991.2 GT3 - Colours. Spec. Q+A. etc etc..

991.2 GT3 - Colours. Spec. Q+A. etc etc..

Author
Discussion

Wudee

269 posts

143 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
What I mean when say hurting is that if cars don't sell at advertised values someone be it dealer or retail took a hit in comparison with what they were aiming to achieve. And if you are saying other brands are dropping like stones Porsche levels will be impacted at some point. No matter how much who own one are trying to talk up prices.

You could argue who really is hurting is Porsche who sells new GT cars in the UK for not enough profit. There clearly is room for higher prices also in comparison to the prices of new cars in other European countries. But that is a whole different topic.

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Wudee said:
party is over imv. I see a lot of relatively fresh Porsche independents taking in a lot of stock and advertising silly prices. The ones that have been around for long time still price competitively. Lot of chancers out there. I am long Porsche(s) so defo not talking my own book. But this will hurt some before end of the year.
The King Canutes will continue to shout it’s not happening, but it has and continues. It’s not the advertised price, it’s what it actually sells for. You try and take a GT car in and get a cheque from an OPC now for more than £20k overs, and SOR cars whose owners still living the 2016 dream are just sitting there. Chap I know trying to sell his .2 GT3 listed at £138 for £170 receiving £10k back over list...and that’s now. Wait until October.
No agenda here, but to buy now is pure folly. Hopefully this will push those genuine enthusiasts to drive the trinket and not treat it as a Bond.

lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Porsche911R said:
People said that about the GT4 but they are still 10k overs 3 years on, and 991.1 GT3 are still over list !
You sold yours for less than list though to the OPC

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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lemmingjames said:
You sold yours for less than list though to the OPC
Part of his "deal" to get a GT3 I think - low trade-in on the GT4 towards a used 981 Spyder secured an allocation. Not a straight sale or SOR, so a different situation.

Digga

40,204 posts

282 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
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Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
Nobody is buying mine for £160k but it was £139k and a bit....things like deviated stitching, painted vents etc can do that to the price on top of all the normal big ticket options.

Definitely not a flippers spec.....although I took Mrs Cheib out in it for the first time last night and I think she’d like me to! It’s too loud, seats are too upright (clearly disciple of the 911R school of thought on the 918 buckets) and it’s just “not very comfortable”. Oh and she thought I was being childish when revving the engine out to 7k rpm!
Funny you should say that, as my Mrs says exactly the same thing..And this is in my Spyder which she has only been in twice..She just won' t get in my GT3, and is pressurising me to sell it and get a Targa GTS instead with comfy seats...What cheek....!
Sounds familiar.

2006. That's the last time Mrs Digga has gone on a racetrack in any of my cars. Spa, in the wet, in a 110dB TVR Griffith with rock-hard, bucket seats was, I fear, the straw that broke the camel's back. hehe


Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
I've never sold a car for profit, however i've sold quite a few for what i paid for them..I'm happy if a percentage of my cars retain list come resale, but my expectations are realistic as i'm not a flipper.
I sold my GT4 back to my OPC for exactly what i paid for it to secure a GT3.Try and do that with McLaren or any other car maker you care to mention..
There are very well heeled flippers at my OPC and nothing will give me more pleasure than see their greedy plans unravelling.Only true car enthusiasts(myself included), who want GT cars to drive them should have the special GT cars in the first place IMO.
Porsche still offer relatively cheap high end motoring compared to its peers which is one of the main reasons i stick with the brand..If Porsches started to depreciate like other cars i would change tactics.I would either only buy used or i might try other brands instead..
It won't take much for me to switch to McLaren and Lotus, but until the market bombs i'll stick with Porsche.
It astounds me that so many hardly driven gen 2 GT3s are already on the market, which reiterates my view that a hell of a lot more gen 2s were sold in the UK than OPC's are letting on..

