what is an 'early' 3.4 996?

[shalmaneser]

ATM said:

nebpor said:

I ran a car with lots of camber (ITR DC2 ex-racecar) - it tends to follow the road mercilessly ... not always what you want. Lovely on a track, not nice on the state of UK roads.

There will be much more to it than this (I'm not geo expert!) but that's at least one aspect.

My earlier car has about -1.5 front and it drives fine. Doesn't pull around on ruts. Just drives like a car but has great steering feel.

Do you have uprated ARBs?

Edit: to be clear it's not tramlining (had that on my e36 m3) it just feels a little too keen to turn in. Maybe I'd get used to it.

Edited by shalmaneser on Thursday 6th October 14:32

[ATM]

shalmaneser said:

Do you have uprated ARBs?

Edit: to be clear it's not tramlining (had that on my e36 m3) it just feels a little too keen to turn in. Maybe I'd get used to it.

Yes but never messed with it

I believe too much turn in or more grip at front is because of too stiff at the back. Not sure if you can soften the back on yours?

[Ahonen]

shalmaneser said:

Anyway, I've got a question regarding camber. I recently replaced the top mounts to cure a squeak while steering (which seems to have worked). For the lols I set the struts for maximum front camber as it obviously needs to be properly set up anyway and I thought it looked cool. The car turns in unbelievably now, it was always pretty excellent in this regard as I fitted new M0303 springs and dampers, M030 front ARB and an H&R rear ARB (set at its softest setting) but now it's really hyperactive.

It's probably a bit much with maximum camber so I'll get it dialled back a touch, I'd estimate it at 1 degree probably. I've run it at standard settings in the past (0 degrees I think), does anyone have a good 'fast road' setup that I can hand to my friendly local tracking guy? Not bothered about going to Centre Gravity and getting posh coffee and a back rub, just want numbers.

I can't give you any numbers as I don't know much about road tyres but I have a question for you, which may help. Did you reset the front toe after you increased the camber? It's possible that the increase in camber has also led to a fairly significant change in front toe and this may be the main reason the car suddenly feels incredibly pointy. At road speeds it's unlikely that the camber would have made a huge difference beyond an increase in camber thrust - and if anything your contact patch would have reduced slightly during the initial turn-in phase.

[shalmaneser]

Ahonen said:

shalmaneser said:

Anyway, I've got a question regarding camber. I recently replaced the top mounts to cure a squeak while steering (which seems to have worked). For the lols I set the struts for maximum front camber as it obviously needs to be properly set up anyway and I thought it looked cool. The car turns in unbelievably now, it was always pretty excellent in this regard as I fitted new M0303 springs and dampers, M030 front ARB and an H&R rear ARB (set at its softest setting) but now it's really hyperactive.

It's probably a bit much with maximum camber so I'll get it dialled back a touch, I'd estimate it at 1 degree probably. I've run it at standard settings in the past (0 degrees I think), does anyone have a good 'fast road' setup that I can hand to my friendly local tracking guy? Not bothered about going to Centre Gravity and getting posh coffee and a back rub, just want numbers.

I can't give you any numbers as I don't know much about road tyres but I have a question for you, which may help. Did you reset the front toe after you increased the camber? It's possible that the increase in camber has also led to a fairly significant change in front toe and this may be the main reason the car suddenly feels incredibly pointy. At road speeds it's unlikely that the camber would have made a huge difference beyond an increase in camber thrust - and if anything your contact patch would have reduced slightly during the initial turn-in phase.

I did not and I suspect this has contributed - it's not a complaint as such I was surprised though how much difference it made. Hence trying to find a halfway house between this and the 'standard' setup.

ATM said:

shalmaneser said:

Do you have uprated ARBs?

Edit: to be clear it's not tramlining (had that on my e36 m3) it just feels a little too keen to turn in. Maybe I'd get used to it.

Yes but never messed with it

I believe too much turn in or more grip at front is because of too stiff at the back. Not sure if you can soften the back on yours?

Back is maximum soft but I wouldn't want to decrease the rear ARB anway, I do enjoy the current setup
and could match it with a stiffer front ARB but the setup has worked very well for me so far, I think slightly more aggressive geo should get me a decent inprovement!

Edited by shalmaneser on Thursday 6th October 16:59

[ATM]

Ahonen said:

It's possible that the increase in camber has also led to a fairly significant change in front toe and this may be the main reason the car suddenly feels incredibly pointy.

