what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Chris Stott said:
Good to hear, Jamie. Some thoughts...
Steering - mine's light at normal road speed, but weights up once you have a good load in the suspension. As long as it doesn't wander at speed it should be OK. Cup wheel is a great addition. Transforms the driving position, and makes the steering feel different (can't really explain it, but something about the smaller diameter, and the alcantara just makes the car feel more agile/responsive). JUST FEELS A LITTLE VAGUE AROUND THE STRAIGHT AHEAD - MAY BE TYRES / TYRE PRESSURE/ GEOMETRY / WORN BUSHES OR JUST NEEDS GETTING USED TO !
Brakes - that's how they all feel... the power is there when you really tread on them, but they feel very different to modern road cars. 997GT3 master cylinder is supposed to be a good mod, and isn't expensive to do. PEDAL TRAVEL IS NOT THE ISSUE - IT'S PAD BITE. IF I REPLACE PADS AND DISCS AND IT'S NO BETTER I'LL BELIEVE "THAT'S HOW THEY ALL FEEL". I'VE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OTHER THAN AMAZING BRAKES ON PORSCHES, 3.2 CARRERA, 964 C2, 964RS, 968 CS....... THOUGH MOST HAD UPGRADED BRAKES TO SOME EXTENT.
Exhaust - do you have x pipe 200 cells cats or straights? I've read the X pipe gives more high pitched noise at higher revs.
I'VE GOT THE STRAIGHT PIPES - I NOTE THE DISCUSSION ON 911UK ABOUT X VS STRAIGHT.
Suspension - IME, there's not a lot you can do with low speed ride. They all feel a bit crashy at the rear over short/sharp transverse bumps. I'd definitely check your tyre pressures... I run mine at 36-38 rear as 42 feels horrible... GTOne also have a habit of setting them high. Engine mounts and uprated ARB's are a good way to further tighten everything up without killing the ride quality (I have a M030 front bar and H&R adjustable rear bar ready to fit).
I'VE GOT MORE ADJUSTMENT AVAILABLE ON THE SHOCKS TO TRY - TYRES ARE ALREADY DOWN AT 34/38.
Intakes - Not really read anything that shows they add much other than noise. A guy on Rennlist posted some tests he did on his Cayman, and no performance improvement.
MAYBE - COMBO OF INTAKE AND EXHAUST MODS SHOULD DO SOMETHING, AND THROTTLE BODY AND REMAP COULD ONLY IMPROVE THAT.
ICE - Really impressed with the Continental DAB head unit I fitted a few weeks ago. Plug and play and great value at well under £200. I've bought 2 sets Alpine speakers with fitting kits from JMG, though haven't had time to fit them yet. I'VE JUST FITTED THE ALPINES WITH THE JMG KIT. FITTING WAS MUCH MORE FAFF THAN ADVERTISED - I ENDED UP HAVING TO SNIP TWO LUGS OF EACH SPEAKER TO GET THEM TO FIT, WHICH IS NOT REQUIRED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS.......... I TRIED EVERY POSSIBLE ARRANGEMENT, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD FIT. OVERALL SOUND MUCH IMPROVED.
I'm also going to fit at RSS or Rennsport semi-solid engine mounts - lots of very positive feedback. Consensus is leave the gearbox mount stock if you're doing the engine mounts - both together add a lot of NVH.
ON THE LIST !
I'd love a ducktail, but I'm not paying the crazy money RPM are asking for their carbon version, and haven't managed to find anything decent at lower cost.
DESIGN 911 DO A CHEAPER ONE, BUT THE PICTURES AREN'T CONVINCING. I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS TO IMPORT FROM EUROPE / US. COULLSTAR ON 911UK SEEMS TO HAVE A NICE ONE, THOUGH I APPRECIATE IT'S NOT A FULL ENGINE LID, MERELY A SPOILER REPLACEMENT.Steering - mine's light at normal road speed, but weights up once you have a good load in the suspension. As long as it doesn't wander at speed it should be OK. Cup wheel is a great addition. Transforms the driving position, and makes the steering feel different (can't really explain it, but something about the smaller diameter, and the alcantara just makes the car feel more agile/responsive). JUST FEELS A LITTLE VAGUE AROUND THE STRAIGHT AHEAD - MAY BE TYRES / TYRE PRESSURE/ GEOMETRY / WORN BUSHES OR JUST NEEDS GETTING USED TO !
Brakes - that's how they all feel... the power is there when you really tread on them, but they feel very different to modern road cars. 997GT3 master cylinder is supposed to be a good mod, and isn't expensive to do. PEDAL TRAVEL IS NOT THE ISSUE - IT'S PAD BITE. IF I REPLACE PADS AND DISCS AND IT'S NO BETTER I'LL BELIEVE "THAT'S HOW THEY ALL FEEL". I'VE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OTHER THAN AMAZING BRAKES ON PORSCHES, 3.2 CARRERA, 964 C2, 964RS, 968 CS....... THOUGH MOST HAD UPGRADED BRAKES TO SOME EXTENT.
Exhaust - do you have x pipe 200 cells cats or straights? I've read the X pipe gives more high pitched noise at higher revs.
I'VE GOT THE STRAIGHT PIPES - I NOTE THE DISCUSSION ON 911UK ABOUT X VS STRAIGHT.
Suspension - IME, there's not a lot you can do with low speed ride. They all feel a bit crashy at the rear over short/sharp transverse bumps. I'd definitely check your tyre pressures... I run mine at 36-38 rear as 42 feels horrible... GTOne also have a habit of setting them high. Engine mounts and uprated ARB's are a good way to further tighten everything up without killing the ride quality (I have a M030 front bar and H&R adjustable rear bar ready to fit).
I'VE GOT MORE ADJUSTMENT AVAILABLE ON THE SHOCKS TO TRY - TYRES ARE ALREADY DOWN AT 34/38.
Intakes - Not really read anything that shows they add much other than noise. A guy on Rennlist posted some tests he did on his Cayman, and no performance improvement.
MAYBE - COMBO OF INTAKE AND EXHAUST MODS SHOULD DO SOMETHING, AND THROTTLE BODY AND REMAP COULD ONLY IMPROVE THAT.
ICE - Really impressed with the Continental DAB head unit I fitted a few weeks ago. Plug and play and great value at well under £200. I've bought 2 sets Alpine speakers with fitting kits from JMG, though haven't had time to fit them yet. I'VE JUST FITTED THE ALPINES WITH THE JMG KIT. FITTING WAS MUCH MORE FAFF THAN ADVERTISED - I ENDED UP HAVING TO SNIP TWO LUGS OF EACH SPEAKER TO GET THEM TO FIT, WHICH IS NOT REQUIRED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS.......... I TRIED EVERY POSSIBLE ARRANGEMENT, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD FIT. OVERALL SOUND MUCH IMPROVED.
I'm also going to fit at RSS or Rennsport semi-solid engine mounts - lots of very positive feedback. Consensus is leave the gearbox mount stock if you're doing the engine mounts - both together add a lot of NVH.
ON THE LIST !
I'd love a ducktail, but I'm not paying the crazy money RPM are asking for their carbon version, and haven't managed to find anything decent at lower cost.
Jamie Summers said:
Chris Stott said:
Good to hear, Jamie. Some thoughts...
Steering - mine's light at normal road speed, but weights up once you have a good load in the suspension. As long as it doesn't wander at speed it should be OK. Cup wheel is a great addition. Transforms the driving position, and makes the steering feel different (can't really explain it, but something about the smaller diameter, and the alcantara just makes the car feel more agile/responsive). JUST FEELS A LITTLE VAGUE AROUND THE STRAIGHT AHEAD - MAY BE TYRES / TYRE PRESSURE/ GEOMETRY / WORN BUSHES OR JUST NEEDS GETTING USED TO !
Steering - mine's light at normal road speed, but weights up once you have a good load in the suspension. As long as it doesn't wander at speed it should be OK. Cup wheel is a great addition. Transforms the driving position, and makes the steering feel different (can't really explain it, but something about the smaller diameter, and the alcantara just makes the car feel more agile/responsive). JUST FEELS A LITTLE VAGUE AROUND THE STRAIGHT AHEAD - MAY BE TYRES / TYRE PRESSURE/ GEOMETRY / WORN BUSHES OR JUST NEEDS GETTING USED TO !
Get some camber dialled in to give a bit more bite.
CG are well worth a visit and they'll make the car do what you want.
Fast Bug said:
I think the RPM one is the nicest looking, but it's silly money. Yes it's carbon fibre, but I'd paint mine any way and I don't think I'd notice the weight saving?
RE the brakes, mine felt a lot better after switching to braided hoses
Probably the new fluid and hoses not the braiding, braiding does FARE the brakes, mine felt a lot better after switching to braided hoses
I run textar pads, no complains. Would be running ds2000 if I was doing track days.
Jamie Summers said:
Suspension - Designtek coilovers, high speed damping really good, low speed lacking a bit of control More playing around to do with damper settings.
In terms of the low speed damping, are you referring to the transient response, pitch rate and roll rate during high speed cornering or are you meaning the was it responds to bumps when travelling slowly? Ahonen said:
In terms of the low speed damping, are you referring to the transient response, pitch rate and roll rate during high speed cornering or are you meaning the was it responds to bumps when travelling slowly?
I was referring to the way bumps are dealt with relative to vehicle speed. Imperfections appear better absorbed at higher vehicle speed, whereas at lower speed much more is transferred through the chassis. Possibly this could be as much about spring rate as the damping. I can’t comment on roll and pitch control as I’ve not had a proper go on the twisties. I’m still running the standard ARBs, so roll will still be an issue. Apologies for the slightly unsophisticated explanation !
The current set up is only marginally more extreme than stock, so could certainly have a bit more neg camber without fear of trashing tyres too quickly.
I need to get my track Cayman up to CG before I worry too much more about the 996.
Jamie Summers said:
Had spent last half hour doing an in-depth write up, but the website has crashed on my twice......... Sorry, giving up.
In summary I'm very pleased with the car and mods, but still some further tinkering to be done to get it perfect.
Write it in word (save), copy and paste!In summary I'm very pleased with the car and mods, but still some further tinkering to be done to get it perfect.
Chris Stott said:
I've never had any problems with H&T in mine.
In 10 years, I think I've only triggered the PSM a couple of times... though it did save me from one potentially very big accident (aquaplaned on the M6 Toll).
Me neither. I don’t think the system on the 996.1 deactivates (or even changes) the throttle control if you’re on the brakes. On my Boxster Spyder however it would occasionally interfere even when planting my right foot for an overtake if it thought I’d sneezed or something. Infuriating (and potentially dangerous). In 10 years, I think I've only triggered the PSM a couple of times... though it did save me from one potentially very big accident (aquaplaned on the M6 Toll).
When cmoose drove my car he commented how surprised he was that h&t worked so well and the PSM was unobtrusive. His experience of PSM up to that point was based on the 996.2 and he’d not driven a 996.1 C4 before. ( I’m pretty sure that’s what you said Jeremy?).
PSM can be turned off of course, which allowed me to get very sideways at castle Combe!
Jamie Summers said:
Ahonen said:
In terms of the low speed damping, are you referring to the transient response, pitch rate and roll rate during high speed cornering or are you meaning the was it responds to bumps when travelling slowly?
I was referring to the way bumps are dealt with relative to vehicle speed. Imperfections appear better absorbed at higher vehicle speed, whereas at lower speed much more is transferred through the chassis. Possibly this could be as much about spring rate as the damping. I can’t comment on roll and pitch control as I’ve not had a proper go on the twisties. I’m still running the standard ARBs, so roll will still be an issue. Apologies for the slightly unsophisticated explanation !
The current set up is only marginally more extreme than stock, so could certainly have a bit more neg camber without fear of trashing tyres too quickly.
I need to get my track Cayman up to CG before I worry too much more about the 996.
That places you in a trickier position in terms of damping adjustment. Any changes you make to the high speed damper settings on the dampers will affect the way the bumps are absorbed differently depending on the speed you're travelling - there's almost always a trade off. If you feel it's too stiff and unforgiving at lower speeds (I'm guessing it's a bit 'jiggly' as if the suspension isn't moving much) but fine when going quickly then you'll probably find that softening the high speed settings will improve general low speed comfort - but at higher speeds the car might feel a bit more floaty on uneven surfaces.
Jamie Summers said:
PEDAL TRAVEL IS NOT THE ISSUE - IT'S PAD BITE. IF I REPLACE PADS AND DISCS AND IT'S NO BETTER I'LL BELIEVE "THAT'S HOW THEY ALL FEEL". I'VE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OTHER THAN AMAZING BRAKES ON PORSCHES, 3.2 CARRERA, 964 C2, 964RS, 968 CS....... THOUGH MOST HAD UPGRADED BRAKES TO SOME EXTENT.
I've been through a lot of discs and pads over the last 10 years/110k miles (mine had new discs and pads all round back in April)... it always feels pretty much the same... like there's no bite on initial application. IMO, it's just the lack of servo assistance compared to most modern cars, as the brake power is there with more pedal pressure.When I get back in our Touareg after driving the 996 for a few weeks I have to be very mindful of the brakes as it's easy to perform an emergency stop when just trying to slow marginally!
You get used to them.
Chris Stott said:
Jamie Summers said:
PEDAL TRAVEL IS NOT THE ISSUE - IT'S PAD BITE. IF I REPLACE PADS AND DISCS AND IT'S NO BETTER I'LL BELIEVE "THAT'S HOW THEY ALL FEEL". I'VE NEVER HAD ANYTHING OTHER THAN AMAZING BRAKES ON PORSCHES, 3.2 CARRERA, 964 C2, 964RS, 968 CS....... THOUGH MOST HAD UPGRADED BRAKES TO SOME EXTENT.
I've been through a lot of discs and pads over the last 10 years/110k miles (mine had new discs and pads all round back in April)... it always feels pretty much the same... like there's no bite on initial application. IMO, it's just the lack of servo assistance compared to most modern cars, as the brake power is there with more pedal pressure.When I get back in our Touareg after driving the 996 for a few weeks I have to be very mindful of the brakes as it's easy to perform an emergency stop when just trying to slow marginally!
You get used to them.
Secondly they can feel very wooden & lacking in bite if things aren't in good order - corrosion on the rear faces for example. I also found that new dampers improved braking feel on my 986S (but not sure why)
griffter said:
Me neither. I don’t think the system on the 996.1 deactivates (or even changes) the throttle control if you’re on the brakes.
My 986S was certainly fine for H&T on trackdaysAhonen said:
If you feel it's too stiff and unforgiving at lower speeds (I'm guessing it's a bit 'jiggly' as if the suspension isn't moving much) but fine when going quickly..
I think that describes the feel of the stock suspension on my C2 pretty well - not very sophisticated at low speed over broken surfaces, but fine when pressing on griffter said:
Me neither. I don’t think the system on the 996.1 deactivates (or even changes) the throttle control if you’re on the brakes.
It doesn’t... you can use brakes and accelerator at the same time without any issues - I drive mine up and down our road a few times after I’ve washed it to dry the discs... left foot hard on the brake, right foot on the gas. Chris Stott said:
I’ve done quite a bit of googling, but not found anything at sensible money.
That’s because all the other aftermarket ducktails are crap by comparison and won’t fit properly. I tried to find one for my blue 996 back in the day. Waste of time and money. RPM’s all the way.
You pays your money...
Paynewright said:
Superfluous!! And a bit of high up weight saving.
Whilst it was a purchase compromise on my 996, I actually like mine now I have one - tilted open at the back means I get good airflow through the cabin with only marginally more noise (unlike the windows!!)
Ian
Yes i think i'd prefer one tbh. Always use them if my car at the time has one fitted.Whilst it was a purchase compromise on my 996, I actually like mine now I have one - tilted open at the back means I get good airflow through the cabin with only marginally more noise (unlike the windows!!)
Ian
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