I doubt i will ever own a new GT car

[RDMcG]

Its ok...an even more special car is on the way:

[RDMcG]

[cho]

ORD said:

Quite. Pay an OPC an extra £40k for cars you dont want over a couple of years or simply pay a flipper an extra £20k for the car you actually want. No brainer.

Unless you really want a 991 Turbo, for example, buying one involves a huge waste of money. Save the money and use it to pay a flipper.

Out of interest. Why would buying a turbo be a huge waste? I understand it would be in the context of trying to get a GT car but as an ownership experience, would it lose any more than any other sports/super car?

[Mad March Taffy]

Look at it from the dealer's perspective:

You buy a new car - they make money
You flip it (ideally through them, and they make money)
You buy another new car, with a nice deposit you've just make from flipping the car - they make more money..


Or....

You buy a GT car (they make money)

You love and cherish it for 10 years before buying another car....



They want customer who buy new cars regularly, as this helps them hit targets and make money...

[Digga]

Dealer, obviously, wants to use halo cars to leverage overall sales.

However, for Porsche, I'd argue one of the attractions and USPs of GT cars previously was their ubiquity (in a good way) at track days and sheer usability. They put their money where their mouth was, on the circuit, where other brands cars - often of similar value - remained wrapped in cotton wool and polished and brought out on high days and holidays only. That is diminishing IMHO.

[dvshannow]

I have come to terms with the harsh reality that i might not ever be able to buy a new Porsche GT car at least until the crazy premiums dimish as am not prepared to play those games.

Sometimes life throws you a bad egg but having to live with a 'cooking model' aint one of them.

[ORD]

cho said:

Out of interest. Why would buying a turbo be a huge waste? I understand it would be in the context of trying to get a GT car but as an ownership experience, would it lose any more than any other sports/super car?

Waste of money if you dont want it as a car but only to help you suck up to an OPC! It will lose huge money in the first year.

[Digga]

ORD said:

Waste of money if you dont want it as a car but only to help you suck up to an OPC! It will lose huge money in the first year.

And the second, and the third...

[cypriot]

this guy has an interesting take on the whole limited car issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_UUGcJ3KOA&t=...

[PhantomPH]

Taffy66 said:

RDMcG said:

i do think there will be a correction and quite soon...this year. There are all sorts signs of a credit contraction globally which tends to precede a recession. The whole Trump rise has faded as reality sets in.........

I'm afraid i totally agree with you..! Batten down the hatches and for those of you who have a confirmed GT3.2 coming you need to cancel your order first thing tomorrow morning...;)

I don't agree at all. That is when I suspect you will see MORE money going into perceived 'limited' hard assets like these cars. If 'credit' (as you put it) becomes the issue, money finds it's way into safe places. If you had £1m and there was signs of market contraction (which again, I disagree with as I personally predict a bull market for at least another couple of years), would you put it in an investment or savings vehicle and an ACTUAL vehicle like an F40 to sit under a cover in your garage? These days, a lot of cars are the same as wines/art/etc. - safer places for your money to sit in times of uncertainty.

[shantybeater]

PhantomPH said:

I don't agree at all. That is when I suspect you will see MORE money going into perceived 'limited' hard assets like these cars. If 'credit' (as you put it) becomes the issue, money finds it's way into safe places. If you had £1m and there was signs of market contraction (which again, I disagree with as I personally predict a bull market for at least another couple of years), would you put it in an investment or savings vehicle and an ACTUAL vehicle like an F40 to sit under a cover in your garage? These days, a lot of cars are the same as wines/art/etc. - safer places for your money to sit in times of uncertainty.

I hope you are right but surely the market will be flooded by luxury cars if a recession were to hit, which in turn would drive prices down. For all us lower/middle class the first thing to get the chop would be the toy in the garage. This entirely excludes the uber rich buying F40's as there will always be short supply. But what about all the (relatively) affordable sports cars e.g. GT4, 911 Turbo etc..

Surely in uncertain times housing is a safer place to put your money. People will always need a roof over their head and the population is only set to rise. I for one will sell my pride and joy and plow it into the mortgage if things go to pot.

Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 29th March 13:25

[av185]

cypriot said:

this guy has an interesting take on the whole limited car issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_UUGcJ3KOA&t=...

Just the usual over verbose nonsense.

