gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!
Discussion
av185 said:
Disagree, and judging by 5050s recent post (McLaren owner and cancelled LT order) so do many others too.
From what you are saying presumably economic costings have no bearing whatsoever on your decision in owning and running your Boxster over other cars?
Doubtful.
I am fully aware of the historical aspects of depreciation affecting cars and in particular Porsche GTs.
Pre 991.1 GT3 in late 2013 even the 997 4.0 GT3 RS (28 UK cars) depreciated but the 991 changed this largely due to the low interest rate scenario and asset class switching at the time. I ordered my car in September 2013 some 6 months after it's announcement and secured one of the last cars fully expecting it to depreciate as normal and like the 997 before it. Ditto for the 981 Spyder and the GT4.
The point being that most expect SOME depreciation on a car even as capable as a GT3. Indeed many think that the overs scenario is a one way ticket to riches but unless you sell or flip immediately and don't trade in this is certainly not the case.
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both
) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.
And many people are not in that category.
100% agree, very well explained and illustrated From what you are saying presumably economic costings have no bearing whatsoever on your decision in owning and running your Boxster over other cars?
Doubtful.
I am fully aware of the historical aspects of depreciation affecting cars and in particular Porsche GTs.
Pre 991.1 GT3 in late 2013 even the 997 4.0 GT3 RS (28 UK cars) depreciated but the 991 changed this largely due to the low interest rate scenario and asset class switching at the time. I ordered my car in September 2013 some 6 months after it's announcement and secured one of the last cars fully expecting it to depreciate as normal and like the 997 before it. Ditto for the 981 Spyder and the GT4.
The point being that most expect SOME depreciation on a car even as capable as a GT3. Indeed many think that the overs scenario is a one way ticket to riches but unless you sell or flip immediately and don't trade in this is certainly not the case.
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both
) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.And many people are not in that category.
av185 said:
Disagree, and judging by 5050s recent post (McLaren owner and cancelled LT order) so do many others too.
From what you are saying presumably economic costings have no bearing whatsoever on your decision in owning and running your Boxster over other cars?
Doubtful.
I am fully aware of the historical aspects of depreciation affecting cars and in particular Porsche GTs.
Pre 991.1 GT3 in late 2013 even the 997 4.0 GT3 RS (28 UK cars) depreciated but the 991 changed this largely due to the low interest rate scenario and asset class switching at the time. I ordered my car in September 2013 some 6 months after it's announcement and secured one of the last cars fully expecting it to depreciate as normal and like the 997 before it. Ditto for the 981 Spyder and the GT4.
The point being that most expect SOME depreciation on a car even as capable as a GT3. Indeed many think that the overs scenario is a one way ticket to riches but unless you sell or flip immediately and don't trade in this is certainly not the case.
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.
And many people are not in that category.
Couldn’t have put it better myself.. From what you are saying presumably economic costings have no bearing whatsoever on your decision in owning and running your Boxster over other cars?
Doubtful.
I am fully aware of the historical aspects of depreciation affecting cars and in particular Porsche GTs.
Pre 991.1 GT3 in late 2013 even the 997 4.0 GT3 RS (28 UK cars) depreciated but the 991 changed this largely due to the low interest rate scenario and asset class switching at the time. I ordered my car in September 2013 some 6 months after it's announcement and secured one of the last cars fully expecting it to depreciate as normal and like the 997 before it. Ditto for the 981 Spyder and the GT4.
The point being that most expect SOME depreciation on a car even as capable as a GT3. Indeed many think that the overs scenario is a one way ticket to riches but unless you sell or flip immediately and don't trade in this is certainly not the case.
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both
) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.And many people are not in that category.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The new thing is because a real high performance car is likely to have been thrashed so that while you can have a good experience buying secondhand you may be unlucky, which would be frustrating particularly if you have paid over the odds. I could argue with you about Porsche and VW. Cayenne & Touareg, Panamera & Bentley, and so on. You are probably right about the Cayman R. I guess that what riles me about Porsche is that here is a company making high end 4x4’s and businessmen’s cars, with a sports car end which seems to be getting constantly tamer( a theme which has been going on since the 928) given star quality by GT cars which most of us can’t actually buy. I applaud the 911 Carrera T, but I think if they were serious they would try a little bit harder than just riffle through the parts bin. Sorry! There I go again. Whatever our other friend was saying about being able to buy a GT3 without any problem, that is not the normal experience. Go into an OPC and they will laugh at you.
