Anyone for ‘T’
Discussion
Phooey said:
Selling like hot cakes... my OPC done 9 deposits so far. I'm not surprised tbh - it'll be a fun car (PDK a no no) with very minimal depreciation. One thing I think will appeal as well is this car doesn't need much money spent on extras so if you keep it to £90k or under it'll work out quite cheap on a monthly payment as 911's (especially anything a little bit different) have big GFV's. Poverty spec is wise spec.
Do you think so depreciation wise?I dunno, it's not that long until the "new" 911, which will probably have improved epas etc, & maybe a T model earlier on?
Having said that I'm considering one to replace a GT4, the rear seats are a big advantage.
ags11 said:
Do you think so depreciation wise?
I dunno, it's not that long until the "new" 911, which will probably have improved epas etc, & maybe a T model earlier on?
Having said that I'm considering one to replace a GT4, the rear seats are a big advantage.
Next 911 unlikely to arrive before 2019I dunno, it's not that long until the "new" 911, which will probably have improved epas etc, & maybe a T model earlier on?
Having said that I'm considering one to replace a GT4, the rear seats are a big advantage.
rob.kellock said:
Yup, agree completely.
My Porsche Code is PJFINDP2
Ordered mine on Wednesday evening. Very excited indeed, my first every built to order Porsche. Believe I am second in the queue at my friendly local Porsche Centre but that they have 5 orders already.
This will be a superb all rounder.
Looking forward to seeing it Rob My Porsche Code is PJFINDP2
Ordered mine on Wednesday evening. Very excited indeed, my first every built to order Porsche. Believe I am second in the queue at my friendly local Porsche Centre but that they have 5 orders already.
This will be a superb all rounder.
WizzBang said:
The T is a re-mixing of the ingredients. A new recipe if you like. We have yet to drive it so we don't know if it's a success but the signs are encouraging.
Porsche has been building turbo road cars since 1975 - that's 42 years. They are very real and here to stay. We have to accept this, just as we did when Porsche went water-cooled, and move on.
No one is going to be considering £150k Huracan v £150k McLaren v £80k T.
Yes they have been building turbos for 42 years as a top of the range bragging rights edition for those who have plenty of money, like showing off their acceleration up motorway slip roads and having 4WD for safety but don't know much about Porsches. Most have been NA. The best thing anyone said to me about a Porsche I was driving was 'it howls like a wolf'. So it did, it was one of the most exhilarating cars I have ever driven. The current lot are very well constructed and highly competent but they don't howl, they fart like dyspeptic heifers and why anyone would want one beats me. My last Porsche, and it will be my last, was a 981 GTS 6 cylinder NA which was brilliant. Not sure why everyone is going on about residual values. The only ones worth having and which really will hold their value are the ones they won't sell you or me.Porsche has been building turbo road cars since 1975 - that's 42 years. They are very real and here to stay. We have to accept this, just as we did when Porsche went water-cooled, and move on.
No one is going to be considering £150k Huracan v £150k McLaren v £80k T.
Anyone who is considering a GT3 but can't get one is going to be considering a McLaren, I am, and also the Huracan. Anyone who is considering a 911T should be thinking about the new AM Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, or a BMW M car because the 911 just doesn't have what it once did, though I grant you they have become brilliant badge engineers. One reason they are the most profitable car company in the world. The other is that they can sell con tricks like the 911T.
cardigankid said:
Anyone who is considering a GT3 but can't get one is going to be considering a McLaren, I am, and also the Huracan. Anyone who is considering a 911T should be thinking about the new AM Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, or a BMW M car because the 911 just doesn't have what it once did,
BMW M cars don't have what they once did either....they used to be head and shoulders above the competition but not any more. The engine on the current M3/4 just sounds utterly s
t at idle....I really couldn't believe how bad it was when I first heard it. I then drove one on a country road and fk me it was shocking. That was a couple of years ago and I understand they've improved the chassis but that wouldn't be difficult. cardigankid said:
Yes they have been building turbos for 42 years as a top of the range bragging rights edition for those who have plenty of money, like showing off their acceleration up motorway slip roads and having 4WD for safety but don't know much about Porsches. Most have been NA. The best thing anyone said to me about a Porsche I was driving was 'it howls like a wolf'. So it did, it was one of the most exhilarating cars I have ever driven. The current lot are very well constructed and highly competent but they don't howl, they fart like dyspeptic heifers and why anyone would want one beats me. My last Porsche, and it will be my last, was a 981 GTS 6 cylinder NA which was brilliant. Not sure why everyone is going on about residual values. The only ones worth having and which really will hold their value are the ones they won't sell you or me.
