gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!
Discussion
Juno said:
Which means the owner will have lost circa 70-80K on that 
I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that 
Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?
Exactly this and why McLaren have to get a grip on their pricing strategy and address their supply/demand balance..If i was McLaren rather than lower the list prices i would instead include some of the 'must have' pricey carbon fiber options as standard..Nobody buys a bog standard car and with the pricey c/f options it can add £30+ on top. I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?Porsche OTOH don't have hugely expensive c/f options on top of basic list to really distort what new GT car buyers really have to pay. Porsche really have their pricing and marketing down to fine art and something which McLaren need to mimic sooner rather than later.IMO
Porsche911R said:
av185 said:
Yes I tend to think that the 458 Speciale 488 and Performante are to an extent being dragged down by the sheer choice and oversupply of barely used Mclarens hitting the market.
McLaren are not like Porsche or Ferrari, they make 5000 PA and guess what they are all the same design, a 2 seater car with a carbon tub with a turbo V8 !!so the same as a 12c really !
Porsche make Macans, 4 seaters, turbos, Suv etc etc Ferrari make front engine GT cars, mid engines cars etc etc. V8, straight 6, V12 etc
McLaren make 2 seater sports cars with a carbon tub all with the same engine.
They are releasing 8 new cars , again all 2 seater with a carbon tub and that same engine ! !
In fact nothing has changed from the Mp4 12 C !
this is all they make, makes you wonder why so many models
Yes I’ve got too much time on my hands this morning ,
franki68 said:
On here there are 33 manuals listed including touring ,6 are pdk although listed as manual so 27 manuals .Including those 6 there are 17 pdk for sale .
Yes I’ve got too much time on my hands this morning ,
what does that have to do with my post that Macca only make 1 car type ;-)Yes I’ve got too much time on my hands this morning ,
Porsche911R said:
franki68 said:
On here there are 33 manuals listed including touring ,6 are pdk although listed as manual so 27 manuals .Including those 6 there are 17 pdk for sale .
Yes I’ve got too much time on my hands this morning ,
what does that have to do with my post that Macca only make 1 car type ;-)Yes I’ve got too much time on my hands this morning ,
Taffy66 said:
Due to Porsche's unrivaled profit they are able to allocate only a small percentage into R&D which translates to great roadcars. this is primarily the reason they haven't come up with a duffer in my living memory.
Having said that as the old saying goes 'Familiarity breeds contempt' Porsche are in danger of becoming a victim of its own success, Take the brilliance and allure of their GT cars out of the equation and they revert to just another mainstream car maker. If they continue to over exploit their GT cars then they risk losing their main brand ethos.
This is why i'm currently inexorably drawn towards Mclaren and Ferrari which haven't diluted their strong brand kudos by bulk building everyday cars.
I like the McLaren brand - and think the cars are awesome - but there is something to said about the proposition as a whole....but get what you're saying... Mclaren and Ferrari only built high performance cars.... no mass market models.Having said that as the old saying goes 'Familiarity breeds contempt' Porsche are in danger of becoming a victim of its own success, Take the brilliance and allure of their GT cars out of the equation and they revert to just another mainstream car maker. If they continue to over exploit their GT cars then they risk losing their main brand ethos.
This is why i'm currently inexorably drawn towards Mclaren and Ferrari which haven't diluted their strong brand kudos by bulk building everyday cars.
There are no new points in this video - https://youtu.be/4SmqNaUqTGo - but it does pull all threads into one piece.
I don't think all brands should or need to pander to the 'low-end'... for some their very reason for existence is for the top 1% - and to me there is nothing wrong with that, so at that level in the end if you're not worried about the money - you just buy each car on its own merit - drive it, use it and enjoy it.
Juno said:
av185 said:
Just been offered a high spec low mileage 570S for just over £100k.
Tempting.
Which means the owner will have lost circa 70-80K on that Tempting.
I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?The people I know who have McLaren's all rate the driving experience but the cost of ownership and the backup / lack of dealerships will always be a NO NO in my book.
I was devastated when I bought a 991.1 GT3 at the overs peak to get the newest best thing and then sold 6 months later and lost £25k, peanuts by comparison.
I will stick with Porsche and even if the bubble bursts they will only loose £10 to £15k per year. Fantastic value.
TDT said:
I like the McLaren brand - and think the cars are awesome - but there is something to said about the proposition as a whole....but get what you're saying... Mclaren and Ferrari only built high performance cars.... no mass market models.
There are no new points in this video - https://youtu.be/4SmqNaUqTGo - but it does pull all threads into one piece.
