gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!

gt3 ...138 cars for sale !!!!

Author
Discussion

PantsFire

519 posts

79 months

Sunday 23rd September 2018
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GT4RS said:
Essential said:
Plus once all the posters on here who have said they wanted a car to drive and use, as apposed to flipping, but were not allocated a new car can now buy one at list, this should take up the rest of the supply. smilesmilesmilesmile
I’m sure many of them posters would of preferred to build and spec there own car when paying list price!
Agreed.

I have no interest in supporting dealer assisted flipping. I wanted a GT3 Touring, I'd happily have paid the price quoted on the configurator as would dozens of other Porsche fans who were told they couldn't have one.

I'd consider a used car in a similar spec to what I wanted, but with reasonable depreciation, maybe 10% below retail, if that scenario doesn't happen then I'm not interested and there is a hundred other cars out there I want to own.

GT4RS

4,395 posts

196 months

Sunday 23rd September 2018
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Pantsfire, I’m sure most potential buyers are thinking the same. IMO Porsche have lost a number of Porsche enthusiasts to Mclaren and other brands due to this crazy overs situation.


Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Many feel that way now and are not interested in perpetuating this circus.

This is still a niche market, frustrated clients with good GT buying history, now voting with their feet and not interested in lining several pockets.

Not sure the best way forward longer term, is for an OPC to proudly advertise on social media, they have lots ‘flipped’ cars for sale either.

Sends the wrong message entirely, and poses more questions than answers IMV.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
Pantsfire, I’m sure most potential buyers are thinking the same. IMO Porsche have lost a number of Porsche enthusiasts to Mclaren and other brands due to this crazy overs situation.
yep and just think what buying a McLaren has lost people , £60k in 12k months ! so paying overs on a GT3 at say £30k you are still better off in 12 months

people get stuck up on list price, when I sold my last car , I got so many phone calls saying I want to pay list !! they got a rude response and I guess still don't own GT cars.

no ones ever going to get a GT3 T at 10% below list so people are just missing out, and life's too short if that's the dream car.

My cars the best thing I have ever owned and if it costs me £40k (which it won't imo) to run for 3 years that's not bad vs a McLaren !

These GT3 even at £50k overs are far better value than Ferrari and McLaren and will cost less to own ! and that's why other people are buying them.

Just think what the 1st owner lost on the Aston Martin Vanquish Coupe pantsfire owns !


browngt3

1,409 posts

210 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Porsche911R said:
GT4RS said:
Pantsfire, I’m sure most potential buyers are thinking the same. IMO Porsche have lost a number of Porsche enthusiasts to Mclaren and other brands due to this crazy overs situation.
yep and just think what buying a McLaren has lost people , £60k in 12k months ! so paying overs on a GT3 at say £30k you are still better off in 12 months

people get stuck up on list price, when I sold my last car , I got so many phone calls saying I want to pay list !! they got a rude response and I guess still don't own GT cars.

no ones ever going to get a GT3 T at 10% below list so people are just missing out, and life's too short if that's the dream car.

My cars the best thing I have ever owned and if it costs me £40k (which it won't imo) to run for 3 years that's not bad vs a McLaren !

These GT3 even at £50k overs are far better value than Ferrari and McLaren and will cost less to own ! and that's why other people are buying them.

Just think what the 1st owner lost on the Aston Martin Vanquish Coupe pantsfire owns !
Agreed!

The GT3 remains excellent value even at 160k imo. And remember this price is probably nearer true value as most continental markets seem to be around this level. Some markets much more.

If you really are a Porsche fan you'd be talking to multiple dealers and negotiating hard to get one. Buyers market afterall..

Tony 1234

3,465 posts

226 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Juno said:
...... and IMO they won’t drop below list anytime this Centuary!
I agree, think once most of the cars are sold just watch the value rise again-last of the NA cars possibly

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Tony 1234 said:
I agree, think once most of the cars are sold just watch the value rise again-last of the NA cars possibly
that's the gamble , because if they are then yes up they go.

But a big gamble, atm they are just the best cars out there imo, and even if they drop they won't do that much.

only car which interests me and is dropping is the Performante now at £222k but it's a bit much as a road car.

v8ksn

4,711 posts

183 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
yep and just think what buying a McLaren has lost people , £60k in 12k months ! so paying overs on a GT3 at say £30k you are still better off in 12 months

people get stuck up on list price, when I sold my last car , I got so many phone calls saying I want to pay list !! they got a rude response and I guess still don't own GT cars.

no ones ever going to get a GT3 T at 10% below list so people are just missing out, and life's too short if that's the dream car.