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
It astounds me that so many hardly driven gen 2 GT3s are already on the market, which reiterates my view that a hell of a lot more gen 2s were sold in the UK than OPC's are letting on..
Agreed. The DVLA figures up to Q2 2018 will be interesting to see when they come out.

v8ksn

4,711 posts

183 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
I've never sold a car for profit, however i've sold quite a few for what i paid for them..I'm happy if a percentage of my cars retain list come resale, but my expectations are realistic as i'm not a flipper.
I sold my GT4 back to my OPC for exactly what i paid for it to secure a GT3.Try and do that with McLaren or any other car maker you care to mention..
There are very well heeled flippers at my OPC and nothing will give me more pleasure than see their greedy plans unravelling. Only true car enthusiasts(myself included), who want GT cars to drive them should have the special GT cars in the first place IMO.
Porsche still offer relatively cheap high end motoring compared to its peers which is one of the main reasons i stick with the brand..If Porsches started to depreciate like other cars i would change tactics.I would either only buy used or i might try other brands instead..
It won't take much for me to switch to McLaren and Lotus, but until the market bombs i'll stick with Porsche.
It astounds me that so many hardly driven gen 2 GT3s are already on the market, which reiterates my view that a hell of a lot more gen 2s were sold in the UK than OPC's are letting on..
Spoken like a true Porsche enthusiast and fan.

I bet you had this poster on your bedroom wall as a kid...


Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
Wudee said:
party is over imv. I see a lot of relatively fresh Porsche independents taking in a lot of stock and advertising silly prices. The ones that have been around for long time still price competitively. Lot of chancers out there. I am long Porsche(s) so defo not talking my own book. But this will hurt some before end of the year.
People said that about the GT4 but they are still 10k overs 3 years on, and 991.1 GT3 are still over list !

Not sure who this will hurt, most cars are on sor and worth more than list, so it’s not hurting anyone really as people will pay £20k overs no issue, no ones getting burnt fingers !

£20k is £20k tax free and we are not even at £20k yet ! Sell today and you will net £30k no problem, that’s a world of hurt lol.

OPC have caused the issue as they have flipped most of the stock, but they are paying peanuts for the cars in part ex for RS models etc.

Only people hurting are the people who paid £190k for them and that seems very few but that’s no where near as bad as people paying 400k for the 675lt which are now trading at £260k ! Or people buying new range rovers !!

Even buying a Audi TT will cost you £20k loss and £20k in finance so £40k to run for 3 years !

So running a £130k GT3 for 3 years even if you loose £30k seems cheap.

Gt3 use to be worth 60% of the value a few years back and guess what people bought them.

So who is it hurting ?
R you do come out with some tosh smile,i have never seen a lt standard coupe at 400k apart from the full carbon version which are still holding there money.
Rs are now dropping already,the many dozens sat around unsold,what a mess its going to be.
Check the photo out little and large,many in the car park did not know what the real lightweight was.
The real bargain is a LT.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Robbo66 said:
The King Canutes will continue to shout it’s not happening, but it has and continues. It’s not the advertised price, it’s what it actually sells for. You try and take a GT car in and get a cheque from an OPC now for more than £20k overs, and SOR cars whose owners still living the 2016 dream are just sitting there. Chap I know trying to sell his .2 GT3 listed at £138 for £170 receiving £10k back over list...and that’s now. Wait until October.
No agenda here, but to buy now is pure folly. Hopefully this will push those genuine enthusiasts to drive the trinket and not treat it as a Bond.
again another nice story but flawed lol

another one of your £138k list price crazy spec cars !!

you being offered loads of £140k cars for £170k and turning them down

but when a guy you knows lets his car go for £10k over list when some 991.1 GT3 still fetch £20k over list you did not buy it lol

come on the whole thing is made up bullst.

only reason to sell to an OPC is to secure an RS, no other reason, so either you are talking bullst or your mate now has an RS.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
R you do come out with some tosh smile,i have never seen a lt standard coupe at 400k apart from the full carbon version which are still holding there money.
Rs are now dropping already,the many dozens sat around unsold,what a mess its going to be.
Check the photo out little and large,many in the car park did not know what the real lightweight was.
The real bargain is a LT.
675 LT Spider I should have said not coupe (not that I said coupe :-) ) and they were £425k at the start now £265k.

R's are dropping yes but still sell >£200k over !!! so not hurting any one who bought list lol "many dozens " !!!!

So ZERO tosh talked my me sorry to disappoint:-p

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 22 June 09:15

browngt3

1,409 posts

210 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
R you do come out with some tosh smile,i have never seen a lt standard coupe at 400k apart from the full carbon version which are still holding there money.
Rs are now dropping already,the many dozens sat around unsold,what a mess its going to be.
Check the photo out little and large,many in the car park did not know what the real lightweight was.
The real bargain is a LT.
Suspect more than a few wouldn't know it was air cooled either smile. Hardly any ac there as far as I can tell?

Cheib

23,110 posts

174 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
991.2 GT3 market is in a state of short term over supply because of flipped cars derived from...

