PPF, Ceramic Coating - which did you go for?

PPF, Ceramic Coating - which did you go for?

Author
Discussion

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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_Leg_ said:
You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

So am I. What matters is our evidence base and not opinion or rumour.

I've run 5 cars with full PPF over periods ranging from 5+ years and 1 year, over a total of 60,000 miles across the cars, in winter, on track, across the NC500, Alps, Dolomites and Pyrenees and on the Autobahn at speeds up to 192mph. I drive my cars as nature intended. I do however, look after them to a high standard.

My evidence says just about everything you've said is wrong. Argue with that if you wish but the evidence to disprove your comments is sat in my garage not in one car, not in cars used for one thing, not in cars cared for differently or covered in different film but in 5 cars as described.

Also, I have some evidence of not applying PPF as I own a 10 year old E92 M3 that I've had from new. It's done 56000 miles. Never been on track nor into Europe. I didn't know about PPF when I got it. It's peppered with stone chips (although I can't see swirls on it as it's Alpine White).

The OP can decide which point of view they wish to believe. When I get a minute I'll do a video up close of the cars and post it here for all to see.

Ps. £30000 (6 x 5000 - although some weren't 5000 but let's round it up) sounds a lot but proportionally to the cars values it's like spending £275 on a £10000 car. I.e. Nothing.
it's not about my own opinion or rumors here ! , it's really about what the products do and nothing I have said is false.

I also own 5 cars and do hoons, track days, welsh trips, 180mph runs etc etc, I also look after my cars to the highest standards.

but yes they all have a bit of road rash, It does not really effect trade in value or how the cars are looked after and if you touch them up they look better than a hole in PPF !

I decided to have it on the GT4, front PU and sills, I will have the front PU done on my GT3, I am not saying don't do it, I am saying the OP need to under stand what the products do and offer, his car is not a rare £345k Ferrari so as you say in % it's a small amount, on a Golf £5k is a big % of the cars value. to full cover a car in PPF seems daft to me , you want to protect the car from 70mph bullet stones, how you get one of those on the roof or boot would be some going !

There is nothing to "disprove" pff stops stone hits, every one knows that, it's a personal choice if that's worth £5k for that or not or if you want to cover area's which are at only 10% risk of hits it's all personal choice, no right and wrong.

what I will say is a concours waxed car looks better than a car cover in film !

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Porsche911R said:
what I will say is a concours waxed car looks better than a car cover in film !
A car covered in dead flies and track day tyre rubber looks better yet!

MartinRS2K

598 posts

118 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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_Leg_ said:
MartinRS2K said:
Fantastic post and your car collection sounds amazing lick

I’d love to see your collection of cars if possible as I live on the Scottish Borders but I am travelling to Knaresborough to drop off my Sharkwerks at Reep Group so it can be fitted to my Touring when it gets the PPF done.
Just PM me at the time mate.
Thank you for the offer smile

blackmamba

821 posts

235 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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I don’t own 5 cars sadly. I have an older car that I look after fastidiously and it is polished and waxed at least once a year. Looks good and gets driven hard. The stone chips add to the patina in my view and I love that I remember when most of them happened. I touch them up and keep the car looking as good as I can. It really feels like my car.

I have a newer car that is used for trackdays that has PPF. I went for a track pack rather than full coverage, mainly due to cost. I find the protection has been good with very few marks or chips visible on the PPF. The edges have become visible due to dirt after 2 years but no other issues. I have to say I don’t like the look of PPF, especially if partial coverage. If I were doing it again, I would be tempted to go for full although I think it is expensive.