My cars the best thing I have ever owned and if it costs me £40k (which it won't imo) to run for 3 years that's not bad vs a McLaren !

These GT3 even at £50k overs are far better value than Ferrari and McLaren and will cost less to own ! and that's why other people are buying them.

Just think what the 1st owner lost on the Aston Martin Vanquish Coupe pantsfire owns !
This all makes sense for a buyer who gets a GT4 at list and then a GT3 at list.

If you have been refused a GT4 and then offered one over list then get refused a GT3 and then offered one over list it can be a little frustrating.

Also, the TOC and the TCO is muddied somewhat by the various transactions one has to go through to get an allocation for a GT product nowaday.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
v8ksn said:
This all makes sense for a buyer who gets a GT4 at list and then a GT3 at list.

If you have been refused a GT4 and then offered one over list then get refused a GT3 and then offered one over list it can be a little frustrating.

Also, the TOC and the TCO is muddied somewhat by the various transactions one has to go through to get an allocation for a GT product nowaday.
I would say a good 50% buyers have paid backward overs for these cars in some way, people have been buying GT4 at well over list from OPC and not using them , then part exing back for the GT3 at a massive loss.

I paid list for my GT4 but part ex it back £10k loss !

Others have had to buy Macans etc, one guy bought 20 Macans via his business to get a car !

List price is a pipe dream for many buyers even ones who get new cars.

so the issue is VIP flip the cars, And a big % already pay backward overs for the cars ! if the VIP flip them then that means most people are paying overs and it's not as simple as you think.

If you don't play the game you don't get one, too many people moaning about list price when hardly any one paid list bar the VIP clients who just flip them anyway.


That means most current owners now have done something to secure a car or know a sales guy there, or just buy a new cars every year, and PH moaners wanting to buy cars less then list will never get one, or buy a new one either as they won't play the backwards over game.

As an example did you goto your dealer and say, you can have my GT3 for £45k if I get a 991 GT3 allocation ?

I cannot buy a 600lt as an example ! or a Pista, or any other branded rare car ! and my GT3 cost me £155k really.

You can now buy GT3's for £155k with out all the hassle so not sure why 2nd hand buyers are that unhappy, it's prob a cheaper way to buy GT cars.


Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 24th September 10:22

isaldiri

18,407 posts

167 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Imo, it is nonsense to consider 'under flipping' equivalent to actually having to pay real actual overs. One gets a gt car at list, drives it (or not as it turns out) for a period of time, hands it back at the OPC for no loss even if not quite at the true market value in return for the next new shiny GT car that is worth even more over list. In that situation, it's totally a no loss situation.

Everyone would do it if they had the chance - nice car to drive, free motoring, next new must have car lined up. Why not? Not being to extract every last pence of the overs situation is neither here nor there. The issue is depreciation proof motoring at minimum with the strong possibility of a decent profit irrespective of whether the cars are flipped immediately or returned later to OPC for the next thing. Expected financial return is always positive -until that changes the scrabble for cars isn't going to change.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
Imo, it is nonsense to consider 'under flipping' equivalent to actually having to pay real actual overs. One gets a gt car at list, drives it (or not as it turns out) for a period of time, hands it back at the OPC for no loss even if not quite at the true market value in return for the next new shiny GT car that is worth even more over list. In that situation, it's totally a no loss situation.

Everyone would do it if they had the chance - nice car to drive, free motoring, next new must have car lined up. Why not? Not being to extract every last pence of the overs situation is neither here nor there. The issue is depreciation proof motoring at minimum with the strong possibility of a decent profit irrespective of whether the cars are flipped immediately or returned later to OPC for the next thing. Expected financial return is always positive -until that changes the scrabble for cars isn't going to change.
under flipping is not backwards overs, the under flippers are getting RS models and yes that's just as wrong but an OPC ran thing and yes every one wants that piece of the pie but that's for the very few, there are not that many GT3 for sale really, 22 pdk 8 manuals 3 tourings, from 500 odd cars at OPC's !

so the free car to use for the next GT car is for the very few in your example.

Backward overs is real money overs. ie people buying GT4's at £85k in shows rooms and getting £70k back for them. or people like me part exing cars less than trade value to get a slot as I don't buy new cars so it's my only bargain chip I can play.

in hind site I should have kept my GT4 as the whole thing was a stress full 18 months, but I would have only bought another car which would have 1/2 in price as I want a Exige 410 and would have paid new price for one and lost ££££ more than the £20k I paid overs for my Gt3.

