Demijohns - Making booze

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Discussion

Gaz3376

Original Poster:

131 posts

108 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
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I've just inherited 6 demijohns from the inlaws. I've done homebrew wine and beer before from kits, which were done in fermentation buckets.

Whats the advantage of demijohns over buckets? and can someone recommend me something to make using them?

C0ffin D0dger

3,440 posts

144 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
quotequote all
Fruit juice wines, colloquially know as Wurzel's Orange Wine or WOW for short. The original orange juice version isn't great however there are many variations and one of my favourites that make a Rose style wine is:

1 carton of red grape juice (1L)
1 carton of apple juice (1L)
Approx 800-900g white sugar, gives a alcohol level ~10-14% depending how much you add.
Mug of strong tea (for tanin)

and you'll need some chemicals from your local home brew shop or Wilkos:

1 tsp Glycerine (supermarket - baking ingredients aisle
1 tsp Pectolase
1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
1 tsp Citric Acid
1 tsp Wine Yeast (Young's Super Wine Yeast Compound is very good)

I started typing out how to make it but realised I'm probably better off linking you to the forum I got the recipie from in the first place: http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t...

I've served this to unsuspecting guests and they hadn't realised they were drinking a homebrewed wine some even commenting how nice it was. Costs less than 50p a bottle to make!

Gaz3376

Original Poster:

131 posts

108 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
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this looks amazing ill give this a go.

Jambo85

3,311 posts

87 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
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Basically they're for stuff you'd do in one gallon batches instead of the 4-5 gallon capacity of buckets. Beer is a bit too much of a PITA to make on a 1 gallon scale IMO but plenty do it.

I use my demijohns mostly for growing up yeast cultures for beer.

Ginger beer/wine is easily made and worth trying.

Although primarily a beer site, Jim's forum has plenty of other things: www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/

Wiccan of Darkness

1,837 posts

82 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
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Found this during morning coffee break so now got a chance to indulge. I have done home brew since I was a sprogget. First, if you use cartons of juice from the supermarket shelves and they don't ferment, then just tip it away. Many have preservatives in them that prevent fermentation. Use ones without artificial preservatives. I tried making a vimto wine aged 14 and it never fermented due to whatever ste they put in it. Should have listened to what my dad said...

The important thing is keeping the demijohns clean. I mean seriously clean, to the point of being anally retentive about it. Once they've gone through the dishwasher twice and you've scrubbed them out with a bottle brush and they're sparkling, you need to sterilise.

Put a bit of water in the bottom and add half a teaspoon of sodium metabisulphite. Buy a bottle of spirits of salt from the DIY store, (hydrochloric acid) and dilute it down by adding one part of acid to 4 parts water. (add the acid to water, not water to acid) Then add about 50ml of this diluted acid to the solution of sodium metabisulphite, and bung in the cork asap, it will give off sulphur dioxide SO2 gas, and that will sterilise the bottles and keep them sterile for a few months. For the love of god, don't get the gas in your eyes or up the nose, it's pretty pungent. Final stage is to remove the cork and immediately fill the demijohn with cold water, empty out, then fill with hot water from the tap. Bingo, sparkly clean demijohn.

Loads of recipes online, once you get the hang of it you can create your own. Right now I have demijohns with the following. x3 elderflower champagne, x2 plum, x2 blackberry port (absolute lush) x2 dandelion, 1 mint champagne, 1 mead, x2 apple and x2 pear from last year. Listening to dozens of demijohns bubbling away is quite satisfying, and the ethereal alcoholic vapours they emit are divine.

Feel free to PM me for advice, I have stashes of various recipes. I'm now at the stage where I shove it all in the demijohn, add a kilo of sugar, ferment fast, rack, and prove without following any recipes. Some don't work, most of them work well, occasionally I get an absolute gem.

Add a pinch of metabisulphite to the water in the air trap and make sure the trap doesn't dry out.