I don't think all brands should or need to pander to the 'low-end'... for some their very reason for existence is for the top 1% - and to me there is nothing wrong with that, so at that level in the end if you're not worried about the money - you just buy each car on its own merit - drive it, use it and enjoy it.
You rapidly become 'low end' if you continue to rip the 'top end' off with poor support, substandard build quality, a new model weekly and horrendous residuals.There are no new points in this video - https://youtu.be/4SmqNaUqTGo - but it does pull all threads into one piece.
I don't think all brands should or need to pander to the 'low-end'... for some their very reason for existence is for the top 1% - and to me there is nothing wrong with that, so at that level in the end if you're not worried about the money - you just buy each car on its own merit - drive it, use it and enjoy it.
If I were in the market for a Senna at present, I would be looking for some share certificates in the glove box for £800k.
Geoff39GL said:
I will stick with Porsche and even if the bubble bursts they will only loose £10 to £15k per year. Fantastic value.
Without doubt Porsche GT cars offer an awful lot for your hard earned. The main in reason Porsche are able to sell these cars at this price is because there’s so much tech and indeed parts shared with more humble cars in the Porsche range...and obviously in turn the Cayenne and Macan share platforms with other VW Group cars. Without that 911’s would be a lot more expensive and would suffer a lot worse depreciation. Cheib said:
Geoff39GL said:
I will stick with Porsche and even if the bubble bursts they will only loose £10 to £15k per year. Fantastic value.
Without doubt Porsche GT cars offer an awful lot for your hard earned. The main in reason Porsche are able to sell these cars at this price is because there’s so much tech and indeed parts shared with more humble cars in the Porsche range...and obviously in turn the Cayenne and Macan share platforms with other VW Group cars. Without that 911’s would be a lot more expensive and would suffer a lot worse depreciation. Porsche911R said:
av185 said:
Yes I tend to think that the 458 Speciale 488 and Performante are to an extent being dragged down by the sheer choice and oversupply of barely used Mclarens hitting the market.
McLaren are not like Porsche or Ferrari, they make 5000 PA and guess what they are all the same design, a 2 seater car with a carbon tub with a turbo V8 !!so the same as a 12c really !
Porsche make Macans, 4 seaters, turbos, Suv etc etc Ferrari make front engine GT cars, mid engines cars etc etc. V8, straight 6, V12 etc
McLaren make 2 seater sports cars with a carbon tub all with the same engine.
They are releasing 8 new cars , again all 2 seater with a carbon tub and that same engine ! !
In fact nothing has changed from the Mp4 12 C !
this is all they make, makes you wonder why so many models
Let me see,the 570 tub is not the same as the 12.
The new flag ship,is not a 2 seater or same engine.
The 720 is not the same tub or engine.
A italian sports car manufacturer have been knocking out new models since year dot,a lot of the chassis are total s
t,and some models are regular visitors for rewelding engine mounts,and chassis cracks.The depreciation on a used higher than normal mileage italian anything ,is huge.
Mclaren are british which is a great bonus,they need to make a 540/570 to keep makeing the ltd edition models they do as in 500 not thousands like ferrari and porsche.
There are many people out there who dont care two hoots what the depreciation on a car they choose to own is as they want a car to drive not sit and chew on a small minority owners forum about how much money it might cost them.
I would consider a ltd edition from porsche would be 500 or less not 6500 rs,or as they used to every year ltd edition 50cars,as they can subsidise ltd runs,but sadly choose not to.
I have been waiting along time for a two seat midengine carbon tub car from porsche since the cgt,as it would no doubt be as good or better than a maca,but this got shelved as well by the bean counters i guess.
av185 said:
Twinfan said:
380 manuals and 254 PDK according to the 2018 Q2 DVLA registrations figures.
For the GT3 RS there were 123 but also 15 manuals(!) so I suspect there are a few that were mis-registered.
Inaccuracies are rife.For the GT3 RS there were 123 but also 15 manuals(!) so I suspect there are a few that were mis-registered.
And don't forget the 'manuels' numbers include all Tourings.
That’s like saying don’t forget some of the pdk cars aren’t clubsport!
Well I paid 67k for my 997GTS in June 2011 and was offered £69k trade in by a very well known independent a few weeks ago.................so on that basis the GT cars are priced about right? (and I know I should have bought the 997.2 GT3 I looked at at in June 2011 at £84K..............!!)
n17ves said:
The ‘blip’ in manual cars being registered between 2013/16 will be imports, as they will be classed a new car registration and how many left doesn’t different between 996, 997 and 991. How many left (DVLA) also doesn’t appear to differentiates between the GT3 and GT3 touring, which would explain why there is more manuals then PDK.
