I doubt i will ever own a new GT car

I doubt i will ever own a new GT car

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Discussion

jimmyslr

798 posts

272 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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To add to the theme, some folk seem to be arguing that this is normal for Porsche and the GT3. It isn't. The first incarnation of this unhappy phenomenon was the 991.1 GT3. It wasn't for the two generations of 996 GT3, nor the 996 RS, nor any of the 997 GT3 iterations, nor the respective 997 RSs. It wasn't the now uber desirable 964 RS nor 993 RS... You get the gist.

This is not normal, it's painful and tedious. I do understand that the enhanced halo effect today is potentially beneficial to the brand overall and helps shift more metal, but that strategy is being adopted at my expense and those others of you who really want a GT3, have owned such cars before and now can't wander in and buy one.

Bieldside

583 posts

198 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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I would suggest that the number who bought and flipped have ruined it for those not within the inner circle

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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What everybody on this forum will be in agreement is that 10x demand for a so called halo car aka 991.2GT3 is a recent phenomenon and driven primarily by flippers and indy retailers feeding a frenzied cheap credit environment.I had one of the very first GT4's and i still have it and i enjoy it now every bit as much as new..At no point did the thought of selling cross my mind and will keep it a long time unless i have to sell it back to my OPC to facilitate funding my hopeful new GT£...sorry GT3.
I don't put a lot of mileage on my Porsches as my business is by its nature extremely time consuming and as a result very profitable compared to my less hardworking peers allowing me to fund my lifelong love affair with Porsches. I passionately believe i'm the type of person Porsche wants to own their cars and vice versa..I always deal with my OPC's staff with respect and politeness and never ever give the impression that i'm in any way better than them because i'm simply not...I come across arrogant self important people on occasion in my business and i never entertain them as i believe trust and respect needs to be mutual...

GT3cs

1,200 posts

240 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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scrappydog said:
Taffy66 said:
Actually i totally disagree...! All retailers in all walks of life even supermarkets operate a loyalty bonus scheme to reward(entice) consumers to spend more lolly at their premises..Look at the limited production Porsche GT cars as a loyalty bonus scheme albeit on a grand scale...
Ok, I'll bite... wink

I think we all know the concept of a Reward Scheme or Loyalty Card, so you won't find me arguing that this concept doesn't work or that it's a stupid idea. Hotel reward card - yes I understand that. Airmiles - yup I get that. etc..

But the who GT-thing isn't that and hence I'm do find it surprising that people are arguing that it is.

For instance, to take the Porsche approach and apply it back to those schemes you mention:
- Airmiles; sorry sir, if you want to fly in first you will have to do the next 10 flights in coach and then we will consider you!
- Hotel; would you be happy if the Hilton asked you to book 2 nights in the Travel Lodge before letting you book the 5 star Penthouse Suite?
- Supermarket; restricted you to Bargin Buy items when you really wanted the organic/freerange items?

I always thought Porsche was the more down to earth performance & driver orientated marque compared to the flashier alternatives. However, I understand they are striving to re-invent themselves to move more up market and "exclusive" which has consequences which, probably is no surprise to most people on this forum, but it was just a bit of a wake-up call for me!

I think that milking the exclusivity card is a screwd move in the short term and serves the current gene-pool of aspirant customers, but also puzzling to people looking from the outside as loyalty schemes should not alienate new customers.
I suspect your taking his comment to literally ....

The GT - thing was obviously not set up as a loyalty scheme for high spend customers but in this recent RHD phenomenon of under supply it does make sense for dealers to use the allocations as a loyalty reward . It's exactly what I would do in the circumstances .


Jumpingjackflash

Original Poster:

589 posts

178 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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Taffy66 said:


Which came first...?.the chicken or the egg.......!
The Egg.

Cheib

23,113 posts

174 months

Sunday 2nd April 2017
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Given they are so over subscribed it feels to me like the only choice for an OPC is to prioritise people who are "good" clients....clearly in the past a lot of OPC's have got it wrong by letting cars go to flippers/speculators but if they get it right i.e. people who are good clients that actually want to drive the cars I don't see how anyone can complain about the system. What OPC's should do though is make sure they rotate the allocations i.e. people who got an R, RS, GT4 don't get a 991.2 GT3.