Anyone who is considering a GT3 but can't get one is going to be considering a McLaren, I am, and also the Huracan. Anyone who is considering a 911T should be thinking about the new AM Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, or a BMW M car because the 911 just doesn't have what it once did, though I grant you they have become brilliant badge engineers. One reason they are the most profitable car company in the world. The other is that they can sell con tricks like the 911T.
Sounds a bit sour grapes. Porsche are pretty much top of the game atm. Anyone who is considering a GT3 but can't get one is going to be considering a McLaren, I am, and also the Huracan. Anyone who is considering a 911T should be thinking about the new AM Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, or a BMW M car because the 911 just doesn't have what it once did, though I grant you they have become brilliant badge engineers. One reason they are the most profitable car company in the world. The other is that they can sell con tricks like the 911T.
cardigankid said:
The best thing anyone said to me about a Porsche I was driving was 'it howls like a wolf'...
You're absolutely correct in that it makes a terrific noise! At 5k, 6k, 7k it gets better and better. But, I DD my car, 2 hours daily commute - amount of time spent in the sweet range = a few mins, if that. I had hoped for a GT3 allocation to replace my 991.1 GTS but it's not to be for the same reason as everyone else.
Rather reluctantly, I agreed to take a 991.2 GTS demo car with its 'farting' motor for couple of days, and have been comparing over yesterday and today. Back to back: 3.8na v 3.0t.
Against my expectations, and forgive me if this is heresy, I was blown away by the 3.0t. The torque is incredible and available much, much earlier than in the 3.8na. Bags of torque nearly all of the time. The low to mid range surge was 'wow' and just not there in the 3.8na. It more than made up for the loss of howl. And the 3.0t didn't sound that bad either. Not as good as na, but not terrible.
I've lined up a test of the base 3.0t, as in the 'T' spec, just to make sure before I put my T order in. The lowly T motor produces more torque than the 991.1 GTS 3.8na does, and it does it at just 1,700 rpm versus 5,600 rpm. Different sort of driving, different favour of fun. The T should be great for me.
Cheib said:
cardigankid said:
Anyone who is considering a GT3 but can't get one is going to be considering a McLaren, I am, and also the Huracan. Anyone who is considering a 911T should be thinking about the new AM Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, or a BMW M car because the 911 just doesn't have what it once did,
BMW M cars don't have what they once did either....they used to be head and shoulders above the competition but not any more. The engine on the current M3/4 just sounds utterly st at idle....I really couldn't believe how bad it was when I first heard it. I then drove one on a country road and fk me it was shocking. That was a couple of years ago and I understand they've improved the chassis but that wouldn't be difficult. I agree the 991.2 is not as involving as the 991.1 but they are still a cracking machine. What can you compare it to at the same money. Audi A8, Maclaren, Ferrari, Hurricane they are all a lot more money. Don't know about Aston's and whilst they look nice, I have never compared them in the same ball park as a 911, not even close.
I challenge you to find me a new £90k premium sports car that's as good as a 991.2, (GTR perhaps!)
Jacko.1 said:
I was a real M3 fan and had both 6 and 8 cylinder engines and loved them both. Took the latest M4 out for a spin and really didn't like it at all. Hated the sound, drove with a sudden rush of torque and then fizzled out at the top end - totally uninspiring and so boring to me.
I agree the 991.2 is not as involving as the 991.1 !)
991.1 is not really that involving plus it has the worse eps gen 1 system, with the worse tyres known to man the N0 p zero ! I agree the 991.2 is not as involving as the 991.1 !)
