the US

I don't think it's "fundamentally different". They are fundamentally the same in my book! I opted against buying an R because of the touring - the price difference was the main reason, and I have adopted the US attitude to the car. Why have you opted to go the other way?

[JulierPass]

Porsche911R said:

mc_blue said:

Fokker said:

Well spec'd Yellow GT3 for sale at Leeds OPC for £169k.
Prices are definitley on the decline

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/detail...

This is a good spec car indeed.

the cars are very miles sensitive that has 2.6k miles and hence the price, it's that simple, owner prob now has an RS and gave it back cheap to secure an RS, so dealer adds £10k/£15k and knocks it out.
Buy cheap sell cheap if the margin is the same.

makes the £145k 991.1 below that look very expensive now.

For OPC's to now have 25 new GT3's goes to show some thing I will not print in public lol

Manuals not going up in 2nd hand number though still only 9, I guess people who wanted manual WANTED the car. any one with a PDK GT3 would want a RS it's a no brainer to swap at list price if offered.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 19th June 20:11

If it's advertised at 169k it means they will let it go at 165k. So what that says is if you buy a delivery mileage car at 175k to 180k you are going to lose 20 grand in the first 2.5K miles (assuming you give it back to the dealer at trade price). This would explain why there are 23 for sale and they are not moving!!!

[Porsche911R]

JulierPass said:

If it's advertised at 169k it means they will let it go at 165k. So what that says is if you buy a delivery mileage car at 175k to 180k you are going to lose 20 grand in the first 2.5K miles (assuming you give it back to the dealer at trade price). This would explain why there are 23 for sale and they are not moving!!!

I doubt it will be let go at £165k, it will prob sell at full price as it's the cheapest out there and priced to sell due to getting it cheap.

Any car you trade back to dealers you loose 8 to 10%, miles or not that's dealers margin for you.
Try selling a Ferrari back to a dealer :-) it's £20k plus if you catch them on a good day and they really want your car.

None of this is shocking, it's how the market and motor trade works !

[Geneve]

Sierra Mike said:

…. the 911R and 991.2 GT3 Touring are fundamentally very different cars.

I disagree that they are fundamentally very different. I see them as fundamentally very similar.

Agree there are specification differences, but they are conceptually comparable, both great all time Porsches, and I'd be happy with either.

At current prices, I think the Touring is the better buy. However, I don't think 'R' prices will drop below £250k unless we witness a serious economic downturn, and then we will be looking at everything on the floor. A 911'R' should always be more than a 993RS, 997 Sport Classic, any Speedster, and any number of classic 911s.