OPC's probably get maybe 15 GT cars annually across GT4, Spyder, GT3, RS, GT2, R or other very limited edition models etc. I doubt many OPC's have got more than 50 customers who regularly buy "normal" cars and are also enthusiasts/want to actually drive these cars. That means in theory everyone should be able to get one of these cars every three years. Simples.

Unfortunately until the car market changes I don't think you've got a hope of getting a GT car unless you buy other Porsche cars.

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Koln-RS said:
I agree with that.
The mainstream models provide the revenue - the GTs/RSs need to maintain some level of exclusivity and desirability to protect the brand value
Except they never previously were very exclusive - you couldn't give away 964RSs back in the day (my mate picked up one from a dealer for peanuts in the early 90s), ditto 996 and 997 GT3 cars, so had no real brand value in terms of exclusivity. It was only in the run up to the release of the 991.1 GT3 that it all got a bit silly.

Like I said, I don't think Porsche marketing people engineered this, I think it's just been a confluence of events and they're riding it / choosing not to do anything about it.

ETA: the only thing they can do about it is build more cars, but realistically until we have another recession and/or cheap loans disappear, this is always going to be a problem.

ETA2: I think this whole issue is felt more keenly by those of us for whom a forced induction 911 holds no interest as a new purchase. If the 991.2 were still NA I'd probably settle for a GTS instead of a GT3, but as it stands now it's basically GT3 or they won't get my new car business. So in the meantime I've got into a manual 997 GTS coupe as even at the silly money they are now, it seems like the best value if you want a driver's 911 that feels a bit special.


Edited by Mario149 on Monday 3rd April 09:49


Edited by Mario149 on Monday 3rd April 09:50

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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jimmyslr said:
To add to the theme, some folk seem to be arguing that this is normal for Porsche and the GT3. It isn't. The first incarnation of this unhappy phenomenon was the 991.1 GT3. It wasn't for the two generations of 996 GT3, nor the 996 RS, nor any of the 997 GT3 iterations, nor the respective 997 RSs. It wasn't the now uber desirable 964 RS nor 993 RS... You get the gist.

This is not normal, it's painful and tedious. I do understand that the enhanced halo effect today is potentially beneficial to the brand overall and helps shift more metal, but that strategy is being adopted at my expense and those others of you who really want a GT3, have owned such cars before and now can't wander in and buy one.
Sorry, didn't see this, think I just posted the same!

SignalGruen

630 posts

199 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Mario149 said:
ETA2: I think this whole issue is felt more keenly by those of us for whom a forced induction 911 holds no interest as a new purchase. If the 991.2 were still NA I'd probably settle for a GTS instead of a GT3, but as it stands now it's basically GT3 or they won't get my new car business. So in the meantime I've got into a manual 997 GTS coupe as even at the silly money they are now, it seems like the best value if you want a driver's 911 that feels a bit special.
Very much this. I got knocked back due to a lack of buying history. I've been on the configurator a number of times for a GTS but I can't bring myself to do it because of the turbos. I doubt a 991.1 GTS exists in my preferred spec also (i.e, manual, buckets, PCCB, non-sunroof, non-wiper) so will probably end up going for a GT4 or 997.2 GT3 instead.

hunter 66

3,888 posts

219 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Ditto , only bought 1 GT3 (996.2 ) from my OPC , although serviced there for 7 years ( and financed ) other RS Porsches bought out of OPCs .
But my main Porsche expenditure by a long way is with Porsche AG motorsport and not taken into account ....
Anyway that is life can understand ..

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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SignalGruen said:
I doubt a 991.1 GTS exists in my preferred spec....
Yup, I had this too pretty much. I had alerts for 997 and 991.1 GTSs set up with PH etc. Trying to find a manual RWD coupe in a sensible colour, no sunroof with an interior I liked and basic toys I would have specced (or that could be retrofitted as part of the deal) was almost impossible. Fortunately I got lucky.

