Guys - need advice with spec of car
Discussion
Looking into ordering a new Caterham and have spent ages researching pros / cons of different models and spec etc
Car will be 95% for road use... my current thoughts are that a 310s could be the sweet spot for this sort of use (maybe I'm wrong)
Also whats the consensus on most suitable wheels - stick with the standard 14's or go for 13's?
Any must have options?
Would appreciate and thoughts / advice
Thanks
Car will be 95% for road use... my current thoughts are that a 310s could be the sweet spot for this sort of use (maybe I'm wrong)
Also whats the consensus on most suitable wheels - stick with the standard 14's or go for 13's?
Any must have options?
Would appreciate and thoughts / advice
Thanks
I occasionally feel my K series Supersport r is over tyred with the 8" wide rears but I usually overcome this by being a bit more aggressive with it.
I'm essentially R300 so you should be fine with same on 310s.
For looks alone the 8" wheel is worth it! the 6" just look lost on the back in my opinion.
Dave
I'm essentially R300 so you should be fine with same on 310s.
For looks alone the 8" wheel is worth it! the 6" just look lost on the back in my opinion.
Dave
13" wheels give the better ride and handling. Bigger wheels are purely for the aesthetics. Although to me I think 13" wheels look "correct" and anything bigger looks odd.
I have a 150 bhp sigma and 6" rears. I feel 8" rears on my car would be a mistake and probably result in unnecessary understeer with no benefit.
As it is in the dry, I have to rely on unsettling the car or a bumpy road to get the back moving about much. I can use full throttle pretty much everywhere without traction issues - perhaps with a 1/8th turn opposite lock on the tightest of 1st gear corners.
I have an LSD and my rear anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting by the way.
I have a 150 bhp sigma and 6" rears. I feel 8" rears on my car would be a mistake and probably result in unnecessary understeer with no benefit.
As it is in the dry, I have to rely on unsettling the car or a bumpy road to get the back moving about much. I can use full throttle pretty much everywhere without traction issues - perhaps with a 1/8th turn opposite lock on the tightest of 1st gear corners.
I have an LSD and my rear anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting by the way.
Edited by mharris on Thursday 20th July 16:07
mharris said:
13" wheels give the better ride and handling. Bigger wheels are purely for the aesthetics. Although to me I think 13" wheels look "correct" and anything bigger looks odd.
I have a 150 bhp sigma and 6" rears. I feel 8" rears on my car would be a mistake and probably result in unnecessary understeer with no benefit.
As it is in the dry, I have to rely on unsettling the car or a bumpy road to get the back moving about much. I can use full throttle pretty much everywhere without traction issues - perhaps with a 1/8th turn opposite lock on the tightest of 1st gear corners.
I have an LSD and my rear anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting by the way.
Yea - that was exactly my thought processI have a 150 bhp sigma and 6" rears. I feel 8" rears on my car would be a mistake and probably result in unnecessary understeer with no benefit.
As it is in the dry, I have to rely on unsettling the car or a bumpy road to get the back moving about much. I can use full throttle pretty much everywhere without traction issues - perhaps with a 1/8th turn opposite lock on the tightest of 1st gear corners.
I have an LSD and my rear anti-roll bar on the stiffest setting by the way.
Edited by mharris on Thursday 20th July 16:07
Worth adding a rear anti-roll bar or ok without for road use?
Jim560 said:
Worth adding a rear anti-roll bar or ok without for road use?
If you like tweaking things then I would recommend getting one. It has 8 settings from completely disconnected to fully stiff. Takes literally 5 minutes to change setting so you can experiment and see what you like. Probably the easiest way to dial in how much oversteer you get and is very useful for switching between wet and dry conditions.Interesting in so much as mine (bog standard 1.6k on 13x6 rears) has plenty of oversteer with the bar full soft. Might be worth trying to find more front end grip rather than loosing it at the rear - which is basically what a stiffer bar is doing..
Also if you don't have an LSD I'd be inclined to suggest that too much rear roll stiffness is a bad thing.
Also if you don't have an LSD I'd be inclined to suggest that too much rear roll stiffness is a bad thing.
upsidedownmark said:
Interesting in so much as mine (bog standard 1.6k on 13x6 rears) has plenty of oversteer with the bar full soft. Might be worth trying to find more front end grip rather than loosing it at the rear - which is basically what a stiffer bar is doing..
Also if you don't have an LSD I'd be inclined to suggest that too much rear roll stiffness is a bad thing.
Yeah I agree with that entirely..Also if you don't have an LSD I'd be inclined to suggest that too much rear roll stiffness is a bad thing.
I've had a geometry setup from someone who (I assume) knows what they're doing. I could go 1 softer on the front bar, or disconnect it completely. However I suspect that the real issue is that I have a watts linkage. With radius arms there is a noticeable element of passive rear wheel steer. The watts linkage eliminates that rear wheel steer.
Upsidedownmark do you have radius arms or watts linkage?