Good luck, I reckon the forums need a home brew thread. I could go on all night about the successes and failures I've had over the last 20 years. Such as the exploding bananas one, or the orange and clove that was both insanely strong and so heavy on the cloves that it made your mouth go numb.

S6PNJ

5,157 posts

280 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
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I have lots of demijohns from my dad's home brewing and wine making - any chance of an elderflower recipe please? I made elderflower champagne (probably actually just fizzy elderflower juice) at primary school in a big black dustbin many MANY years ago and I quite fancy elderflower wine.

Wiccan of Darkness

1,837 posts

82 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
quotequote all
about a pint of loose elderflowers, trimmed from the stems. boil with water in a pan, then tip the lot into the demijohn. Tip in a kilo of sugar, half a pound of raisins (chopped), the juice of 3 lemons (although I boil up 2 lemons, blitz them up and shove that in instead, a teaspoon of grape tannin and fill to 3/4 full, allow to cool down then add the yeast and nutrient. Shake well and ferment violently for 3 days. Top up to 7 pints with more water, ferment for another week, then pour into another demijohn, straining out all the bits.

After 3 weeks, add another half kilo of sugar, top up to the gallon and ferment away. You'll have to rack it again at some point.

Racking is where you carefully siphon off the wine from one demijohn in to another, being careful not to transfer the sediment. It makes for a much clearer wine; all that dead yeast and sludgy bits will collect at the bottom.

  • Rule of thumb. In a 1 gallon demijohn, 1 kilo of sugar makes for a very dry wine. 1.5 kilo's a reasonably medium dry. 2 kilo's a sweet wine. Buy sugar from Lidl, it's 59p a kilo.
Hope that helps.

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

131 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
quotequote all
I've always used Demijohns for wine and buckets for beer.

Cider or Scrumpy is very quick and easy as starter. 3 Litres of supermarket apple juice, wine yeast, nutrient and pectinase. The fresh apple juice will give you a rough Scrumpy and the UHT cartons if you like your cider bright. After 10-14 days it will generally start to clear and settle. If you like your cider strong and sweet you can supplement with sugar to taste. I use 250g of Demerara sugar which gives better final result than pure sucrose.

Mead (Honey Wine) is also pretty easy but takes much longer to finish. 1L of apple juice, 3 jars of pure Honey, wine yeast, nutrient and water. That can ferment for 3 months, let it clear naturally, bottle and leave in cool dark place for at least another 6 months to mature.


Edited by 4x4Tyke on Thursday 13th July 12:43

S6PNJ

5,157 posts

280 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
quotequote all
Wiccan of Darkness said:
......a teaspoon of grape tannin .........then add the yeast and nutrient.
Brilliant! Many thanks, but 3 quick questions - where do I get grape tannin from (Boots beer and wine making section - do they still have one???), how much yeast (I have bread machine yeast and also 'normal bread making yeast - will either of those do)? and what is the nutrient you mention?

My dad always used to use campden tablets and citric acid powder as a sterilising agent for his bottles and demijohns - same end result I guess.

Wiccan of Darkness

1,837 posts

82 months

Wednesday 12th July 2017
quotequote all
S6PNJ said:
Brilliant! Many thanks, but 3 quick questions - where do I get grape tannin from (Boots beer and wine making section - do they still have one???), how much yeast (I have bread machine yeast and also 'normal bread making yeast - will either of those do)? and what is the nutrient you mention?

My dad always used to use campden tablets and citric acid powder as a sterilising agent for his bottles and demijohns - same end result I guess.
1. You can try Boots but many DIY stores do it, my local indy did for ages but no longer. Most people get the stuff from Amazon these days. However this website seems to have it all http://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/.

2. Use a proper wine yeast. Use this sort..


Not this sort of yeast

Bread yeast won't work, there are thousands of different species of yeasts. Hop in to the lovebrewing website and buy a few proper yeasts.