He forgot to mention Porsche and similar manufacturers

-don't necessarily have the capacity to churn out any number of GT cars.

-need to reap the huge benefits of brand filtering onto their more vanilla products.

[Digga]

shantybeater said:

PhantomPH said:

I don't agree at all. That is when I suspect you will see MORE money going into perceived 'limited' hard assets like these cars. If 'credit' (as you put it) becomes the issue, money finds it's way into safe places. If you had £1m and there was signs of market contraction (which again, I disagree with as I personally predict a bull market for at least another couple of years), would you put it in an investment or savings vehicle and an ACTUAL vehicle like an F40 to sit under a cover in your garage? These days, a lot of cars are the same as wines/art/etc. - safer places for your money to sit in times of uncertainty.

I hope you are right but surely the market will be flooded by luxury cars if a recession were to hit, which in turn would drive prices down. For all us lower/middle class the first thing to get the chop would be the toy in the garage. This entirely excludes the uber rich buying F40's as there will always be short supply. But what about all the (relatively) affordable sports cars e.g. GT4, 911 Turbo etc..

Surely in uncertain times housing is a safer place to put your money. People will always need a roof over their head and the population is only set to rise. I for one will sell my pride and joy and plow it into the mortgage if things go to pot.

Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 29th March 13:25

Prices of classic cars as well as houses can and do decline.

If there is a credit crisis, it implies higher real rates of interest and makes cash deposits (i.e. not buying a car or house) more attractive, whilst also making borrowing money to buy a car or a house more difficult, expensive and less attractive. It matters not if you don't need to sell your house/car because you have low/no/fixed interest borrowings if lots of other people are forced to sell; the assets prices drop.

As for houses being 'safe', I do wonder how the baby boomers will all be able to sell up to the increasingly less well-off younger generations without prices holding, at best, or at worst dropping in real terms.

[PhantomPH]

Digga said:

shantybeater said:

PhantomPH said:

I don't agree at all. That is when I suspect you will see MORE money going into perceived 'limited' hard assets like these cars. If 'credit' (as you put it) becomes the issue, money finds it's way into safe places. If you had £1m and there was signs of market contraction (which again, I disagree with as I personally predict a bull market for at least another couple of years), would you put it in an investment or savings vehicle and an ACTUAL vehicle like an F40 to sit under a cover in your garage? These days, a lot of cars are the same as wines/art/etc. - safer places for your money to sit in times of uncertainty.

I hope you are right but surely the market will be flooded by luxury cars if a recession were to hit, which in turn would drive prices down. For all us lower/middle class the first thing to get the chop would be the toy in the garage. This entirely excludes the uber rich buying F40's as there will always be short supply. But what about all the (relatively) affordable sports cars e.g. GT4, 911 Turbo etc..

Surely in uncertain times housing is a safer place to put your money. People will always need a roof over their head and the population is only set to rise. I for one will sell my pride and joy and plow it into the mortgage if things go to pot.

Edited by shantybeater on Wednesday 29th March 13:25

Prices of classic cars as well as houses can and do decline.

If there is a credit crisis, it implies higher real rates of interest and makes cash deposits (i.e. not buying a car or house) more attractive, whilst also making borrowing money to buy a car or a house more difficult, expensive and less attractive. It matters not if you don't need to sell your house/car because you have low/no/fixed interest borrowings if lots of other people are forced to sell; the assets prices drop.

As for houses being 'safe', I do wonder how the baby boomers will all be able to sell up to the increasingly less well-off younger generations without prices holding, at best, or at worst dropping in real terms.

You both raise an interesting point - perhaps I am being a little too 'upper end' about it. Thinking of the next bracket up when really you guys are talking about the lower-mid end of the 'investment car' market with the GT cars. I guess that's the key - one man's safe haven isn't necessarily applicable to the next person.

I think 'classic' cars are less of a risk because they are essentially limited cars. At the opposite end of the scale, I have a 1958 Beetle (satisfying a childhood obsession now I'm of a certain age! Ha). There's never going to be any more 1958 Beetles than there is now and by definition there can ONLY be the same or less...so supply vs demand suggests they are unlikely to suddenly hit rock bottom value unless a different external factor hits - such as all the worlds' petrol running out. In percentage terms, I would say mine is a safer bet than the people who are paying £40+k for a Focus RS.