Ex academy car (on CR500's, not the ditchfinders) - ?orange? front ARB, not adjustable. Quite a bit of negative camber (not measured), lower wishbones level, radius arms in the lower position, and what (by eye) looks like a bit of rake, zf lsd. On track it doesn't understeer anywhere, feel like I could go quicker if I made the front work harder, but very much getting used to the car for now - my only change was to move the rear bar full soft - hard was amusingly slidey, but not fast 
I have bookmarked this as I am in the process of deciding what my next car should be.
I really want a Caterham as I have always loved them but I want to re-create the driving feel of my Westfield XI. The XI had virtually no understeer but oversteer galore entirely controllable with the right foot.
My thoughts at the moment are 420R but the 310 keeps popping up as the sweet spot. I do think that there is a tendency at the moment to equate grip with handling hence the wider, stickier tyres. Yes, you may be lapping quicker but I like the eminently controllable slides and the fact that I didn't need to buy new tyres after every track session.
The other car that takes my eye is the Atom, (I like the Nomad but the rest of the family don't).
The only thing that puts me off a Caterham is some of the owners. I get close to pushing the button, then you get some heritage beardy spouting off about how the Caterham is not a kitcar and everyone else is completely beneath contempt, and I just think do I want to be associated with them. This week I got kicked off an Facebook forum for pointing out that someone was bringing the marque into disrepute with their high and mighty attitude and boom I'm out. No great loss to me but these are the sort of people that really put me off.
I really want a Caterham as I have always loved them but I want to re-create the driving feel of my Westfield XI. The XI had virtually no understeer but oversteer galore entirely controllable with the right foot.
My thoughts at the moment are 420R but the 310 keeps popping up as the sweet spot. I do think that there is a tendency at the moment to equate grip with handling hence the wider, stickier tyres. Yes, you may be lapping quicker but I like the eminently controllable slides and the fact that I didn't need to buy new tyres after every track session.
The other car that takes my eye is the Atom, (I like the Nomad but the rest of the family don't).
The only thing that puts me off a Caterham is some of the owners. I get close to pushing the button, then you get some heritage beardy spouting off about how the Caterham is not a kitcar and everyone else is completely beneath contempt, and I just think do I want to be associated with them. This week I got kicked off an Facebook forum for pointing out that someone was bringing the marque into disrepute with their high and mighty attitude and boom I'm out. No great loss to me but these are the sort of people that really put me off.
FWIW, I saw that, and... WTF.
I guess it's one man's sandbox, he can play as he pleases and doesn't like criticism/dissent, but I don't think it's reflective of the majority - so far ownership has been a pleasantly positive experience. I don't know the westie in question, but the de-dion has a significant influence on the caterham, IMHO it needs a diff more than any other car I've driven.
The atom is a very different driving experience. End of the day you're buying a car and a driving experience, not the owners Drive a few, go talk to some smart people, and see what you think/like..
I guess it's one man's sandbox, he can play as he pleases and doesn't like criticism/dissent, but I don't think it's reflective of the majority - so far ownership has been a pleasantly positive experience. I don't know the westie in question, but the de-dion has a significant influence on the caterham, IMHO it needs a diff more than any other car I've driven.
The atom is a very different driving experience. End of the day you're buying a car and a driving experience, not the owners
Drive a few, go talk to some smart people, and see what you think/like..Edited by upsidedownmark on Wednesday 2nd August 13:52
I understand that perception of Caterham owners. The first year I went along to a few L7C events and it just wasn't for me. The personality types and activities just didn't match up with what I wanted out of the car and a club. No big deal, I just didn't renew my membership.
I think the issue with Caterhams is that they have such a broad range of ability and appeal that they attract all different types of people. Everything from racers, track-day warriors, home mechanics, Sunday drivers, polishers, all the way through to people who are mostly there for the social aspect and would rather be standing around talking about themselves and their car. The important thing is to identify where you fit in and interact with those sub communities. I've got a bunch of friends (not all in Caterhams) and we do lots of trackdays and go for the odd early morning drive on a Sunday. That suits us because that's what we want out of the cars and each other. The wider Caterham community doesn't really have much to offer us beyond the odd bit of technical/mechanical advice (which it is very useful for!).
I think the issue with Caterhams is that they have such a broad range of ability and appeal that they attract all different types of people. Everything from racers, track-day warriors, home mechanics, Sunday drivers, polishers, all the way through to people who are mostly there for the social aspect and would rather be standing around talking about themselves and their car. The important thing is to identify where you fit in and interact with those sub communities. I've got a bunch of friends (not all in Caterhams) and we do lots of trackdays and go for the odd early morning drive on a Sunday. That suits us because that's what we want out of the cars and each other. The wider Caterham community doesn't really have much to offer us beyond the odd bit of technical/mechanical advice (which it is very useful for!).
mharris said:
I understand that perception of Caterham owners. The first year I went along to a few L7C events and it just wasn't for me. The personality types and activities just didn't match up with what I wanted out of the car and a club. No big deal, I just didn't renew my membership.