I was facing the same question as the OP, what to do with the new car? Someone on here kindly referred me to a detailer who was very helpful and talked me through the pros and cons of each. I was heading towards full PPF but the total bill with a few extras was looking like £4500. I get the whole “as a percentage of the car cost argument” but for me it is still a lot of money that I can use better elsewhere. I decided against it in the end as the worst case scenario was I spent the money and found I didn’t like the end result. Ceramics make sense to me for a daily / regular driver but as they don’t provide stone chip protection I would prefer to use a good wax as I like the process of applying and topping it up. I may get the front PU done with PPF but will just get the rest of the car detailed and waxed. If I pick up some stone chips, I will remember them fondly and live with them. It may or may not affect resale but that is not my priority and I doubt the difference would be more than the £4K difference in cost.

Interesting subject and lots of personal experiences - I guess ultimately it is up to the OP what he wants to do and everyone had to work within their constraints and approach to driving cars.

SHIFTY

888 posts

235 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Most trade ins at OPC will inevitably have the front bumper and bonnet re painted.

When I sold my Boxster GTS the bonnet was covered in chips but this did not deter the OPC, standard stuff was the reply.

I will have delivery of a 911 GTS in April but will not be having PPF applied, again my choice..

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
blackmamba said:
I don’t own 5 cars sadly. I have an older car that I look after fastidiously and it is polished and waxed at least once a year. Looks good and gets driven hard. The stone chips add to the patina in my view and I love that I remember when most of them happened. I touch them up and keep the car looking as good as I can. It really feels like my car.

I have a newer car that is used for trackdays that has PPF. I went for a track pack rather than full coverage, mainly due to cost. I find the protection has been good with very few marks or chips visible on the PPF. The edges have become visible due to dirt after 2 years but no other issues. I have to say I don’t like the look of PPF, especially if partial coverage. If I were doing it again, I would be tempted to go for full although I think it is expensive.

I was facing the same question as the OP, what to do with the new car? Someone on here kindly referred me to a detailer who was very helpful and talked me through the pros and cons of each. I was heading towards full PPF but the total bill with a few extras was looking like £4500. I get the whole “as a percentage of the car cost argument” but for me it is still a lot of money that I can use better elsewhere. I decided against it in the end as the worst case scenario was I spent the money and found I didn’t like the end result. Ceramics make sense to me for a daily / regular driver but as they don’t provide stone chip protection I would prefer to use a good wax as I like the process of applying and topping it up. I may get the front PU done with PPF but will just get the rest of the car detailed and waxed. If I pick up some stone chips, I will remember them fondly and live with them. It may or may not affect resale but that is not my priority and I doubt the difference would be more than the £4K difference in cost.

Interesting subject and lots of personal experiences - I guess ultimately it is up to the OP what he wants to do and everyone had to work within their constraints and approach to driving cars.
it also comes down to how you own the cars, Leg owns his cars and keeps them, 85% of cars are PCP hand backs, so a lot of people are PPFing cars they don't even own !!!

if the GTS is to be a PCP hand back then again no need to ppf it, that's £5k down the toilet

_Leg_

2,798 posts

210 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Porsche911R said:
it's not about my own opinion or rumors here ! , it's really about what the products do and nothing I have said is false.

I also own 5 cars and do hoons, track days, welsh trips, 180mph runs etc etc, I also look after my cars to the highest standards.

but yes they all have a bit of road rash, It does not really effect trade in value or how the cars are looked after and if you touch them up they look better than a hole in PPF !

I decided to have it on the GT4, front PU and sills, I will have the front PU done on my GT3, I am not saying don't do it, I am saying the OP need to under stand what the products do and offer, his car is not a rare £345k Ferrari so as you say in % it's a small amount, on a Golf £5k is a big % of the cars value. to full cover a car in PPF seems daft to me , you want to protect the car from 70mph bullet stones, how you get one of those on the roof or boot would be some going !

There is nothing to "disprove" pff stops stone hits, every one knows that, it's a personal choice if that's worth £5k for that or not or if you want to cover area's which are at only 10% risk of hits it's all personal choice, no right and wrong.

what I will say is a concours waxed car looks better than a car cover in film !
I didn't say you posted anything false nor untrue. I said your opinions were based on old information and limited experience and that in my experience your opinions were misleading and incorrect. Then I went on to explain the breadth of my experience with PPF to demonstrate where mine comes from and explain that actually only 5 of my cars have PPF, 10 don't and therefore I see both sides.