Regardless, this is a little OT now. My take on the thread title is that I don't doubt I will ever own a GT car at all - I just don't know if I will enjoy the side effect of zero depreciation or even growth, or if I have to pay a premium to buy it in the first place. I think I have a little more pragmatic attitude - do I want a GT3? Yes/No. Can I get one through the standard OPC car buying method? Yes/No. Can I afford to buy one being flipped for a premium? Yes/No. I can own one - I might just have to pay a little more.

Really, the thread title should be, "I Doubt I will ever own a GT car that I have been able to walk in to my OPC and buy as owner 1 on the V5".

Edited by PhantomPH on Wednesday 29th March 14:23

[Digga]

PhantomPH said:

Really, the thread title should be, "I Doubt I will ever own a GT car that I have been able to walk in to my OPC and buy as owner 1 on the V5".

Pretty much agree. You/I could bung £100 to £130k down now and buy a 991 GT3 or a 997.2 GT3, but with that same money, will never be able to buy, run in and cherish a brand new GT car as a 'keeper'.

[Twinfan]

av185 said:

Just the usual over verbose nonsense.

He forgot to mention Porsche and similar manufacturers

-don't necessarily have the capacity to churn out any number of GT cars.

-need to reap the huge benefits of brand filtering onto their more vanilla products.

Agreed. Completely misses the halo effect on the rest of the brand marketing.

[Deansfield]

having read most of the thread, It looks like the only road to new GT3 ownership is to have bought a GT car previously from OPC and yes paid a premium, (they all command this) so if that's what needs to be done for a GT3 991.2 get out there and get it done, spring is round the corner and there is some lovely GT cars in the dealerships at the moment, get in there and you could be getting a call for next years batch , good luck

[ted 191]

Porsche should sit down with all OPC's and go through ;

A. Criteria for getting a car, and make it available for customers to see.

B. stipulate when a deposit should be paid.

At present different OPC's are saying different things to different people, this needs sorting to stop customers going on the net and spouting rubbish.

Today I have asked for my deposit refunding, after 32 years dealing with OPC, buying 7 cars recently, inc turbo s, cayenne, panamera etc, still not got a car in the first allocation.................I will not play this game.

[av185]

ted 191 said:

Porsche should sit down with all OPC's and go through ;

A. Criteria for getting a car, and make it available for customers to see.

B. stipulate when a deposit should be paid.

At present different OPC's are saying different things to different people, this needs sorting to stop customers going on the net and spouting rubbish.

Today I have asked for my deposit refunding, after 32 years dealing with OPC, buying 7 cars recently, inc turbo s, cayenne, panamera etc, still not got a car in the first allocation.................I will not play this game.

Porsche aren't interested in criteria......it is down to the individual OPC and how the franchise run their sales operation.

A deposit is meaningless following the new invitation system. No car is guaranteed till spec locked.

Most OPCs will return deposits anyway in line with Company policy to those not recently allocated a car in the first run of c 5 cars average. That is not to say they will not get a car. OPC will not take more deposits until the original depositors redeposit on the next allocation run of between 4 and 6 cars early summer for 2018 delivery.

[ted 191]

av185 said:

ted 191 said:

Porsche should sit down with all OPC's and go through ;

A. Criteria for getting a car, and make it available for customers to see.

B. stipulate when a deposit should be paid.

At present different OPC's are saying different things to different people, this needs sorting to stop customers going on the net and spouting rubbish.

Today I have asked for my deposit refunding, after 32 years dealing with OPC, buying 7 cars recently, inc turbo s, cayenne, panamera etc, still not got a car in the first allocation.................I will not play this game.

Porsche aren't interested in criteria......it is down to the individual OPC and how the franchise run their sales operation.

A deposit is meaningless following the new invitation system. No car is guaranteed till spec locked.

Most OPCs will return deposits anyway in line with Company policy to those not recently allocated a car in the first run of c 5 cars average. That is not to say they will not get a car. OPC will not take more deposits until the original depositors redeposit on the next allocation run of between 4 and 6 cars early summer for 2018 delivery.

And that's why porsche need to sort their OPC's.............I've had the exact opposite to what you've just described, I "may" get a second allocation car sometime next year......but if I want a chance, I have to leave my £10k deposit with the OPC.