I think the issue with Caterhams is that they have such a broad range of ability and appeal that they attract all different types of people. Everything from racers, track-day warriors, home mechanics, Sunday drivers, polishers, all the way through to people who are mostly there for the social aspect and would rather be standing around talking about themselves and their car. The important thing is to identify where you fit in and interact with those sub communities. I've got a bunch of friends (not all in Caterhams) and we do lots of trackdays and go for the odd early morning drive on a Sunday. That suits us because that's what we want out of the cars and each other. The wider Caterham community doesn't really have much to offer us beyond the odd bit of technical/mechanical advice (which it is very useful for!).
Echos my sentiments. I'm not in the L7C.I think the issue with Caterhams is that they have such a broad range of ability and appeal that they attract all different types of people. Everything from racers, track-day warriors, home mechanics, Sunday drivers, polishers, all the way through to people who are mostly there for the social aspect and would rather be standing around talking about themselves and their car. The important thing is to identify where you fit in and interact with those sub communities. I've got a bunch of friends (not all in Caterhams) and we do lots of trackdays and go for the odd early morning drive on a Sunday. That suits us because that's what we want out of the cars and each other. The wider Caterham community doesn't really have much to offer us beyond the odd bit of technical/mechanical advice (which it is very useful for!).
It's only a car at the end of the day.
You can take or leave the owners club, I'm in and have met some really nice people. As usual, the ones I've met face to face are far nicer than some of the keyboard warriors.
Going back to the Westfield handling, the standard Caterham road set up with DeDion trailing arms and A frame and narrow track front works very well. My Roadsport doesn't even have adjustable spring platforms and it handled really well from the start. Understeer isn't an issue the way I drive, and the only mod I have done is fit a plate LSD. On a car limits day, it definitely oversteered at the limit in the dry, and on Uniroyal Rain Experts, it was very controllable.
Going back to the Westfield handling, the standard Caterham road set up with DeDion trailing arms and A frame and narrow track front works very well. My Roadsport doesn't even have adjustable spring platforms and it handled really well from the start. Understeer isn't an issue the way I drive, and the only mod I have done is fit a plate LSD. On a car limits day, it definitely oversteered at the limit in the dry, and on Uniroyal Rain Experts, it was very controllable.
downsman said:
Going back to the Westfield handling, the standard Caterham road set up with DeDion trailing arms and A frame and narrow track front works very well. My Roadsport doesn't even have adjustable spring platforms and it handled really well from the start. Understeer isn't an issue the way I drive, and the only mod I have done is fit a plate LSD. On a car limits day, it definitely oversteered at the limit in the dry, and on Uniroyal Rain Experts, it was very controllable.
The XI has a live axle (from a Midget) and narrow, hard, tyres (well on mine anyway!). The car would turn in very well, then the back end could be provoked to slide dependent entirely upon your right foot. Go into the bend even faster and you could provoke a lovely 4 wheel drift and sweep round a corner. You had to go really mad to get the car to spin. Unfortunately, these aren't really traits that I can try for on a test drive! My thoughts are to maybe go for narrower tyres to reduce overall levels of grip, I'm not that interested in maximum speed laps, I am selling the Ultima as it is just far too capable to have this sort of fun (and tyres are a bit more too!) I think that modern track day slicks narrow the window between slide and spin which is where I had most fun, whereas, hopefully, harder narrower tyres will widen the fun band. Yes, I will lap slower, but I don't care.
Of all the pieces of advice here, if find the cut-off switch to be the most important.
I've had different sized wheels, windscreen/aeroscreen, LSD/open, but the thing that would increase my happiness most at the moment is a cut-off switch!
Unless you're planning to plug the car into a trickle charger every time, it's just painful not to have a cut-off switch. Having to guess how many days it might be before the next drive, deciding whether or not to take the bonnet off and manually disconnect the battery, then deciding not to, then coming back after a week and the car won't start, is just a PITA.
But that aside, I settled on 13", ATB LSD (I find it perfect for the road and occasional track), & Aeroscreen.
I've had different sized wheels, windscreen/aeroscreen, LSD/open, but the thing that would increase my happiness most at the moment is a cut-off switch!
Unless you're planning to plug the car into a trickle charger every time, it's just painful not to have a cut-off switch. Having to guess how many days it might be before the next drive, deciding whether or not to take the bonnet off and manually disconnect the battery, then deciding not to, then coming back after a week and the car won't start, is just a PITA.
But that aside, I settled on 13", ATB LSD (I find it perfect for the road and occasional track), & Aeroscreen.
I already have an Optimate (I actually have 2 but one will go with the Ultima) so all I will do is fix up a connector so that I can put the car in the garage,jump out and plug it in, shut the door and go in the house!
I think I got mine on Ebay for very little money (look for a lawnmower one!)
I think I got mine on Ebay for very little money (look for a lawnmower one!)
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