Specifically you said (below).

My replies are of course as always on PH, 'my opinion'. Airing all opinions when someone states theirs as strongly as you do, might help the OP make the right decision for their needs.

Porsche911R said:
PPF is a thick film it protects the car from stone chips but looks iffy and you can see the edges you only want it where you think you are going to get big hits.
I disagree strongly. It's now quite thin, doesn't look iffy and you can't see the edges unless your face is 6 inches from the car and even then barely and most PPF applicators now wrap round the edge of the panel

Porsche911R said:
full PPF again pointless money down the toilet it's about £5k and is rare to get big hits all over the car and you have 10 times the edges to see !
Again, you don't see the edges. It didn't even cost £5k on my F12 (£4600) and only cost £3200 on my Exige 350 Sport with the other cars falling between these two numbers. You may not get hits but you do get swirls and other damage. My cars are detailed by a professional when new then the film applied therefore the perfect finish is sealed in. No swirls, no scratches. Sonoco film (better than XPEL in this respect) is excellent for shine and finish to the extent that two of my cars have Sonoco on the less impact likely panels and XPEL2 on the high impact areas so I get the best of both worlds.

Porsche911R said:
a stone hit on PPF looks a mess you get a hit it breaks the film, dirt and st gets in and on a light coloured car you end up with a black dirt hole !
You insinuate, strongly here, that 'a stone hit....breaks the film'. That's simply not true. It could happen on a rare occasion. I've had one instance when the film was replaced under warranty on one panel in 60,000 miles across the cars. I've had the front of the Exige peppered on track days and the PPF is still intact and perfect. The statement should be that 'PPF will endure a stone hit on 99% of occasions although it is possible for a stone to penetrate it'.

But I keep my cars for a long time, some are life cars, so to me it's worth it to keep them as pristine as possible yet still allow me to feel comfortable using them as much as I want. I hate washing a car and finding a stone chip, I like being able to rub tar off without worrying. I hate swirls. PPF is a bargain.

By the way, he's getting a 911 GTS, not a Golf or similar. They're what? £100,000? 3-4% of the car's value to protect the paintwork and give the OP the peace of mind to not worry about gritters, country roads or maybe even the occasional track day is peanuts to my mind. How much do we all spend on options when speccing our cars on things that exist simply to make the car look nice or to make it more enjoyable for us personally? More than £3000-4000 for sure. How is PPF any different. I'm actually astonished dealers don't employ their own PPF guy and that the manufacturers don't offer PPF as an option when speccing cars.

This could of course, go on forever. The OP now has two opposing views of PPF and hopefully this will help the OP make a decision for what is best for him/her.

By the way, I think we agree that ceramic coatings are pointless. Even in a sea of disagreement there's a puddle of agreement.









Edited by _Leg_ on Wednesday 14th February 16:53

Mastiff

2,515 posts

240 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Quite right that almost every Porsche traded in will need front end painting if the dealer is retailing it again - it's part of their Dealer Standards.

FWIW Ferdinand Porsche was once rumoured to have said "They are not stone chips, they are battle scars".

I have no idea where I got that from so don't ask!

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
most films are cut templates so you do see most edges, bar that I agree with you and it's all personal.

But the edge thing for me is an issue, not many panels can be fully wrapped and a lot of companies will not even wrap a hood as they have a cut template.

I had 4 or 5 dirt holes on the GT4, yes the paint was perfect under it but the 1st layer get damaged and dirt fills the hole left in between the film! nothing you can do about it, on a yellow car it looks far worst than a touch up pen.
If you don't have any big holes like that then one might say you have not had any big hits and the PPF was pointless lol (joke btw)

it's a risk reward thing, I don't get swirls as I wash my own cars correctly ,I also buy 3 or 4 cars a year so changing cars so often and paying for PPF not a thing I do.