3. The nutrient is sometimes added to a general purpose yeast. It's ammonium phosphate which gives it a bit of a boost. General purpose wine yeast has nutrient added, but individual sachets will just be the yeast. All in one yeast nutrient is advisable for things like mead, and add extra vitamin B12; all in one nutrients have everything, ammonium phosphate, vitamins, minerals and micro nutrients.

I like this website, they have a bit on making your own spirits at home. I do have one or two evil spirits in a bottle, and not the drinking sort...

Campden tablets and citric acid give the same reaction as metabisulphite and hydrochloric, except the former is sassy and fluffy and the latter is industrial strength fk-off-and-die hardcore sanitisation.

Edited to add I didn't answer your other yeast question. Half a sachet in a gallon is fine. Fill a jam jar half full of warm water, add half the sachet to that, with a bit of the multi purpose nutrient, a dessert spoon of sugar and keep it warm, it'll start frothing up, and voila, you've trebled the amount of yeast you had to start with. But half a sachet per gallon is fine, really.

Edited by Wiccan of Darkness on Wednesday 12th July 22:04

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

131 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Wilko stock all the necessary including wine yeast and the nutrient, a flat teaspoon of each is plenty, since yeast is alive it will bloom anyway.

http://www.wilko.com/kitchen/homebrew/icat/homebre...

http://www.wilko.com/homebrew-accessories+equipmen...

The Range have a more limited selection.

https://www.therange.co.uk/search?department=Home%...

The Pectolase is only necessary for wine or if you want to make bright cider, it removes the protein that can make it cloudy. The yeast will settle as the sugar is consumed and it goes dormant, or can be killed off early with stabiliser and settled with finings if you want sweeter drink.

I also got started making Elderflower pop as a kid with my mum.


Edited by 4x4Tyke on Thursday 13th July 01:56

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Demijohns are usually used with an airlock. This prevents oxidation. Beer fermentation is short, and ale yeasts form a crust on top of the fermenting liquid, keeping oxygen out. It's fine in a bucket. Longer fermentation with wine or cider yeasts is better with oxygen excluded by an airlock. Red wines are often initially fermented on the fruit in a bucket before straining into a demijohn for the rest of the process.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
4x4Tyke said:
The Pectolase is only necessary for wine or if you want to make bright cider, it removes the protein that can things cloudy.
To be pedantic - pectolase removes haze caused by pectin, which isn't a protein. Sometimes you can get a protein haze, which it won't fix.

C0ffin D0dger

3,440 posts

144 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Wiccan of Darkness said:
The important thing is keeping the demijohns clean. I mean seriously clean, to the point of being anally retentive about it. Once they've gone through the dishwasher twice and you've scrubbed them out with a bottle brush and they're sparkling, you need to sterilise.

Put a bit of water in the bottom and add half a teaspoon of sodium metabisulphite. Buy a bottle of spirits of salt from the DIY store, (hydrochloric acid) and dilute it down by adding one part of acid to 4 parts water. (add the acid to water, not water to acid) Then add about 50ml of this diluted acid to the solution of sodium metabisulphite, and bung in the cork asap, it will give off sulphur dioxide SO2 gas, and that will sterilise the bottles and keep them sterile for a few months. For the love of god, don't get the gas in your eyes or up the nose, it's pretty pungent. Final stage is to remove the cork and immediately fill the demijohn with cold water, empty out, then fill with hot water from the tap. Bingo, sparkly clean demijohn.
Keeping stuff clean is important but I stopped using sodium metabisulphite for this quite a long time ago because it can be pretty harmful to you respitory system and there are better products now. I use VWP (Google it) to clean my stuff but you can also use diluted bleach, baby bottle cleaning products (Milton) or Oxy cleaner (sodium percarbonate). For final sanitization I use StarSan (again Google it) diluted according to the instructions, this is a "no rinse" sanitiser so just prior to using the previously cleaned demijohn you pour a dash of this is, give it a shake, leave it for a few minutes and then pour it away. The demijohn is now ready for use, do not rinse it. The StarSan may leave some foam but don't worry about this, small amounts in the brew won't do any harm. Whilst all these chemicals are harmful none are anywhere near as bad as sodium metabisulphite + acid. Just take care with the undiluted StarSan as it's quite corrosive.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
SO2 fumes can be particularly dangerous for asthmatics.

