Help choosing which GT3

[Taffy66]

Porsche911R said:

buy one then !

I find it odd a lot of people say "that's what I would have" but never own them lol

IME there are two types of people....people who make things happen and people who talk about things which happen...No prizes for guessing which category cmoose falls into..

[Taffy66]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No need to be so hyper-sensitive..As i actually was only joking...

[franki68]

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

Slippydiff said:

A good, if somewhat pathetic, attempt.



Chris is brilliant at what he does, but deciding what individuals should or shouldn’t buy/drive, is not his brief. Neither is it yours ...

or yours !!!
best to take advice from Pro's imo if unsure of forum bullst.

You are getting to your old self which is a massive shame after a nice spell we had :-)

Some things never change David, specifically the content of your posts and your obnoxious manner.
I’ve merely made a point of ignoring the constant BS you’ve posted of late, but when you make a deliberate and consistent attempt to dissuade others from buying their chosen car by posting your usual ill-informed, nonsensical propaganda, I feel it only right that your misguided opinions need to be countered.

So by all means carry on posting in your own unique and abnoxious manner and continue to get all bitter and twisted to the point you flounce off with another bout of forum derived “depression“, and I and others will continue to call you out

As I said earlier in the thread, play nice, and others will play nice (though I suspect many will continue to take the p*ss our of you as you’re such an easy target) or carry on being obnoxious and others will be equally so when they respond to your posts. As ever, it’s your choice.

[kevs 172]

franki68 said:

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

You don’t need to change any parts, you just change the set up, ride height and arb’s.
It’s all adjustable.
Mine was set up for track use and now for the road.Chris at COG adjusted it without fitting a single new part.

[alfapork]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

^^ this. Every keeper car I've had I've tweaked (by choice) to make it perfect. It's a compliment not a criticism, you only do that if you have a good base to start with!

[Digga]

kevs 172 said:

franki68 said:

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

You don’t need to change any parts, you just change the set up, ride height and arb’s.
It’s all adjustable.
Mine was set up for track use and now for the road.Chris at COG adjusted it without fitting a single new part.

If even subtle changes in set up and geometry did not make significant differences to driver involvement, handling and grip, the likes of Center Gravity, JZM, Fearnsport, Sports & Classic etc. would never get any positive feedback from customers for so doing. They would not waste time doing it and customers would never pay for it.

In other news, I concocted a surious reason for a drive in my 997.1 GT3 this morning (dropping off and collecting Mrs D from her body pump class). No speed limits were broken, hell, a lot of the time I was never even above 4,000 rpm. I had an absolute hoot.

Aside form the driving, I enjoyed one of those little moments you forget cars like these enable. I pulled into a Shell garage to top up and an attendant (when was the last time you saw one?!) came over, filled the car up with super and proceeded to ask all sorts of questions and also tell me about having been invited by the firm to the Goodwood FoS one year. The bloke behind the till wanted to talk about the car too, and the old boy filling his Hyundai on the pump next door too. People who know cars love GT3s. It restores your faith in the world somewhat.

If someone had switched vehicles and given me a 996 GT3 (or, for that matter a 997.2, 991.1 or even 991.2 GT3) I'm sure not a single part of that would have altered.

[Slippydiff]

Digga said:

f even subtle changes in set up and geometry did not make significant differences to driver involvement, handling and grip, the likes of Center Gravity, JZM, Fearnsport, Sports & Classic etc. would never get any positive feedback from customers for so doing. They would not waste time doing it and customers would never pay for it.

In other news, I concocted a surious reason for a drive in my 997.1 GT3 this morning (dropping off and collecting Mrs D from her body pump class). No speed limits were broken, hell, a lot of the time I was never even above 4,000 rpm. I had an absolute hoot.

Aside form the driving, I enjoyed one of those little moments you forget cars like these enable. I pulled into a Shell garage to top up and an attendant (when was the last time you saw one?!) came over, filled the car up with super and proceeded to ask all sorts of questions and also tell me about having been invited by the firm to the Goodwood FoS one year. The bloke behind the till wanted to talk about the car too, and the old boy filling his Hyundai on the pump next door too. People who know cars love GT3s. It restores your faith in the world somewhat.

If someone had switched vehicles and given me a 996 GT3 (or, for that matter a 997.2, 991.1 or even 991.2 GT3) I'm sure not a single part of that would have altered.

Evening Digs.
If a certain individual is to be believed, that’s a “stupid” comment and makes this forum “a funny place” now ...

[Harris_I]

franki68 said:

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

You may have driven a track spec car, in that case. Fresh out of the box (as long as the geo is good), it's one of the greatest road cars ever made. Supple and biddable. Amazing user interface (chatty steering, proper gear shift, brakes, throttle). An engine that works well throughout the rev range (and orgasmic at the high end). Narrow hipped. I found going down the full track spec route meant B road blasts became a lot less enjoyable.

