Does anyone here own a 911 CSR from RPM?
Discussion
Prior to the GT3 being signed off Porsche had an alternate Cup car with an M96 X51 Powerkit engine in it - they chose the Mezger engined GT3 in the end, apparently when they chose the Mezger as the basis for the Turbo engine, which gave sufficient volume for said engine.
Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Dammit said:
Prior to the GT3 being signed off Porsche had an alternate Cup car with an M96 X51 Powerkit engine in it - they chose the Mezger engined GT3 in the end, apparently when they chose the Mezger as the basis for the Turbo engine, which gave sufficient volume for said engine.
Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Sounds very interesting Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Broad brush Hp and torque figures ?I'm possibly meeting up with Mike on Saturday, it should make for an interesting conversation
Hah- say hello from me!
You may get to find out what stroke Mike is going with before I do in that case- he’s ruminating at the moment.
In terms of goals I’d hope for over 100bhp/litre, but it’s more about the delivery than the ultimate number. Also I’d hope the noise of itbs at 8,000 rpm to be suitably memorable.
You may get to find out what stroke Mike is going with before I do in that case- he’s ruminating at the moment.
In terms of goals I’d hope for over 100bhp/litre, but it’s more about the delivery than the ultimate number. Also I’d hope the noise of itbs at 8,000 rpm to be suitably memorable.
I am the owner of CSR-002, which is their first 997 CSR. I bought it from RPM in 2014 and I have no plans to ever sell it.
The spec sheet was very long as it was their first build and demonstrator. It included an engine rebuild, lightweight clutch and flywheel, LSD, exhaust, suspension, top mounts, engine mounts, 3rd rad, gold HRE wheels, turbo bumper and of course the carbon ducktail.
I’ve done 30,000 since the CSR conversion. It’s done a few track days, and numerous road trips including Germany, Italy, Monaco, Scottish highlands, Ireland west cost, Wales and lots of shorter weekend trips. It’s a great balance of a fun track day car, but also practical enough to chuck all your gear in the boot and back seats and head off on a 6 hour drive.
I continue to enjoy it as much as the first day I picked it up from the showroom. It’s a proper driving experience, requiring concentration to get the most out of it. The lightweight clutch is quite aggressive, but allows for rapid starts. It loves to rev and the noise of the infectious. The engine mounts help you feel the engine through the seat. Yes it’s quite firm, but the handling is precise with no understeer and predictable back end.
Over my years of ownership I’ve done various tweaks and of course the usual Porsche maintenance, all done at RPM.
I recently drove the purple 996 CSR EVO and found it very impressive. Felt so tight and fresh. It’s currently in their showroom as a demonstrator. Recommend having a look.
Happy to answer any questions please have about my CSR
The spec sheet was very long as it was their first build and demonstrator. It included an engine rebuild, lightweight clutch and flywheel, LSD, exhaust, suspension, top mounts, engine mounts, 3rd rad, gold HRE wheels, turbo bumper and of course the carbon ducktail.
I’ve done 30,000 since the CSR conversion. It’s done a few track days, and numerous road trips including Germany, Italy, Monaco, Scottish highlands, Ireland west cost, Wales and lots of shorter weekend trips. It’s a great balance of a fun track day car, but also practical enough to chuck all your gear in the boot and back seats and head off on a 6 hour drive.
I continue to enjoy it as much as the first day I picked it up from the showroom. It’s a proper driving experience, requiring concentration to get the most out of it. The lightweight clutch is quite aggressive, but allows for rapid starts. It loves to rev and the noise of the infectious. The engine mounts help you feel the engine through the seat. Yes it’s quite firm, but the handling is precise with no understeer and predictable back end.
Over my years of ownership I’ve done various tweaks and of course the usual Porsche maintenance, all done at RPM.
I recently drove the purple 996 CSR EVO and found it very impressive. Felt so tight and fresh. It’s currently in their showroom as a demonstrator. Recommend having a look.