I don't own a car with PPF atm as an example. the new owner of my GT4 has got a chip fee car if he gets it all pealed off, I had no advantage with it as It ended up with black dirt filled holes over it. and after 2 years it also had black edges which had started to lift ! so for me it made the car look worst in my owner ship and protected it for the new owner !

I also said 85% of cars sold are PCP rented cars so why PPF a car you rent ?

_Leg_

2,798 posts

210 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
most films are cut templates so you do see most edges, bar that I agree with you and it's all personal.

But the edge thing for me is an issue, not many panels can be fully wrapped and a lot of companies will not even wrap a hood as they have a cut template.

I had 4 or 5 dirt holes on the GT4, yes the paint was perfect under it but the 1st layer get damaged and dirt fills the hole left in between the film! nothing you can do about it, on a yellow car it looks far worst than a touch up pen.
If you don't have any big holes like that then one might say you have not had any big hits and the PPF was pointless lol (joke btw)

it's a risk reward thing, I don't get swirls as I wash my own cars correctly ,I also buy 3 or 4 cars a year so changing cars so often and paying for PPF not a thing I do.

I don't own a car with PPF atm as an example. the new owner of my GT4 has got a chip fee car if he gets it all pealed off, I had no advantage with it as It ended up with black dirt filled holes over it. and after 2 years it also had black edges which had started to lift ! so for me it made the car look worst in my owner ship and protected it for the new owner !

I also said 85% of cars sold are PCP rented cars so why PPF a car you rent ?
It is possible to cut templates so the film allows for going round edges but some fitters will not. Paintshield I find will do more than most fitters but they've been at it longest so I would expect them to do new things.

I get that you've had problems and I know you say it in every post so at risk of also repeating myself, again, I do not have holes in ppf on my cars that are full of dirt. You've had one experience with the film and fitter you use, I've had a different experience with the ones I use. It is what it is.

I wash my own cars. I also do it properly (to the constant amusement of my friends who laugh at my 4 buckets etc). I've had training with machine polishers too. In my experience in the concourse show scene (I show some of my classics and have a few trophies although I've missed a couple of years now) it's impossible to avoid some swirls on paintwork due to washing so hats off to you if you have none.

I can't comment on the pros and cons of PPF for those that use PCP. I don't do any credit although I've stated below what I would do if I did.

There are two distinct types of owners here though. I buy a car because I want that car. I'm not overly interested in the replacement car that's supposedly 'better'. If I was it would be hard to own classics as obviously their modern day counterparts are technically 'better' (but they aren't better cars IMO). That means I buy a car with a long term 'relationship' in mind and so if I own a car for 10 years the cost of PPF is minor compared to the benefit to the ownership experience.

If I was buying a car, even a £300k Ferrari, with the intention of swapping it a year later or buying it on PCP with the intention of handing it back, I wouldn't consider PPF for a millisecond. As I've said throughout, in my experience people doing PPF are owners who own and use cars long term.

I dont PPF my classics simply because they don't do the mileage to warrant it (nor are they driven hard or on track) so obviously I understand that in some circumstances, PPF isn't the best thing. Lets not forget that the OP was asking which is the best way to protect his car. If he does few miles or intends to swap it quickly or hand it back, that isn't PPF. If he intends to keep the car indefinately, use it a lot and go into Europe or even do track days, PPF is probably right for him. We can't decide, merely give our views as he requested.

I think it's time to let the thread get on with itself. We have different experiences, different approaches and therefore different views. I think I said a post or two ago that from the OPs and anyone reading's point of view that's a good thing. They've heard two opposing views which means they can decide for themselves.


tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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I’ve had suntek, xpel, ventureshield and ceramic coating.