Gaz3376

Original Poster:

131 posts

108 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
4x4Tyke said:
I've always used Demijohns for wine and buckets for beer.

Cider or Scrumpy is very quick and easy as starter. 3 Litres of supermarket apple juice, wine yeast, nutrient and pectinase. The fresh apple juice will give you a rough Scrumpy and the UHT cartons if you like your cider bright. After 10-14 days it will generally start to clear and settle. If you like your cider strong and sweet you can supplement with sugar to taste. I use 250g of Demerara sugar which gives better final result than pure sucrose.

Mead (Honey Wine) is also pretty easy but takes much longer to finish. 1L of apple juice, 3 jars of pure Honey, wine yeast and nutrient. That can ferment for 3 months, let it clear naturally, bottle and leave in cool dark place for at least another 6 months.


Edited by 4x4Tyke on Wednesday 12th July 20:14
Do you add the demerara when bottling, will this contribute to the alcohol content?

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Gaz3376 said:
Do you add the demerara when bottling, will this contribute to the alcohol content?
If you add that amount of sugar when bottling, it will contribute to the alcohol content of your walls and ceilings!

Sugar added at the start will ferment to increase the alcohol. If you want a sparkling finish, you add a tiny amount more sugar at the point of bottling, which ferments in the bottle to add CO2. If you add a large amount of sugar, or bottle something that is still fermenting, it's likely your bottles will blow their tops or explode.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
And if you want a sweet finish, you need to either add enough sugar that there is some left after the alcohol has killed the yeast or you add a non-fermentable artificial sweetener. Producing a naturally sweet sparkling brew is difficult.

Gaz3376

Original Poster:

131 posts

108 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Thanks, I will try your cider recipe this weekend - looks easy enough.

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

131 months

Thursday 13th July 2017
quotequote all
Gaz3376 said:
4x4Tyke said:
I've always used Demijohns for wine and buckets for beer.

Cider or Scrumpy is very quick and easy as starter. 3 Litres of supermarket apple juice, wine yeast, nutrient and pectinase. The fresh apple juice will give you a rough Scrumpy and the UHT cartons if you like your cider bright. After 10-14 days it will generally start to clear and settle. If you like your cider strong and sweet you can supplement with sugar to taste. I use 250g of Demerara sugar which gives better final result than pure sucrose.

Mead (Honey Wine) is also pretty easy but takes much longer to finish. 1L of apple juice, 3 jars of pure Honey, wine yeast and nutrient. That can ferment for 3 months, let it clear naturally, bottle and leave in cool dark place for at least another 6 months.
Do you add the demerara when bottling, will this contribute to the alcohol content?
Sugar that you want to be turned into alcohol should be added when the mix is first made up, but could be added anytime before stabilisation (when the yeast is killed). Alcohol vs. sweetness is a trade off, but there is a cap on the alcohol since alcohol inhibits the yeast, at that point extra sugar will increase the sweetness but not alcohol. If you let it self stabilise, then 250g will give you strong medium dry result, 500g will give you a strong medium to medium-sweet cider, 600-700g will give a very sweet cider. Apple juice is around 10% sugar already, so 3L already includes around 300g of sugar.

The reason to add sugar when bottling is to make the mixture sparkling (fizzy) and you only need a little to do this, a half flat teaspoon. Add too much sugar at bottling and you risk the bottle exploding. When bottling sparkling leave plenty of air in the bottle neck.

You can control this closely with a hydrometer this but I didn't want to complicate things too much.

I recommend going with the first recipe and than adjusting things to taste, it will be pretty strong, above 10% alcohol.



Edited by 4x4Tyke on Wednesday 19th July 10:31