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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hunter 66 said:
Ditto , only bought 1 GT3 (996.2 ) from my OPC , although serviced there for 7 years ( and financed ) other RS Porsches bought out of OPCs .
But my main Porsche expenditure by a long way is with Porsche AG motorsport and not taken into account ....
Anyway that is life can understand ..
I am surprised that you would not have the pick of the litter if you spend significant money at the motorsport department - would have thought that Porsche Germany wants to take care of such people / ensure they are happy

GarageQueen

2,295 posts

245 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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this histeria with getting a 'new car' slot is confusing me a bit, its almost as if people are saying they will never drive or own a GT car again........but everything will always be available on the used market so no one ever has to lose out, provided you pay for it. in some ways we should be thankful for the flippers in letting others get a go

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Really? We should thank the guys and gals making tens of thousands of pounds by speccing up a car they don't want and depriving someone of speccing their GT car how they want for list price?

I'm afraid I very strongly disagree with you! I refuse to pay overs for a car, and certainly not for one I haven't specced myself.

So

26,271 posts

221 months

GarageQueen

2,295 posts

245 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Twinfan said:
Really? We should thank the guys and gals making tens of thousands of pounds by speccing up a car they don't want and depriving someone of speccing their GT car how they want for list price?

I'm afraid I very strongly disagree with you! I refuse to pay overs for a car, and certainly not for one I haven't specced myself.
I agree its far from an ideal situation regarding who gets one but the reality is such that I wouldn't deny myself the experience of owning / driving the dream car because of it, which many seem to be doing sadly.

MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Twinfan said:
Really? We should thank the guys and gals making tens of thousands of pounds by speccing up a car they don't want and depriving someone of speccing their GT car how they want for list price?

I'm afraid I very strongly disagree with you! I refuse to pay overs for a car, and certainly not for one I haven't specced myself.
You can buy a freely spec-able slot from somebody at market value - "paying overs" is just paying market value for the car and not getting a profit baked in (in this case it is just Porsche giving somebody else some profit "risk-free [for the time being]" instead of pricing the car at full market value and improving their own profitability). If you really want the car then it should be irrelevant who makes the money Porsche or some thid-party ....

kbooker

728 posts

138 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Is this thread still rumbling along sleep.

I'd love one but wont get one so tough for me, end of.

isaldiri

18,418 posts

167 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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MDL111 said:
hunter 66 said:
Ditto , only bought 1 GT3 (996.2 ) from my OPC , although serviced there for 7 years ( and financed ) other RS Porsches bought out of OPCs .
But my main Porsche expenditure by a long way is with Porsche AG motorsport and not taken into account ....
Anyway that is life can understand ..
I am surprised that you would not have the pick of the litter if you spend significant money at the motorsport department - would have thought that Porsche Germany wants to take care of such people / ensure they are happy
Probably depends how current the motorsport cars hunter66 has and races in. Anyone racing in the current carrera cup/supercup nevermind a customer gt3 r team I'd definitely expect to be able to get a standard gt car. For things like the R possibly a bit more complicated.... I wouldn't expect the classic/historic series gets the same number of brownie points with Porsche AG though unless one gets to meet the likes of Walliser and such in those.

av185

18,434 posts

126 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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Taffy66 said:
Jumpingjackflash said:
I am being genuine in saying that if Porsche did sell me a GT3 I would be more likely to buy a Panamera or Macan etc. Obviously Porsche think the other way.


Which came first...?.the chicken or the egg.......!
Whilst different OPCs have different allocation strategies as to who gets a car, there is one thing which would guarantee someone definitely NOT getting a car and that would be to use a element of blackmail such as this.

Many have tried the line 'if you allocate me a GT build slot I will buy 3 new mainstream cars from your OPC'. redcard

Clearly the 3 new mainstream Porsches have to be bought first and even then there is no guarantee of being offered a GT car build slot.

Lifes a gamble...biggrin: