what is an 'early' 3.4 996?
Discussion
Searider said:
1999 car, so it is my preferred duel bearing model
IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
You can get a dual row retrofit from LN too. They do a variety of IMS related bearing kits.IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
Indeed.
The point I've seen Baz make is: "If it's original and lasted this long, it probably will last indefinitely and not fail before something else in the engine does"
Once the dust seals wear enough to allow oil in to wash out the grease, the bearing is to all intents and purposes properly lubricated, and provided it didn't suffer too much wear during the phase of operation where it only had grease as lubrication, it'll then last for the life of the engine.
Anecdotally, engines that are babied, or stored mostly, suffer more issues than those use enthusiastically due to the oil being thrown into the bearing from the IMS chain at high speed operation. Which is quite probably why Porsche didn't identify it as a particular issue during the development of the engine; accelerated lifecycle testing is just that, pushing an engine much harder than it normally would be - rather than leaving it standing, or using it to go to the shops and back..
The point I've seen Baz make is: "If it's original and lasted this long, it probably will last indefinitely and not fail before something else in the engine does"
Once the dust seals wear enough to allow oil in to wash out the grease, the bearing is to all intents and purposes properly lubricated, and provided it didn't suffer too much wear during the phase of operation where it only had grease as lubrication, it'll then last for the life of the engine.
Anecdotally, engines that are babied, or stored mostly, suffer more issues than those use enthusiastically due to the oil being thrown into the bearing from the IMS chain at high speed operation. Which is quite probably why Porsche didn't identify it as a particular issue during the development of the engine; accelerated lifecycle testing is just that, pushing an engine much harder than it normally would be - rather than leaving it standing, or using it to go to the shops and back..
The guys at RSR say the same thing, once it's past a certain point it's probably unlikely to fail. It seems to be sub 80k cars that suffer failure, and cars that are babied. No chance of that with mine! Hopefully get it back in a few days, going to a VW drag event next weekend in it, so it'll get a good run to Avon Park. My friend is taking his 964, so hopefully we can have some fun on the way there and back
Searider said:
1999 car, so it is my preferred duel bearing model
IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
Alternative dual rows are available.IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
I like the Sports and Classic replacement. They use a deep dual row bearing from SKF with higher load tolerances than the original 'best of breed' dual row, and it has open lubrication
http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-h...
Bparry said:
I purchased this low mileage '99 manual last month and love it to bits 
just wanted to say this thread has been very insightful so thankyou all.
thats very nice mate.......... health to enjoy... just wanted to say this thread has been very insightful so thankyou all.agree. i have enjoyed this thread too. for me the 996 is just a proper future classic
Raymondo2 said:
Searider said:
1999 car, so it is my preferred duel bearing model
IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
Alternative dual rows are available.IMS done.
I thought that the dual IMS bearing was no longer available.
If it's had the bearing changed it won't be a dual row bearing.
I like the Sports and Classic replacement. They use a deep dual row bearing from SKF with higher load tolerances than the original 'best of breed' dual row, and it has open lubrication
http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-h...
Thanks.
Well I've now been and looked at 3 cars and have to say I am massively disappointed! Perhaps my expectations of how a 17 yr old 996 should look is unrealistic.
In fairness all three maintained a reasonable lustre to their paint and although the seats were in reasonable condition all had faded and stained carpeting & doorcards. Also switchgear was scratched and peeling. I assume the interiors don't wear too well on 996s then?
Other horrors inc: Cracked and torn tyre sidewalls beneath a veneer of tyreshine. A full service history that isn't. A recent "full service completed by a Porsche specialist" that as far as I can see was an oil and filter change by "We Service NE Car" for the princely sum of £150!! The name alone puts me off. The last car I looked at had the front edge of the wheel arch down to the bare metal on both sides. The salesman said this would be addressed as part of the sale. However although he volunteered that the alloys needed a refurb this would cost me an extra £75 per wheel!! I suspect that this last car also had a bore score issue.
If anyone else out there is looking for a car please be careful. I now understand cmoose's cynicism.
All 3 cars I've seen have been in the £16-18k price bracket and sub80k miles so far from cheap or high milers.
I had a long chat with a private vendor on Fri eve and was encouraged by the level of detail he could provide on the mechanical attention his car had received. Based on the description it sounds lovely but the car is located north of Aberdeen. I'm just not sure I want to shell out £150 on flights to view it.
Are my expectations unrealistic? Whilst out of my price range I have thought about going to see the car RPM Tecknik are selling to see what a good example could look like. As things stand I'm wondering if for my budget the 996 isn't really the car for me. I would have looked at a newer Cayman/Boxster but i need to have a 2+2.
In fairness all three maintained a reasonable lustre to their paint and although the seats were in reasonable condition all had faded and stained carpeting & doorcards. Also switchgear was scratched and peeling. I assume the interiors don't wear too well on 996s then?
Other horrors inc: Cracked and torn tyre sidewalls beneath a veneer of tyreshine. A full service history that isn't. A recent "full service completed by a Porsche specialist" that as far as I can see was an oil and filter change by "We Service NE Car" for the princely sum of £150!! The name alone puts me off. The last car I looked at had the front edge of the wheel arch down to the bare metal on both sides. The salesman said this would be addressed as part of the sale. However although he volunteered that the alloys needed a refurb this would cost me an extra £75 per wheel!! I suspect that this last car also had a bore score issue.
If anyone else out there is looking for a car please be careful. I now understand cmoose's cynicism.
All 3 cars I've seen have been in the £16-18k price bracket and sub80k miles so far from cheap or high milers.
I had a long chat with a private vendor on Fri eve and was encouraged by the level of detail he could provide on the mechanical attention his car had received. Based on the description it sounds lovely but the car is located north of Aberdeen. I'm just not sure I want to shell out £150 on flights to view it.
Are my expectations unrealistic? Whilst out of my price range I have thought about going to see the car RPM Tecknik are selling to see what a good example could look like. As things stand I'm wondering if for my budget the 996 isn't really the car for me. I would have looked at a newer Cayman/Boxster but i need to have a 2+2.
Nope, you are right. I had a similar experience last year with 997 gen1.. boy that was an adventure, many of them already had engine replaced or about to go.
Really can't see any value, while good 986 and 987s still almost half-price of 996/997.
I think the best option would be mid 20s, one owner, 996 C4S. Less than 80k ideally (which is probably impossible lol)
Really can't see any value, while good 986 and 987s still almost half-price of 996/997.
I think the best option would be mid 20s, one owner, 996 C4S. Less than 80k ideally (which is probably impossible lol)
I wanted to buy the best 996 that I could find - everyone wants to do that. But, I had no illusions that best I could find=acceptable condition.
I've now had two major, couple of week long periods of the car being meticulously updated at a Porsche specialist, and I've now got the list down to:
- Sun visor mirror flaps need new springs
- Rear ARB bushes have slight squeak
I think that if you expect to buy one of these cars in perfect, doesn't need a thing condition then you need to find one that's being sold by someone who never intended on selling it and has very high standards. In other words you have to be lucky, very lucky.
Alternatively you could lower your standards and accept a haggard bag of rotten bushes, blown shocks etc, but then there's not much point in a 911 then.
I'd say that the single most important thing in a the buying process (once you've decided what you want) is the PPI - don't expect nothing on this, expect a laundry list, and use that to negotiate the price down to a point that allows you to spend the money needed to fix it.
I've now had two major, couple of week long periods of the car being meticulously updated at a Porsche specialist, and I've now got the list down to:
- Sun visor mirror flaps need new springs
- Rear ARB bushes have slight squeak
I think that if you expect to buy one of these cars in perfect, doesn't need a thing condition then you need to find one that's being sold by someone who never intended on selling it and has very high standards. In other words you have to be lucky, very lucky.
Alternatively you could lower your standards and accept a haggard bag of rotten bushes, blown shocks etc, but then there's not much point in a 911 then.
I'd say that the single most important thing in a the buying process (once you've decided what you want) is the PPI - don't expect nothing on this, expect a laundry list, and use that to negotiate the price down to a point that allows you to spend the money needed to fix it.
They are out there. Not sure you'll find them in the trade though. I got lucky last year, mine was owned by a friend of a friend who took a great deal of care over his cars. Did his own work on them, so no dealer stamps, for the last few years but I was confident in what I knew about him.
57k miles, lovely interior, paintwork needed a machine polish but I am very pleased with it.
57k miles, lovely interior, paintwork needed a machine polish but I am very pleased with it.
They are out there but you need a bit of luck with timing, mine that i sold in march had 55k on it, v good paintwork, interior switchgear like new and a proper full service history. Also suspension refresh by centre gravity. I probably sold it too cheap in view of the competition which was proved as a trader bought it and re sold at a profit very quickly, hence timing on good cars very important
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Everytime I visit OPC, there are usually large number of cars being delivered by AA or any other road assistance. (911s, even turbos, a few cayennes I see usually). I make this comment because I also visit other brands services with mine or family's cars (Mercs, VW).I think modern porsche's comparing to other german brands (merc, audi or even bmw) are pretty unreliable. On the other hand, two colleages have had 964 and 993 for years, they do not have anything major apart from occasional oil leak and CEL but again you are always worried about that massive "porsche tax" bill that might hit you. With all that risk and expense, 986 & 987 becomes great options as a second car with the prices on them recently, and even 987.2 is no-brainer as engines proven to be solid. 996 is lovely retro but super risky and needs almost surgical research and inspection before the purchase, 997.1 is definitely need a OPC warranty.I think we all know that best low stress likelihood of great condition option is a 987.2, but then it wouldn't be a 911. For me its a heart v head thing, my head says look for a nice sub 20k 987.2 boxster S, or a 2.9 Cayman, my heart says early 996 C2 and the result of all this internal debate is I have been prepping my 944 S2 race car for an MoT again with the intention of using her more (sometimes a little bit crazy is probably the best thing).
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