- There are probably between 450 and 500 cars delivered to the UK. (I was told that the UK negotiated more cars for giving up PTS slots...this would seem to corroborate this). Assume 10% of these cars get flipped regardless of what OPC's do. 50 flipped cars !
- Based on the number of cars my OPC was allocated I would guess there are somewhere between 100 and 150 of each the GT2 and GT3 RS delivered to the UK in the first six months of this year. So that's somewhere between 200 and 300 RS's. I reckon at an absolute minimum you're looking at 25% of those cars being sold to people who took delivery of a 991.2 GT£ and sell it back to the OPC at list or close to. Which means a minimum of 60 or 70 flipped .2 GT3's.

I reckon those numbers are conservative but at a bare minimum there are 100 991.2 GT3's looking for a home and I reckon closer to 150 is possible eek Half of those have already found new homes I reckon given how many cars have been through JXM, Top 555, Romans etc.

BUT let's not forget at £130 to £140k it's a car with little or no competition. The fact the 991.1 GT3 still has such strong residuals tells you that these are exceptional cars at their price point. So as we say in financial markets I think it's safe to say that the intrinsic value of a 991.2 GT3 is rock solid and actually more than the RRP. We have a short term over supply issue to deal with but in time things will settle down. We may, of course, get more "flipped supply" if we get another round of GT3 RS's early next year.

Also worth remembering that in the last 12 months based on the above there have probably been close to 800 991 GT cars delivered to the UK. It's no wonder there are a lot of cars on the market!

Anyway...I bought mine to drive it and specced it as my forever carbiggrin I'll admit I feell very,very lucky to have been given an allocation and it I was one of the people who got turned down by an OPC right now I'd be feeling mightily cheesed off.

v8ksn

4,711 posts

183 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Anyone who is paying over list for a 991.1 GT3 with its chocolate engine needs their head examined.

ted 191

1,419 posts

224 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Wonder if OPC would take my Macan back at list if I promised to buy an RS ?

browngt3

1,409 posts

210 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Possibly another part of the equation is many buyers, myself included, wouldn't have considered the new car, no matter how good, if it depreciated normally. The financial hit would have been too much to justify.

This in itself creates strong demand for the GT product and would go some way to explain the continuing healthy residuals for the GT4 and 991.2. And this despite massively greater supply.

As has been stated once the flippers have worked their way through we will see prices stabilise. Maybe then we will see the cars being used a little more.

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Just remember one thing..Porsche have only one real loyalty......and that is to its Board of directors........who ultimately are only loyal to their shareholders..Just like any other corporation which is quite right IMO as long as punters understand basic business..

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
Just remember one thing..Porsche have only one real loyalty......and that is to its Board of directors........who ultimately are only loyal to their shareholders..Just like any other corporation which is quite right IMO as long as punters understand basic business..
I bet the guy who came up with the T to shift all the 991.1 base models at the end of the run got a massive bonus lol

those are the cars which will drop 40% imo




browngt3

1,409 posts

210 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I bet the guy who came up with the T to shift all the 991.1 base models at the end of the run got a massive bonus lol

those are the cars which will drop 40% imo
Depends on how many they make

isaldiri

18,407 posts

167 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Love the way people are talking about oversupply and prices falling when they are just falling from stupid levels. £280k for the 991.1RS was stupid when it first arrived, £200k for the .2 gt3 now is exactly the same thing and was never going to be sustainable. When prices start falling significantly below list then perhaps some of the angst about falling prices might start to be a bit more worthwhile.

And this is brilliant I have to say.

Taffy66 said:
I've never sold a car for profit, however i've sold quite a few for what i paid for them..I'm happy if a percentage of my cars retain list come resale, but my expectations are realistic as i'm not a flipper.
I sold my GT4 back to my OPC for exactly what i paid for it to secure a GT3.Try and do that with McLaren or any other car maker you care to mention..
There are very well heeled flippers at my OPC and nothing will give me more pleasure than see their greedy plans unravelling.Only true car enthusiasts(myself included), who want GT cars to drive them should have the special GT cars in the first place IMO.
Porsche still offer relatively cheap high end motoring compared to its peers which is one of the main reasons i stick with the brand..If Porsches started to depreciate like other cars i would change tactics.I would either only buy used or i might try other brands instead..
It won't take much for me to switch to McLaren and Lotus, but until the market bombs i'll stick with Porsche.
laugh

True enthusiast that mainly sticks with Porsche because it offers depreciation proof motoring and would switch brands the moment the residual situation changes. thumbup