I have driven most, happy to hand them back after 1/2 a day dull as f
k IMO.I also ran a CSL and the V8 comp pack, both great engines, both 1/2 the price of a new basic porker lol and neither understeer and had real steering feel.
The hype on the RS and GT3 models is selling the other stuff :-(
The T feels like is it picking up GT3 failed orders, it’s very clever marketing.
The same people who would never buy a basic 911 have all of a sudden ordered a T for more money !
Quote - The hype on the RS and GT3 models is selling the other stuff :-(
The T feels like is it picking up GT3 failed orders, it’s very clever marketing.
The same people who would never buy a basic 911 have all of a sudden ordered a T for more money !
End quote.
The GTS is picking up the failed GT3 orders. AMG's have great engines, I traded in a Macan for a twin turbo C63 and loved it - until the ground was even slightly damp or a corner was approaching, I literally sht myself and sold it when I exited a roundabout backwards!!!!
I agree on the marketing by Porsche, it's brilliant and most of us (including myself) buy into it. Whilst turbo's, hybrid and downsizing is creeping into all sports cars, it's the regulations rather than the manufacturers that are forcing it- true petrol heads hate it, tree huggers are all for it so personally I am grateful that despite the regulations, companies like Porsche still produce fantastic sports cars with devastating point to point abilities.
It's an aspiration to buy a 911 for many people and regardless of whether it's an S, T or GT3, they are all perfect to the people that are lucky enough to own one
[/quote]
The T feels like is it picking up GT3 failed orders, it’s very clever marketing.
The same people who would never buy a basic 911 have all of a sudden ordered a T for more money !
End quote.
The GTS is picking up the failed GT3 orders. AMG's have great engines, I traded in a Macan for a twin turbo C63 and loved it - until the ground was even slightly damp or a corner was approaching, I literally sh
t myself and sold it when I exited a roundabout backwards!!!!I agree on the marketing by Porsche, it's brilliant and most of us (including myself) buy into it. Whilst turbo's, hybrid and downsizing is creeping into all sports cars, it's the regulations rather than the manufacturers that are forcing it- true petrol heads hate it, tree huggers are all for it so personally I am grateful that despite the regulations, companies like Porsche still produce fantastic sports cars with devastating point to point abilities.
It's an aspiration to buy a 911 for many people and regardless of whether it's an S, T or GT3, they are all perfect to the people that are lucky enough to own one
[/quote]
Edited by Jacko.1 on Sunday 29th October 08:54
I tend to agree the T is picking up potential GT3 buyers. I've been chasing after a Touring, I'll be pleasantly surprised if I get one.
I drove a GTS, I wasn't that keen,it being so close to GT3 money. Without upsetting anyone, I felt it was a middle aged fat cat cruiser.
Oddly though the T attracts me! Is it clever marketing? Or is more or less? I dunno!!
It's certainly a much more attractive concept,if nothing else.
I drove a GTS, I wasn't that keen,it being so close to GT3 money. Without upsetting anyone, I felt it was a middle aged fat cat cruiser.
Oddly though the T attracts me! Is it clever marketing? Or is more or less? I dunno!!
It's certainly a much more attractive concept,if nothing else.
Jacko.1 said:
The GTS is picking up the failed GT3 orders. AMG's have great engines, I traded in a Macan for a twin turbo C63 and loved it - until the ground was even slightly damp or a corner was approaching, I literally sht myself and sold it when I exited a roundabout backwards!!!!
I agree on the marketing by Porsche, it's brilliant and most of us (including myself) buy into it. Whilst turbo's, hybrid and downsizing is creeping into all sports cars, it's the regulations rather than the manufacturers that are forcing it- true petrol heads hate it, tree huggers are all for it so personally I am grateful that despite the regulations, companies like Porsche still produce fantastic sports cars with devastating point to point abilities.
It's an aspiration to buy a 911 for many people and regardless of whether it's an S, T or GT3, they are all perfect to the people that are lucky enough to own one
]t myself and sold it when I exited a roundabout backwards!!!!I agree on the marketing by Porsche, it's brilliant and most of us (including myself) buy into it. Whilst turbo's, hybrid and downsizing is creeping into all sports cars, it's the regulations rather than the manufacturers that are forcing it- true petrol heads hate it, tree huggers are all for it so personally I am grateful that despite the regulations, companies like Porsche still produce fantastic sports cars with devastating point to point abilities.