This

When I first got my early 996 the steering was nervous and twitchy. I had the geo done and then it was like a different car. The main difference was toe. The fronts were toeing out. Once corrected the steering was just great.

So I dont believe the change in camber is your problem it's probably something else like toe.

[Mikeeb]

shalmaneser said:

That would be ideal!

Here you go. It was set to GT3 settings I believe. Right hand column are the post adjustment results.

[Chris Stott]

I have a H&R rear bar on full stiff, M030 front bar and zero front toe and camber… set up like this, my car has a very good front end without ever feeling nervous.

[shalmaneser]

Mikeeb said:

shalmaneser said:

That would be ideal!

Here you go. It was set to GT3 settings I believe. Right hand column are the post adjustment results.

Amazing thanks for this!

[WojaWabbit]

SteveStrange said:

ATM said:

Imagine this with the big wing cut off. I'd need to see more of what's going on in the boot lid itself. But with a none aero car I think this would look good.

On a full aero car from some angles I prefer the big fixed wing. But yes on a road car totally useless. Reminds me of the Sierra Cosworth. And we all loved the Sierra Cosworth.

Apropos of nothing, that is a beautiful thing and I can only dream of owning something like that, unless anyone wants to pay over the odds for one of my kids, er, I mean, kidneys.

There's a carbon RS-alike decklid for sale on 911UK for many, many pounds. It's pure porn.

[stigmeister]

A comparison for you, but car is ‘dirty’.

Hope it helps!

[ATM]

WojaWabbit said:

There's a carbon RS-alike decklid for sale on 911UK for many, many pounds. It's pure porn.

When ads keep getting cheaper like that everyone just waits for the bottom

[HughG]

stigmeister said:

A comparison for you, but car is ‘dirty’.

Hope it helps!

Gorgeous. Is it yours?

[stigmeister]

HughG said:

Gorgeous. Is it yours?

Yes mine, thank you, not a very good pic though - just a very quick iPhone shot.
Just thought I would share as the aesthetic of ducktail -v- wing seemed to be of interest to some.

[julian987R]

stigmeister said:

HughG said:

Gorgeous. Is it yours?

Yes mine, thank you, not a very good pic though - just a very quick iPhone shot.
Just thought I would share as the aesthetic of ducktail -v- wing seemed to be of interest to some.

Lovely car, wow what a gem. I much prefer the duck tail....seems more cohesive with the rest of the cars curves.

[stigmeister]

julian987R said:

Lovely car, wow what a gem. I much prefer the duck tail....seems more cohesive with the rest of the cars curves.

Cheers, I like it anyway and I think the ducktail really suits a narrow body car.
It certainly makes long distance touring and committed B-Road drives much better by virtue of the improvement in rear visibility - and it doesn’t take much away from track ability (at least at my level anyway).

[Slippydiff]

ATM said:

Yes the ducktail does have massive holes in it. And it's interesting Porsche used one on their classic recreation.

I think the main cooling is from rads but airflow is important. High speed just won't happen in UK well nowhere near 150+ top speed of these. You could probably fashion something which looks like the standard boot in the down position and still has some slats or a hole. But I'm not doing that.

Maybe a simpler smaller ducktail like boot is the only option. From some angles the common ducktail is a bit too pronounced.

The massive gt wings from the 996.2 rs only has a small and subtle lid below it.

Something like this ? :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APThdcf5yFk

Designer/vendor needs to chill out, but I like the concept

[ATM]

Slippydiff said:

Something like this ? :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APThdcf5yFk

Designer/vendor needs to chill out, but I like the concept

I prefer this simpler vid

[Slippydiff]

ATM said:

Slippydiff said:

Something like this ? :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APThdcf5yFk

Designer/vendor needs to chill out, but I like the concept

I prefer this simpler vid

So do I !! But it doesn’t explain the fitment ...

[ATM]

Slippydiff said:

So do I !! But it doesn’t explain the fitment ...

So its basically a new plastic grill which replaces the old one but with a little lip poking up from the back. I'm not sure I'm too impressed with it. Potentially it is an improvement over the standard version I will give you that. Good find. Does it fit the standard car or just the 4S?

[Slippydiff]

ATM said:

So its basically a new plastic grill which replaces the old one but with a little lip poking up from the back. I'm not sure I'm too impressed with it. Potentially it is an improvement over the standard version I will give you that. Good find. Does it fit the standard car or just the 4S?

Both I think.

1.8 kgs heavier than the stock item though ...