Ferrari have got closer to making a turbo engine that sounds the part than anyone else. I do not accept the regulation excuse. They know what people want, they have to find ways of delivering it.
I know that McLaren equally struggle with engine sound, and I think that one of the ways they could build their corner of the market is to do what they have so far failed to do, which is use all of their vaunted technological ability to deliver a turbo engine which sounds fantastic, and offer a fabulous manual gearbox. If they did that they would add further depth to their appeal to enthusiastic drivers, and maybe build up a bigger queue in the second hand market.
Macca suffer from the Lotus type thing of firing off too many "new" variants they have built in obsolescence. They are also a good few years behind the likes of Porsche and Ferrari in terms of brand heritage that's where the depreciation cones from. You do wonder where they will be at the end of the cheap money era.
Warranties are crazily expensive as well in fact they are so expensive it makes you wonder what they know and you don't...yet!
I'm out.
Warranties are crazily expensive as well in fact they are so expensive it makes you wonder what they know and you don't...yet!
I'm out.
Edited by fridaypassion on Monday 19th November 22:22
av185 said:
It's not about McLaren owners being hacked off because these cars lose SOME value but more about them being hacked off because Mclarens lose a disproportionate amount and WAY more money than their competitors. The kind of money we are talking about here means you have either got to be very rich or very stupid (or a combination of both ) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.
And many people are not in that category.
Wondering at the categories being suggested here - "very rich" for a McLaren.) to be able to commit to ordering a new specced up car.And many people are not in that category.
Surely, given that this thread is dedicated to £180,000 cars, everyone in it is, by definition, very rich?
This is the 0.01% rather than the 1% (1% being those who earn over £162,000/year in the UK).
I'd imagine that you would need a salary of around half a million quid a year to consider a GT3 in order to maintain a sane cost of car to salary ratio, and at that sort of level yes, an £80,000 loss is going to hurt, but as a percentage it's not a huge amount of money.
A good analogy to this would be someone like Martin Lewis who I admire btw.
He sold his money supermarket website business for what...£85 million.
But still demands value for money.
Not suffering heavy depreciation on cars is simply another aspect of this.
And this also makes the ownership and driving experience of relatively expensive and interesting cars all the more rewarding.
He sold his money supermarket website business for what...£85 million.
But still demands value for money.
Not suffering heavy depreciation on cars is simply another aspect of this.
And this also makes the ownership and driving experience of relatively expensive and interesting cars all the more rewarding.
Juno said:
Thank you for your honesty,thats exactly how I called it on the Mclaren forum some time ago, customers can't just keep sucking up that level of craziness.
Here's a typical example,someone trying to sell a 570 Spyder private as he has a 600LT on order https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=u...
That's probably another example of a dealer who doesn't want the part exchange
or they are really screwing him over hence the private sale.
Here's a typical example,someone trying to sell a 570 Spyder private as he has a 600LT on order https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=u...
That's probably another example of a dealer who doesn't want the part exchange
or they are really screwing him over hence the private sale.That’s not how I see that. He wants a high price for an admittedly high spec and very attractive 2018 570S, and the only way he sees of achieving that is by cutting the dealer out of the loop. Did he not anticipate taking a bath when he decided to chop in a six month old car also, as it happens, loaded with a Christmas tree of options. I take exception to dealers refusing to sell me cars, but to expect not to lose heavily in that situation seems naive. It’s almost 2019. What is that car going to retail for? Something akin to what he is asking, maybe, so what can the dealer reasonably offer him? I rather suspect that the dealer has encouraged him to have a go at selling it privately if that helps him buy the 600LT.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 19th November 23:09
You can call the Mclaren marketing and sales model.
But I don't think you can call the cars.
I have had quite a bit of time driving my pals 570, being in my car behind it and in front of it as well.
They are a good car, if they are cheap, happy days for drivers who did not get a GT3!
They have the Formula 1 kudos and I bet a lot of people are criticising them without actually having owned one.
If I have a GT3 am I not allowed to like other cars?
Imagine a mid engined, carbon tubbed GT3, with gull winged doors and a 3.4Ltr turbo engine.
Thats probably what the 993 GT3 will be like in 7 years!
But I don't think you can call the cars.
I have had quite a bit of time driving my pals 570, being in my car behind it and in front of it as well.
They are a good car, if they are cheap, happy days for drivers who did not get a GT3!