Looking at the rest of the 991 GT3 range and its evident there isn’t exactly a shortage of modern GT cars, plus we still haven’t even had the second batch of RS’s!
991.1 GT3 339
991.1 GT3 RS 316
991.1 R 72
991.2 GT3 641
991.2 GT3 RS 123
Total 1491
Add 996 and 997 into the equation, and it does makes you wonder how on earth these track cars are still finding enough buyers to command a premium…
Ponzi scheme of the dealer network assisting people flipping new cars is the only thing that's keeping the gravy train going. They even appear to have got away with the Cadbury engine saga although that will probably bite more when the engine warranties expire. Looking at the rest of the 991 GT3 range and its evident there isn’t exactly a shortage of modern GT cars, plus we still haven’t even had the second batch of RS’s!
991.1 GT3 339
991.1 GT3 RS 316
991.1 R 72
991.2 GT3 641
991.2 GT3 RS 123
Total 1491
Add 996 and 997 into the equation, and it does makes you wonder how on earth these track cars are still finding enough buyers to command a premium…
Juno said:
Which means the owner will have lost circa 70-80K on that I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?
I’ve done it twice now (bought 2 new 570’s) and I won’t be doing it again. It’s not the depreciation that hurts but the lack of transparency. I got circa 15k off my 570 spider but then not long after you hear of 40k dealer contributions on new cars which just leaves you feeling like you’ve been had. I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?IMO McLaren will pay the price for over production, giving huge discounts, poor reliability and lack of support for prices of its cars.
I will be cancelling my 600LT spider order
GT4RS said:
av185 said:
Twinfan said:
380 manuals and 254 PDK according to the 2018 Q2 DVLA registrations figures.
For the GT3 RS there were 123 but also 15 manuals(!) so I suspect there are a few that were mis-registered.
Inaccuracies are rife.For the GT3 RS there were 123 but also 15 manuals(!) so I suspect there are a few that were mis-registered.
And don't forget the 'manuels' numbers include all Tourings.
That’s like saying don’t forget some of the pdk cars aren’t clubsport!
This being that because the GT3 Touring is only available as a 'manuel', this means there are more GT3 'manuels' than PDKs.
Whether there are more winged 'manuels' than PDKs no-one knows for sure but imo it is doubtful. I already posted there are currently 11 winged 'manuels' and 12 winged PDKs for sale on the OPC used car locator and a few weeks back there were only 3 proper spec clubsport 'manuels' and 3 clubsport PDKs so it appears reasonable parity atm.
5050 said:
Juno said:
Which means the owner will have lost circa 70-80K on that I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?
I’ve done it twice now (bought 2 new 570’s) and I won’t be doing it again. It’s not the depreciation that hurts but the lack of transparency. I got circa 15k off my 570 spider but then not long after you hear of 40k dealer contributions on new cars which just leaves you feeling like you’ve been had. I ask how many times would someone be stupid enough to do that Easy to get burnt want but surely you wouldn’t fall for it twice ?IMO McLaren will pay the price for over production, giving huge discounts, poor reliability and lack of support for prices of its cars.
I will be cancelling my 600LT spider order
Here's a typical example,someone trying to sell a 570 Spyder private as he has a 600LT on order https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=u...
That's probably another example of a dealer who doesn't want the part exchange
or they are really screwing him over hence the private sale.Edited by Juno on Monday 19th November 21:04
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Disagree, and judging by 5050s recent post (McLaren owner and cancelled LT order) so do many others too.From what you are saying presumably economic costings have no bearing whatsoever on your decision in owning and running your Boxster over other cars?
Doubtful.
I am fully aware of the historical aspects of depreciation affecting cars and in particular Porsche GTs.
Pre 991.1 GT3 in late 2013 even the 997 4.0 GT3 RS (28 UK cars) depreciated but the 991 changed this largely due to the low interest rate scenario and asset class switching at the time. I ordered my car in September 2013 some 6 months after it's announcement and secured one of the last cars fully expecting it to depreciate as normal and like the 997 before it. Ditto for the 981 Spyder and the GT4.
The point being that most expect SOME depreciation on a car even as capable as a GT3. Indeed many think that the overs scenario is a one way ticket to riches but unless you sell or flip immediately and don't trade in this is certainly not the case.
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both
) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.And many people are not in that category.
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