The dirt trapped problem for me was down to how good installer wrapped the vehicle and how good the PPF film is.

Ventureshield and xpel seemed to have not suffered from 5+ years 65k+ of abuse. Suntek gained a couple of scars within the first 12 months 15k miles resulting in dirt attraction. Where PPF parts are completely pre-cut there is a good chance of dirt collection especially around the parking warts. Where installer properly wrapped round most the edges - no such probs.

Also worth noting that even the good installers will get 1 or 2 dust specs under the film and bad ones will noticeably stretch the film. Personally for my last install, which was done well, I can’t really tell the difference between covered and uncovered panels, especially when polished, while standing next to the car in bright sunlight. If I look closely I can see the exposed corner edges and dust specs - but I can live with that.

The ceramic coating keeps the vehicle cleaner and easier to clean but provides little or no protection. After 3k miles of admittedly mainly trackdays, I had a nice stone rash around the front bumper and rear cooling intakes. £1600 warranted respray yikes

On the whole, given my passion for keeping my cars for at least 6 years and multiple trackdays, PPF film works for me, stops unsightly chipping and where I covered the doors, it minimised parking dings (one in 60k miles that can PDRed since the PPF stopped the paint from being marked).

3wheels3

206 posts

218 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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I am a fan of ppf (bonnet, wings, bumper, mirrors).

It's as much about the hundreds of v small dinks as the bigger rocks. Plus once done I can relax about it and enjoy my days without worrying about stone chips. After the heart breaking experience of without and feeling like wash and polish was like putting lipstick on a pig!

_Leg_

2,798 posts

210 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Time for pics of cars with PPF?

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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_Leg_

2,798 posts

210 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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Nice. Which grey is that? One of mine is Agate.

Sorted the rotation for you. :-)


tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
_Leg_ said:
Nice. Which grey is that? One of mine is Agate.

Sorted the rotation for you. :-)
Cheers! Phone wouldn’t let me do that!

Yep. resale grey. After having multiple black cars it’s a relief to be able to keep the car clean for more than 10 milliseconds biggrin

Frrair

1,365 posts

133 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
Hi OP

I too have a brand new GTS coming, I have arranged for a ceramic coating to be put on prior to collection. In fact the guy is independent and doing at the OPC for me.

Why? well I had a similar coating on my Ferrari which I had for not quite six years and despite it being near 16 years old it looked great, in fact you wouldn’t believe it’s age. It didn’t do lots of mileage it was mostly sunny days only but it was easy to clean and was never more than microfibre cloth dried.

Had my wife’s Q3 done last year, it looks great and no little scrapes from running tight to hedges or stone chips visible. We only clean our cars by hand and she tells me is very easy to clean too :-).

Negotiated a price and I thought it very reasonable for Gtechniq 4 year stuff.

PM me if you want to know who and how much.

Cheers
Ed


Kermitgreenmeanmachine

112 posts

105 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
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My GTS has arrived. Waiting until 1st march to pick up. The OPC offered Gtechniq as a sweetener for nothing. I’m wondering if I trust them to apply it properly! Heard you have to sand it off if it needs removing. Lifes too short for PPF.

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Wednesday 14th February 2018
quotequote all
Kermitgreenmeanmachine said:
My GTS has arrived. Waiting until 1st march to pick up. The OPC offered Gtechniq as a sweetener for nothing. I’m wondering if I trust them to apply it properly! Heard you have to sand it off if it needs removing. Lifes too short for PPF.
Once applied it has to be machined down anyway - it’s easy to screw up apparently - but then all detailers would probably say that.

Steve Rance

5,435 posts

230 months

Thursday 15th February 2018
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I like to look after my cars but hate ballsing about washing them because I’d rather be driving them. Ceramic coating works for me because once it’s applied, maintenance is so quick. Personally I wouldn’t consider a wrap. For me the money would be much better spent on decent chassis upgrades but each to his own.