The basic ingredients are fabulous. You can mix and match components to create whatever suits. Not something one can do easily with the modern stuff. For me it represents the peak crossover between road and race cars.

[BertBert]

MIne was straight out of the box, exactly as the factory made it. Perfect!
Bert

[LaSource]

Lots of views posted here.

Having driven the entire Mezger range of GT3s on the road or track, they are all brilliant with slightly different characteristics.
More raw 996 >>>>>997.2 More refined
More track focused 996>>>>>997.2 More road/track blend
More skinny/agile 996>>>>>997.2 Wider and more planted
Less pretty 996>>>>>>997.2 More pretty (subjective!)
Potent 996>>>>>>997.2 More fire
Cheaper 996>>>>997.2 More expensive

The above just a very very simplistic comparison. Then you can spend a bit of money and setup any individual car to be somewhere different on those dimensions.

Ultimately I guess it is about that final dimension - cost. ie buy the best you can/want to afford and leave a bit of change if you wish to focus the car a bit to your desired use (road car, track car, etc). There is no wrong answer. Wherever you jump in will start your personal journey on GT3 ownership and driver experience.

I like and have both 996 and 997. My current opinion is if push came to shove then the 996 will be the last to go...I may change my mind along my journey, I may not.

[Digga]

Slippydiff said:

Evening Digs.
If a certain individual is to be believed, that’s a “stupid” comment and makes this forum “a funny place” now ...

Going even further into absurdity, it didn't really have to be a GT car; I could probably have had almost as much fun in just about any 911... I guess it's a mindset thing; half full or half empty sort of scenario.

[franki68]

Harris_I said:

franki68 said:

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

You may have driven a track spec car, in that case. Fresh out of the box (as long as the geo is good), it's one of the greatest road cars ever made. Supple and biddable. Amazing user interface (chatty steering, proper gear shift, brakes, throttle). An engine that works well throughout the rev range (and orgasmic at the high end). Narrow hipped. I found going down the full track spec route meant B road blasts became a lot less enjoyable.

The basic ingredients are fabulous. You can mix and match components to create whatever suits. Not something one can do easily with the modern stuff. For me it represents the peak crossover between road and race cars.

It was 15ish yeas ago so no idea of the exact spec ,and supple is exactly what it wasn’t .

[fvert]

My 2 cents... among all the cars I have owned, my favorite was my 997.2 S convertible. My dream car was the 997 GT3. I bought a 996.1 GT3 "by accident", waiting for the delivery of my Alpine, and.... I fell in love!!!!! It is raw, it is analog (I have owned a few Lotus so I can compare). No need to drive fast. I enjoy the sound, the handling and the vibrations even at low speed. Of course it is not a daily. And I am not objective as I am in love maybe the first car I consider as a keeper....

[seawise]

fvert said:

My 2 cents... among all the cars I have owned, my favorite was my 997.2 S convertible. My dream car was the 997 GT3. I bought a 996.1 GT3 "by accident", waiting for the delivery of my Alpine, and.... I fell in love!!!!! It is raw, it is analog (I have owned a few Lotus so I can compare). No need to drive fast. I enjoy the sound, the handling and the vibrations even at low speed. Of course it is not a daily. And I am not objective as I am in love maybe the first car I consider as a keeper....

Super - will you still take the Alpine when it arrives ? Curious who will buy these. My brother has ordered one, as a stablemate for his original ex Monte A110 1600S that he’s owned since the early ‘80s. Can’t wait to try a new one, after all if the press are to believed, it will be quite special.

[Slippydiff]

franki68 said:

Harris_I said:

franki68 said:

I didn’t enjoy the 996gt3 on the road,the one I drove was far to harsh ,I could see it’s appeal on the track .

And Why if it’s so good on the road do so many people make changes to it ?

You may have driven a track spec car, in that case. Fresh out of the box (as long as the geo is good), it's one of the greatest road cars ever made. Supple and biddable. Amazing user interface (chatty steering, proper gear shift, brakes, throttle). An engine that works well throughout the rev range (and orgasmic at the high end). Narrow hipped. I found going down the full track spec route meant B road blasts became a lot less enjoyable.

The basic ingredients are fabulous. You can mix and match components to create whatever suits. Not something one can do easily with the modern stuff. For me it represents the peak crossover between road and race cars.

It was 15ish yeas ago so no idea of the exact spec ,and supple is exactly what it wasn’t .

A great shame your experience was less than exemplary
Regrettably you’re not the first, and you certainly won’t be the last to have experienced a less than optimal example and walked away from the experience both “tainted” by it, and thinking “that was unpleasant, what’s all the fuss about ?”

