Fast Road Tuition
Discussion
I was wondering if any AD drivers could give me advice on next steps.
My fun car is a '89 911. Previously I've had Lotus.
Had a wonderful drive on Monday in the Sunshine. York up to Middleton in Teesdale. Around 200 miles and the majority in 2nd or 3rd gear. Fabulous.
I did get caught out a couple of times and I definitely had one moment where I was flat through a section and on exit could feel the car lifting.
I completed IAM around 4 years ago. ROPSA the following year. Sadly I fell out of love with the clubs for various reasons and now only maintain a contribution to my local group and go along to the odd talk.
They would be my first call but I don't think they will be able to help. Plodding round the same local roads in a style that allows your passengers to sleep in comfort is not really what I'm after.
Prior to the ROSPA I did go on one of the ADUK days and also went out with a HPC member from Leeds. That was more in line with what I'm thinking of. Looking at the HPC I don't think I'm at the standard to start being so long away from when I last did any proper training. I do go along to IAM every 6 months or so for a 'check drive' but tbh i've not found it massive amount of use.
I've done track days. Did about 8 last year and maybe 20 total. Fun but doesn't really prepare you for the many scenarios you can face on the road.
Any suggestions on where to go for some training?
Need more of this in my life
My fun car is a '89 911. Previously I've had Lotus.
Had a wonderful drive on Monday in the Sunshine. York up to Middleton in Teesdale. Around 200 miles and the majority in 2nd or 3rd gear. Fabulous.
I did get caught out a couple of times and I definitely had one moment where I was flat through a section and on exit could feel the car lifting.
I completed IAM around 4 years ago. ROPSA the following year. Sadly I fell out of love with the clubs for various reasons and now only maintain a contribution to my local group and go along to the odd talk.
They would be my first call but I don't think they will be able to help. Plodding round the same local roads in a style that allows your passengers to sleep in comfort is not really what I'm after.
Prior to the ROSPA I did go on one of the ADUK days and also went out with a HPC member from Leeds. That was more in line with what I'm thinking of. Looking at the HPC I don't think I'm at the standard to start being so long away from when I last did any proper training. I do go along to IAM every 6 months or so for a 'check drive' but tbh i've not found it massive amount of use.
I've done track days. Did about 8 last year and maybe 20 total. Fun but doesn't really prepare you for the many scenarios you can face on the road.
Any suggestions on where to go for some training?
Need more of this in my life
Edited by Rick101 on Thursday 20th July 10:09
Options:
IAM and RoSPA groups will contain people with a spread of attitudes and abilities - find the right person in the right group and that could be a good way to go. The IAM Masters programme is more likely to be provided by enthusiasts, but there's no guarantee you'll get the right help.
ADHub (formerly ADUK) driving days can be good for meeting like-minded people, but don't happen very often and even less so in the North. Organise your own?
Book individual days with coaches. Expensive, but more likely to be high-quality. Reg would be the obvious suggestion, but there are others.
Contact a High Performance Course course manager and ask for advice. The usual procedure is a half-day assessment followed by the two-day course, with the opportunity to work on any issues in between. You may be put in touch with someone who has done the course and can help you prepare - I'm working with someone at the moment before they do their two days.
Good luck - you'll need a certain amount of motivation to find the right help, but it'll be worth it - particularly with that car.
IAM and RoSPA groups will contain people with a spread of attitudes and abilities - find the right person in the right group and that could be a good way to go. The IAM Masters programme is more likely to be provided by enthusiasts, but there's no guarantee you'll get the right help.
ADHub (formerly ADUK) driving days can be good for meeting like-minded people, but don't happen very often and even less so in the North. Organise your own?
Book individual days with coaches. Expensive, but more likely to be high-quality. Reg would be the obvious suggestion, but there are others.
Contact a High Performance Course course manager and ask for advice. The usual procedure is a half-day assessment followed by the two-day course, with the opportunity to work on any issues in between. You may be put in touch with someone who has done the course and can help you prepare - I'm working with someone at the moment before they do their two days.
Good luck - you'll need a certain amount of motivation to find the right help, but it'll be worth it - particularly with that car.
I have looked at HPC before and had a couple of HPC drives. It does look worthwhile but I'm not sure it's entirely what I'm looking for.
I always found the other two AD paths very regimented. I was able to perform as requested and get the pass/gold but there were several things I did not agree with, or in fact found to be unsafe. That is the main reason I declined to continue down the observer path. I was simply not willing to sit there telling someone to do something which I thought was wrong.
that's probably my concern looking at HPC. It has a good wide ranging syllabus, but as with any fixed criteria, you need to play it to get the result you want.
I have little interest in any title, badge or accreditation. I simply want to be more confident in the car. I think that will come with learning more about suspension and dynamics, and of course simply getting more miles on the road.
The other option I'm considering is simply going out with friend who is competent suspension and is able to carry a good turn of speed. ~I trust his judgement and will be able to have 2 or 3 drives over 2 or 3 months so will have time to learn, practice, learn etc.