It's an aspiration to buy a 911 for many people and regardless of whether it's an S, T or GT3, they are all perfect to the people that are lucky enough to own one
The T is being launched just as most people fail to secure a GT3 and it’s selling like hot cakes.
This is how marketing works.
Timing is key, all the T owners would never buy a basic 911 and that’s all it is ? It still even got the 7 speed box, not even the new 6 speed unit.
Stuff like my R and GT4 are the best cars in the range at the time, my Spyder took 80kg weight out ! in the past CS packs were to bring the cost of the cars down and offer less kit, so Porsche badged them as more sporty stripped out models but they did cost LESS. The T is a gimmick picking up Failed GT3 orders and charging more for a base car with very little exciting done to it, 20kg is s
t and 99% sales will opt the pcm back in. The cars still a fat lump and 100kg more than a GT4.Short ratio gimmick in a car with peak toque at 1700 revs and 7 speed b
ks.Again a market trick off the back of the GT3 shorter ratio.
Lower sus is just the GTS unit.
So all you gain is 2 kg with some lighter glass ! And pay £8k for a pse :-)
Stuck with the 20” wheels also.
GTS is a far nicer car imo and with the GTS you get all the sus options if you want the sports set up plus larger brakes and more power.
The S is just about the same price !
Any one buying a rear seat delete one over a GT4 needs their heads looking at !
If you want the back seats buy the old 3.8 GTS or the new GTS if you like Turbo's.
Or the S at the same price !
The T is how GT3 halo products sell normal cars.
No one liked tubro's a few months back lol no one ever bought base 911 models either, it’s always go for the S if you can.
Now people are queing up to pay more for a base model 911 turbo engine 7 speed with a gaping hole in the dash most people will fill.
Makes me sad.
Give it 6 speeds take 100kg out, put GT4 brakes on it and the GT3 adjustable sus, maybe I’ll take a look. Still a parts bin car but one worth a look.
I am not saying it a bad car you must understand, it will drive great I would say , it’s just a marketing one.
Edited by Porsche911R on Sunday 29th October 09:49
Phooey said:
Sounds a bit sour grapes. Porsche are pretty much top of the game atm.
It totally is sour grapes. I'm not saying that it's a bad car, but if we are now going turbo here are others which are just as good or better. However, as a matter of principle I am not going to buy a car from a company which won't sell me the one I actually want. You might as well drive around with a sticker reading 'Couldn't get a GT3'. I also find the exhaust noise both annoying and embarrassing.cardigankid said:
It totally is sour grapes. I'm not saying that it's a bad car, but if we are now going turbo here are others which are just as good or better. However, as a matter of principle I am not going to buy a car from a company which won't sell me the one I actually want. You might as well drive around with a sticker reading 'Couldn't get a GT3'. I also find the exhaust noise both annoying and embarrassing.
I'll give you the exhaust note being st. Although, I actually thought it didn't sound too bad on the PDK 991.2 GTS I drove - but I might of not turned it on - can't remember. It sounded ok and much much better than a turbo Boxster I also recently borrowed - that was embarrassing. Either way none are as good as the NA 3.8 - but that's a thing of the past and we have to move on.I was one of those that found it hard to accept the 3.0 turbo unit when it was first released, but as we are seeing from the GTS (and more than likely the T) they are getting better.
As for the competition - If you take the £85k 991T, and compare apples to apples (new car - 4 seater - premium brand) I am unable to think of a genuine rival. Lots of quick cars for £70-90k that would keep with or beat a 991 off the traffic lights.. but as 99% of road tests conclude - the 911 is the better car. The M3/4 CS sounds interesting... but £86k?? Also not forgetting Porsche still gives us the manual gearbox.
I think you really need to increase the budget to find a genuine rival to the modern 911. Even the £147k top of the range Turbo S is untouchable for what it is at the price it is.
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