A poorly set up car (all too frequently on Pirelli’s woeful P Zero Rossos) with tired dampers, saggy/tired springs, oft slammed to the deck, with a “fast road” geo, inaccurately adjusted camber and toe (and incorrect rake), is a truly parlous driving experience, and you’d be forgiven for thinking the whole 996 GT3 driving experience totally over-hyped.

However ... get an example on fresh rubber Cup’s (when they were available) Cup 2’s, Trofeos or worst case scenario PS2’s, with freshly overhauled dampers and new springs, set up by someone who knows what they’re doing AND understands the suspension and how to corner weight/adjust ride heights/rake, NOT slammed to the deck and running close to factory toe and camber (possibly a tiny smidge of additional camber on the front to improve turn in if you must) and you’ll experience one of Stuttgart’s finest driving experiences. Period.

Someone out there give this gentleman a drive in a nicely set up car that’s in rude health ...

[Harris_I]

Slippydiff said:

However ... get an example on fresh rubber Cup’s (when they were available) Cup 2’s, Trofeos or worst case scenario PS2’s,

Actually I don't recommend Cups on a road car. They're not far off slicks in terms of outright grip and the sidewalls are stiff. It's nice to have a bit of give and also a hint of slip on the road. The PS2s were actually just right for the road back in the day (although I appreciate tyre tech has moved on a lot since then).

[Slippydiff]

Harris_I said:

Slippydiff said:

However ... get an example on fresh rubber Cup’s (when they were available) Cup 2’s, Trofeos or worst case scenario PS2’s,

Actually I don't recommend Cups on a road car. They're not far off slicks in terms of outright grip and the sidewalls are stiff. It's nice to have a bit of give and also a hint of slip on the road. The PS2s were actually just right for the road back in the day (although I appreciate tyre tech has moved on a lot since then).

Loved my Manthey car on the original Cups !! Removed all the tyre squirm and really keyed it into the tarmac.
Although it was running Ohlins 3 way adjustables ...

[franki68]

Slippydiff said:

A great shame your experience was less than exemplary
Regrettably you’re not the first, and you certainly won’t be the last to have experienced a less than optimal example and walked away from the experience both “tainted” by it, and thinking “that was unpleasant, what’s all the fuss about ?”

A poorly set up car (all too frequently on Pirelli’s woeful P Zero Rossos) with tired dampers, saggy/tired springs, oft slammed to the deck, with a “fast road” geo, inaccurately adjusted camber and toe (and incorrect rake), is a truly parlous driving experience, and you’d be forgiven for thinking the whole 996 GT3 driving experience totally over-hyped.

However ... get an example on fresh rubber Cup’s (when they were available) Cup 2’s, Trofeos or worst case scenario PS2’s, with freshly overhauled dampers and new springs, set up by someone who knows what they’re doing AND understands the suspension and how to corner weight/adjust ride heights/rake, NOT slammed to the deck and running close to factory toe and camber (possibly a tiny smidge of additional camber on the front to improve turn in if you must) and you’ll experience one of Stuttgart’s finest driving experiences. Period.

Someone out there give this gentleman a drive in a nicely set up car that’s in rude health ...

The car was fairly new if I recall correctly.I actually thought I may be getting mixed up as I have driven a lot of cars over the years so had a quick look at some of the original road test reviews ,words like 'hard' and 'jiggles about a lot' were used in describing the ride.
Interestingly Harris wrote a piece about the car and pointed out that the first gen of it rode much nicer than the 2nd gen so maybe the one I drove was a later car.

Anyway if people love it fine,I understand much of the appeal but it was not something I enjoyed driving at the time.

[Harris_I]

franki68 said:

The car was fairly new if I recall correctly.I actually thought I may be getting mixed up as I have driven a lot of cars over the years so had a quick look at some of the original road test reviews ,words like 'hard' and 'jiggles about a lot' were used in describing the ride.
Interestingly Harris wrote a piece about the car and pointed out that the first gen of it rode much nicer than the 2nd gen so maybe the one I drove was a later car.

Anyway if people love it fine,I understand much of the appeal but it was not something I enjoyed driving at the time.

It's never going to be a classic Citroen DS on hydropneumatic suspension, but I always felt most journos were poorly qualified to judge the 6 GT3.

I drove the then-new 997 C2 with PASM back to back for a few hours with my then-standard 996 GT3 (mk 2) on fast but fairly challenging road surfaces (surface imperfections, cambers and crowns), and the 6 on standard passive dampers was significantly better damped than the 7 in either the sport or comfort setting (sport was just plain hard and unsophisticated, comfort was wallowy). The 7 (non-GT3 so you'd expect it to be tuned for comfort not racing) was all over the place at speed, the 6 took it in its stride.