As I understand it, HPC is at a level where you are expected to learn independently. Is that correct?
I always found the other two AD paths very regimented. I was able to perform as requested and get the pass/gold but there were several things I did not agree with, or in fact found to be unsafe. That is the main reason I declined to continue down the observer path. I was simply not willing to sit there telling someone to do something which I thought was wrong.
that's probably my concern looking at HPC. It has a good wide ranging syllabus, but as with any fixed criteria, you need to play it to get the result you want.
I have little interest in any title, badge or accreditation. I simply want to be more confident in the car. I think that will come with learning more about suspension and dynamics, and of course simply getting more miles on the road.
The other option I'm considering is simply going out with friend who is competent suspension and is able to carry a good turn of speed. ~I trust his judgement and will be able to have 2 or 3 drives over 2 or 3 months so will have time to learn, practice, learn etc.
As I understand it, HPC is at a level where you are expected to learn independently. Is that correct?
Edited by Rick101 on Friday 21st July 07:57
Rick101 said:
I have looked at HPC before and had a couple of HPC drives. It does look worthwhile but I'm not sure it's entirely what I'm looking for.
I always found the other two AD paths very regimented. I was able to perform as requested and get the pass/gold but there were several things I did not agree with, or in fact found to be unsafe. That is the main reason I refused to continue down the observer path. I was simply not willing to sit there telling someone to do something which I thought was wrong.
that's probably my concern looking at HPC. It has a good wide ranging syllabus, but as with any fixed criteria, you need to play it to get the result you want.
I have little interest in any title, badge or accreditation. I simply want to be more confident in the car. I think that will come with learning more about suspension and dynamics, and of course simply getting more miles on the road.
The other option I'm considering is simply going out with friend who is competent suspension and is able to carry a good turn of speed. ~I trust his judgement and will be able to have 2 or 3 drives over 2 or 3 months so will have time to learn, practice, learn etc.
As I understand it, HPC is at a level where you are expected to learn independently. Is that correct?
Reg LocalI always found the other two AD paths very regimented. I was able to perform as requested and get the pass/gold but there were several things I did not agree with, or in fact found to be unsafe. That is the main reason I refused to continue down the observer path. I was simply not willing to sit there telling someone to do something which I thought was wrong.
that's probably my concern looking at HPC. It has a good wide ranging syllabus, but as with any fixed criteria, you need to play it to get the result you want.
I have little interest in any title, badge or accreditation. I simply want to be more confident in the car. I think that will come with learning more about suspension and dynamics, and of course simply getting more miles on the road.
The other option I'm considering is simply going out with friend who is competent suspension and is able to carry a good turn of speed. ~I trust his judgement and will be able to have 2 or 3 drives over 2 or 3 months so will have time to learn, practice, learn etc.
As I understand it, HPC is at a level where you are expected to learn independently. Is that correct?
Rick101 said:
I always found the other two AD paths very regimented. I was able to perform as requested and get the pass/gold but there were several things I did not agree with, or in fact found to be unsafe. That is the main reason I declined to continue down the observer path. I was simply not willing to sit there telling someone to do something which I thought was wrong.
What kind of things did you disagree with?I think a lot of the value of the professional coaches is the opportunity to discuss different techniques and they have the reasoning behind them to explain or demonstrate what the benefits are. I get the impression that some observers merely tell you to do something because that's what they were told and don't have the full understanding behind it.
The coaches like Reg, Andy and Clive etc. are in no way trying to create clones of themselves, but there to pick up on weaknesses (not one off mistakes, but identifying repeated errors), where they occur, what may be the cause and suggest some things you can try.
If you disagree with off siding for example they would be best placed to have the discussion as to the merits of the technique, where it is/is not appropriate, demonstrate it to you, and if you're still not happy then they'll accept it and work with you to improve your driving within those constraints. You won't be sent off or fail the course as long as your open to exploring the ideas before dismissing them. What works for one doesn't work for another but the main thing is to be a "thinking" driver rather than do it because someone told you to.
It's not all about learning independently, many people who have completed the High Performance Course continue to go back to the coaches on an annual basis for a day/half day to help develop beyond where they got to during the course.
And yes, I think Reg is located somewhere around Manchester
IcedKiwi said:
What kind of things did you disagree with?
I think a lot of the value of the professional coaches is the opportunity to discuss different techniques and they have the reasoning behind them to explain or demonstrate what the benefits are. I get the impression that some observers merely tell you to do something because that's what they were told and don't have the full understanding behind it.
I put my belt on after getting in the car. I was told I have to start the car before belting up. The reason given was that car engines are very complicated and there are very high voltages when starting a car so that is the most likely time for it to go up in flames. If I have my belt on I won't be able to get out as quick.I think a lot of the value of the professional coaches is the opportunity to discuss different techniques and they have the reasoning behind them to explain or demonstrate what the benefits are. I get the impression that some observers merely tell you to do something because that's what they were told and don't have the full understanding behind it.
Seriously.