Happy to answer any questions please have about my CSR
Edited by matfinch on Friday 14th September 06:57
Edited by matfinch on Friday 14th September 06:58
matfinch said:
I am the owner of CSR-002, which is their first 997 CSR. I bought it from RPM in 2014 and I have no plans to ever sell it.
The spec sheet was very long as it was their first build and demonstrator. It included an engine rebuild, lightweight clutch and flywheel, LSD, exhaust, suspension, top mounts, engine mounts, 3rd rad, gold HRE wheels, turbo bumper and of course the carbon ducktail.
I’ve done 30,000 since the CSR conversion. It’s done a few track days, and numerous road trips including Germany, Italy, Monaco, Scottish highlands, Ireland west cost, Wales and lots of shorter weekend trips. It’s a great balance of a fun track day car, but also practical enough to chuck all your gear in the boot and back seats and head off on a 6 hour drive.
I continue to enjoy it as much as the first day I picked it up from the showroom. It’s a proper driving experience, requiring concentration to get the most out of it. The lightweight clutch is quite aggressive, but allows for rapid starts. It loves to rev and the noise of the infectious. The engine mounts help you feel the engine through the seat. Yes it’s quite firm, but the handling is precise with no understeer and predictable back end.
Over my years of ownership I’ve done various tweaks and of course the usual Porsche maintenance, all done at RPM.
I recently drove the purple 996 CSR EVO and found it very impressive. Felt so tight and fresh. It’s currently in their showroom as a demonstrator. Recommend having a look.
Happy to answer any questions please have about my CSR
Good morning.
Just wondered if you have ever compared the CSR to a 997.1 GT3
The spec sheet was very long as it was their first build and demonstrator. It included an engine rebuild, lightweight clutch and flywheel, LSD, exhaust, suspension, top mounts, engine mounts, 3rd rad, gold HRE wheels, turbo bumper and of course the carbon ducktail.
I’ve done 30,000 since the CSR conversion. It’s done a few track days, and numerous road trips including Germany, Italy, Monaco, Scottish highlands, Ireland west cost, Wales and lots of shorter weekend trips. It’s a great balance of a fun track day car, but also practical enough to chuck all your gear in the boot and back seats and head off on a 6 hour drive.
I continue to enjoy it as much as the first day I picked it up from the showroom. It’s a proper driving experience, requiring concentration to get the most out of it. The lightweight clutch is quite aggressive, but allows for rapid starts. It loves to rev and the noise of the infectious. The engine mounts help you feel the engine through the seat. Yes it’s quite firm, but the handling is precise with no understeer and predictable back end.
Over my years of ownership I’ve done various tweaks and of course the usual Porsche maintenance, all done at RPM.
I recently drove the purple 996 CSR EVO and found it very impressive. Felt so tight and fresh. It’s currently in their showroom as a demonstrator. Recommend having a look.
Happy to answer any questions please have about my CSR
Good morning.
Just wondered if you have ever compared the CSR to a 997.1 GT3
Edited by matfinch on Friday 14th September 06:57
Edited by matfinch on Friday 14th September 06:58
I'm tempted to see what RPM could do to my manual 997 GTS....I was in there a couple of months ago, they are running a 997 demo (not sure if it's a CSR) with a variety of their tuning options which I want to try out to see what's what. I'd like to leave the car looking absolutely standard but see what can be done with the chassis and engine,
Slippydiff said:
Dammit said:
Prior to the GT3 being signed off Porsche had an alternate Cup car with an M96 X51 Powerkit engine in it - they chose the Mezger engined GT3 in the end, apparently when they chose the Mezger as the basis for the Turbo engine, which gave sufficient volume for said engine.
Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Sounds very interesting Which I think pretty much everyone knows.
What I thought would be interesting would be to imagine a world in which the Mezger didn't get signed off, and the X51 engine went through a number of iterations - what would it have looked like? What could it have looked like?