They have the Formula 1 kudos and I bet a lot of people are criticising them without actually having owned one.
If I have a GT3 am I not allowed to like other cars?
Imagine a mid engined, carbon tubbed GT3, with gull winged doors and a 3.4Ltr turbo engine.
Thats probably what the 993 GT3 will be like in 7 years!
Dammit said:
Christ, I've led a sheltered life - I'd never, in a million years, buy a car that was twice what I earned in a year.
I find it hard to believe that people do so, but I'll take your word on it.
Believe it sonny. Half a million a year to buy a GT3? You just lack commitment. Only one thing matters. Can you make the payments? I find it hard to believe that people do so, but I'll take your word on it.
Purple Man said:
You can call the Mclaren marketing and sales model.
But I don't think you can call the cars.
I have had quite a bit of time driving my pals 570, being in my car behind it and in front of it as well.
They are a good car, if they are cheap, happy days for drivers who did not get a GT3!
They have the Formula 1 kudos and I bet a lot of people are criticising them without actually having owned one.
If I have a GT3 am I not allowed to like other cars?
Imagine a mid engined, carbon tubbed GT3, with gull winged doors and a 3.4Ltr turbo engine.
Thats probably what the 993 GT3 will be like in 7 years!
I owned one, pita.But I don't think you can call the cars.
I have had quite a bit of time driving my pals 570, being in my car behind it and in front of it as well.
They are a good car, if they are cheap, happy days for drivers who did not get a GT3!
They have the Formula 1 kudos and I bet a lot of people are criticising them without actually having owned one.
If I have a GT3 am I not allowed to like other cars?
Imagine a mid engined, carbon tubbed GT3, with gull winged doors and a 3.4Ltr turbo engine.
Thats probably what the 993 GT3 will be like in 7 years!
I see similarities with JLR. I hope they don’t go the same way, I worry they won’t be able to ride the storm.
And to be fair, playing with your mates car is not same as owning one......... it’s like the grandparents babysitting.
I've long had cars that are around my annual salary or maybe two cars that were the same or more. When I was employed a few years ago my old workmates thought I was a drug dealer but I had just built up equity over a few years that's all. They are busy loosing money on new fords. Nothing wrong with a bit of finance as well it seems to be a dirty word amongst the powerfully built directors that make up pistonheads but most high end cars are bought with finance.
The only issue comes when the finance is on an asset that is free falling in value so the right gt3 you could treat as a rental for 2 years but the wrong car will destroy you. My current steer will lose me 15 to 20k over 2 years (evora) but it's offset by other stuff we have that's been busy appreciating that's my man maths. Having 80k go on a gt3 RS or McLaren must be devastating but many will just roll the losses into a new pcp so you never actually have to confront it.
McLaren do unsurprisingly offer some very tempting finance deals. I recently bought a car from a guy that was using just 30k of capital to get into a 570 with petty low monthly payments. Balloon must be interesting though!
The only issue comes when the finance is on an asset that is free falling in value so the right gt3 you could treat as a rental for 2 years but the wrong car will destroy you. My current steer will lose me 15 to 20k over 2 years (evora) but it's offset by other stuff we have that's been busy appreciating that's my man maths. Having 80k go on a gt3 RS or McLaren must be devastating but many will just roll the losses into a new pcp so you never actually have to confront it.
McLaren do unsurprisingly offer some very tempting finance deals. I recently bought a car from a guy that was using just 30k of capital to get into a 570 with petty low monthly payments. Balloon must be interesting though!
fridaypassion said:
McLaren do unsurprisingly offer some very tempting finance deals. I recently bought a car from a guy that was using just 30k of capital to get into a 570 with petty low monthly payments. Balloon must be interesting though!
That’s pretty typical for a PCP from what I understand....10 or 20 % deposit. I suppose the advantage of that deal is that he knows day one what it will cost him to own it for two years...probably something like £50k. browngt3 said:
Dammit said:
I'd imagine that you would need a salary of around half a million quid a year to consider a GT3
Bloody hell 
Dammit said:
Christ, I've led a sheltered life - I'd never, in a million years, buy a car that was twice what I earned in a year.
I find it hard to believe that people do so, but I'll take your word on it.
my cars are worth over 8x my PA wage.I find it hard to believe that people do so, but I'll take your word on it.
That's what car nutters do, my mates cars are worth about 8x his wage also.
Any one can buy a supercar imo.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 20th November 08:21
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