I think they'd have actually s
t if I turned up in my Exige with full harnesses.Edited by Rick101 on Friday 21st July 10:04
Rick101 said:
I put my belt on after getting in the car. I was told I have to start the car before belting up. The reason given was that car engines are very complicated and there are very high voltages when starting a car so that is the most likely time for it to go up in flames. If I have my belt on I won't be able to get out as quick.
Seriously.
I think they'd have actually st if I turned up in my Exige with full harnesses.
I had the same sort of thing with the IAM observers - however when I did my exam I didn't use pull push at all and still got a F1RST. It was enough to put me off the organisation though - they genuinely believe they are 100% correct on everything driving.Seriously.
I think they'd have actually s
t if I turned up in my Exige with full harnesses.Edited by Rick101 on Friday 21st July 10:04
That pearl of wisdom was IAM too. I'm glad I did it, I learnt useful stuff but there is a lot of rubbish around the good bits.
Probably why I'm reluctant to do anything too syllabus based.
It's in the book. It must be true, like the bible. It can never be changed. Ever.
Until the next version comes out of course.
Edit - Now booked in with Reg.
Probably why I'm reluctant to do anything too syllabus based.
It's in the book. It must be true, like the bible. It can never be changed. Ever.
Until the next version comes out of course.
Edit - Now booked in with Reg.
Edited by Rick101 on Friday 21st July 10:59
Rick101 said:
I have little interest in any title, badge or accreditation.
Snap! IcedKiwi said:
And yes, I think Reg is located somewhere around Manchester
A bit further up the map (Fred Dibnah country).Rick101 said:
Edit - Now booked in with Reg.
I had a session with him two weeks ago. 
If, at the end of the day, you don't feel like this chap I'll eat my hat.
Rick101 said:
I put my belt on after getting in the car. I was told I have to start the car before belting up. The reason given was that car engines are very complicated and there are very high voltages when starting a car so that is the most likely time for it to go up in flames. If I have my belt on I won't be able to get out as quick.
Seriously.
Like all things "advanced driving", it just depends.Seriously.
The seat belt recommendation is excellent advice, potentially a life-saving imperative when one is starting the engine of a TVR.
Rick101 said:
Excellent. So, what is that car that is the American equivalent of a TVR? Rick101 said:
I put my belt on after getting in the car. I was told I have to start the car before belting up. The reason given was that car engines are very complicated and there are very high voltages when starting a car so that is the most likely time for it to go up in flames. If I have my belt on I won't be able to get out as quick.
Seriously.
I think they'd have actually st if I turned up in my Exige with full harnesses.
As an aside, in RoADAR I was told if I started the engine without my seat belt on it would be an instant fail. The theory being that if the engine is running you're technically driving so legally must be wearing the seat-belt.Seriously.
I think they'd have actually s
t if I turned up in my Exige with full harnesses.Edited by Rick101 on Friday 21st July 10:04
My local IAM wanted the exploding car version.
Tricky stuff this advanced driving!
It was a historic thing for me. 20 years ago now but still remember the instructor explaining that was quite possible to get shunted from the rear whilst sat parked at the side of the road so his advice was to belt up as soon as possible.
Seems more likley to happen than the fireball above.
Seems more likley to happen than the fireball above.
Vaux said:
As an aside, in RoADAR I was told if I started the engine without my seat belt on it would be an instant fail. The theory being that if the engine is running you're technically driving so legally must be wearing the seat-belt.
My local IAM wanted the exploding car version.
Tricky stuff this advanced driving!
You're right, it is more than a bit tricky. My local IAM wanted the exploding car version.
Tricky stuff this advanced driving!
One of the essential arts of advanced driving is being able to spot the b*ll*cks at source; just as soon as it is spouted by the misguided "advanced driving expert" . Unfortunately, most of those new to advanced driving and who are unable to "spot the b*ll*cks", or not alert to its existence, are put off the whole process and then reject both the IAM and RoSPA because they're spouting b*ll*cks. Which they are. But, those of us versed in the art of being immediately able to identify b*ll*cks just ignore it and do our own thing. which includes observing/tutoring for the IAM and RoSPA. Don't forget the old adage... the rules of advance driving consist of 20% things we must do, 20% things we must not do and 60% things we argue about interminably. And, in addition, 50% or more of that 60% consists of pure b*ll*cks.
Vaux said:
As an aside, in RoADAR I was told if I started the engine without my seat belt on it would be an instant fail. The theory being that if the engine is running you're technically driving so legally must be wearing the seat-belt.
This is pure b*ll*cks of the kind alluded to in my earlier post. It's the sort of nonsense which can put "sensible" drivers off advanced driving. A driver isn't required by law to wear a seat belt when reversing. So, according to the RoADAR "b*ll*cks spouter", if one was starting the engine immediately prior to reversing, the procedure would be... fasten seat belt, turn engine on, put car into reverse, unfasten seat belt before half-turning to look over one's shoulder and then moving backwards. Or, maybe he would have been happier if the seat belt was unfastened immediately after starting to reverse in order to avoid any technical breach of the law. He's an idiot. https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-ne...
Edited by johnao on Monday 24th July 18:41
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