What we're building is as follows:
- New Cayman S block with liners machined out and Hartech items fitted, deck closed and all Hartech detail updates made
- Some discussion on cranks, and this is TBC, but likely an EN40B crank of 78mm stroke which gives a 3.7 litre displacement
- Race Techniques heads: ported and flowed, solid lifters in billet tappet carriers, high lift cams, possibly (again, TBC) 1mm larger diameter valves
- Jenvey ITB's into a GT3-RS centre section, internal butterflies of which controlled by the Syvecs ECU
- Suitable exhaust manifolds and so forth
- LWFW and (due to maximum revs being higher) revised final drive
Broad brush Hp and torque figures ?I'm possibly meeting up with Mike on Saturday, it should make for an interesting conversation
Autofarm Silsleeve liners
Closed deck
IMS update
3.7 capacity increase with Capricorn pistons
High lift Schrick Cams (not sure on exact spec)
GT3 Throttle body
IPD plenum
Custom carbon airbox
Deep sump
Motorsport A/O separator
LWF
Fully decated exhaust system (amazingly passes MOT and track noise tests) - Topgear headers and Milltek rear section.
So far as I understand it is running the standard crank. The Motronic ECU was mapped by Bob Watson, but I'm convinced there is more on the table with some further work on the dyno.
In that configuration it showed 367-370bhp on two different dynos (I forget the torque figure), thus I think 400bhp should be achievable with headwork ITBs and custom ECU as proposed above.
I have since fitted an external oil cooler, larger 997 heat exchanger and X51 twin oil scavenge pumps on both banks of heads. The real issue with this engine, at least in Cayman application, is keeping the damn thing cool enough - now sorted thanks to extensive help from Ollie at RPM and Parr.
Edited by Jamie Summers on Friday 14th September 12:10
Interesting - thanks for that info.
The scavenge pump from the X51 pack is there to prevent hydraulic fracture of the tappet carrier under high G braking - that's one of the reasons we are replacing said carriers:
They are the most significant weakness in the top of the engine, which Porsche clearly knew - hence the scavenge pump.
To run the cam profiles that we are thinking of, and to in general remove a vulnerability we are using billet items.
What does your engine rev to?
I'd love to see a dyno chart if you had one.
The scavenge pump from the X51 pack is there to prevent hydraulic fracture of the tappet carrier under high G braking - that's one of the reasons we are replacing said carriers:
They are the most significant weakness in the top of the engine, which Porsche clearly knew - hence the scavenge pump.
To run the cam profiles that we are thinking of, and to in general remove a vulnerability we are using billet items.
What does your engine rev to?
I'd love to see a dyno chart if you had one.
The rev limit is set at 7,600 as far as I remember, the valve train is stock, so I don't think they wanted to push the RPM limit aggressively. Yes, I have some dyno plots - I will dig them out over the weekend.
I thought the X51 scavenge pumps were to stop oil pooling in the heads when cornering ?
I thought the X51 scavenge pumps were to stop oil pooling in the heads when cornering ?
Thanks - that would be great.
Scavenge pumps - yes, absolutely it's to stop oil pooling. Said pooling is a problem when it leads to the fracture of the carrier, as the valve train turns and tries to move oil out of the way, and in that effort overwhelms the strength of the carrier itself. If that makes sense?
Scavenge pumps - yes, absolutely it's to stop oil pooling. Said pooling is a problem when it leads to the fracture of the carrier, as the valve train turns and tries to move oil out of the way, and in that effort overwhelms the strength of the carrier itself. If that makes sense?
Cheib said:
A couple of pics in this twitter link of a 997 GTS with RPM ducktail and said front lip spoiler.
are you really to sell me yours yet at a normal price :-)atm a C2S mint is £50k so a CSR on C2S and £25k seems a great car for £75k
GTS tricky pricing now, starting to not look like value over £70k, 911V are normally on the money but £74k for their one is daft imo. price is in the miles and that means you cannot drive it now !
I could pay £15k max over an S but that's about it I think.
But a 997.2 C2S and CSR give one a lot of options with the money saved.
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