Jon666

118 posts

125 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
I chuckle at the people who, having paid list themselves, come on here and explain why people should be happy to pay overs. Easy to spend others peoples money (especially when you stand to gain).

The game is up as far as I’m concerned. I’ve paid list and I’ve paid overs for my GT cars. I’m now finished with the GT circus, as are many other I know, and will wait for the market to drop back to normality. The market will return to normal with depreciation returning.

v8ksn

4,711 posts

183 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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Porsche911R said:
As an example did you goto your dealer and say, you can have my GT3 for £45k if I get a 991 GT3 allocation ?
I asked my OPC for a GT4 allocation, I was rejected. They wouldnt even take a deposit.

A couple of months after they were released, I received a 'GREAT NEWS' phonecall offering me a GT4 for well over £100k. With a part exchange offering of £45k for my GT3. I kindly declined the 'opportunity'

Recently, I asked them about part exchanging my GT3 for a 991.2 GT3 and was reluctantly offered less than £40k with no guarantee of a car. The salesperson was just not interested at all.

These two experiences make me think long and hard about what I wanted from a drivers car. Speed is not everything and I feel that modern GT cars are too fast to use sensibly on the road anyway as the speeds the cars can achieve are truly mind boggling. The fun no longer outweighs the risk IMO.

My GT3 is now sold. I'm going back to an air-cooled 911 and will get my kicks at a slower lick biggrin

isaldiri

18,407 posts

167 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
Backward overs is real money overs. ie people buying GT4's at £85k in shows rooms and getting £70k back for them. or people like me part exing cars less than trade value to get a slot as I don't buy new cars so it's my only bargain chip I can play.
You bought your gt4 new I believe. If trading it in at the OPC under trade value got you a gt3 at list I don't think you have much to complain about......

BrotherMouzone

3,169 posts

173 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Jon666 said:
I chuckle at the people who, having paid list themselves, come on here and explain why people should be happy to pay overs. Easy to spend others peoples money (especially when you stand to gain.
+1

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I would say a good 50% buyers have paid backward overs for these cars in some way, people have been buying GT4 at well over list from OPC and not using them , then part exing back for the GT3 at a massive loss.

I paid list for my GT4 but part ex it back £10k loss !

Others have had to buy Macans etc, one guy bought 20 Macans via his business to get a car !

List price is a pipe dream for many buyers even ones who get new cars.

so the issue is VIP flip the cars, And a big % already pay backward overs for the cars ! if the VIP flip them then that means most people are paying overs and it's not as simple as you think.

If you don't play the game you don't get one, too many people moaning about list price when hardly any one paid list bar the VIP clients who just flip them anyway.


That means most current owners now have done something to secure a car or know a sales guy there, or just buy a new cars every year, and PH moaners wanting to buy cars less then list will never get one, or buy a new one either as they won't play the backwards over game.

As an example did you goto your dealer and say, you can have my GT3 for £45k if I get a 991 GT3 allocation ?

I cannot buy a 600lt as an example ! or a Pista, or any other branded rare car ! and my GT3 cost me £155k really.

You can now buy GT3's for £155k with out all the hassle so not sure why 2nd hand buyers are that unhappy, it's prob a cheaper way to buy GT cars.


Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 24th September 10:22
This is exactly how it works..Everything Mr D has said above goes on in most if not all OPCs..If i sold my GT3 at say £20K overs now i'd still be lucky to breakeven, if you take into account the reverse overs.
I'm hoping for a new RS next year as i feel i've done my bit, however if i don't get one and my allocation goes to a flipper instead then i intend to buy other makes..An used Lotus Exige 410/430 appeals to me as does a Performante at sub £200K..
OPCs need to be very wary on how they choose who to allocate their GT cars in the next six months or so..If the overs market disappears then they won't be able to rely on their flippers for sales as they'll move on to the next investment..

Edited by Taffy66 on Monday 24th September 12:34

Double gauche

316 posts

96 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
Backward overs is real money overs. ie people buying GT4's at £85k in shows rooms and getting £70k back for them. or people like me part exing cars less than trade value to get a slot as I don't buy new cars so it's my only bargain chip I can play.
You bought your gt4 new I believe. If trading it in at the OPC under trade value got you a gt3 at list I don't think you have much to complain about......
Not sure anyone is complaining though!
The net of the convoluted argument is that he effectively paid overs for the car by being knowingly lowballed on part ex..
And it's still a value purchase. I can see that.
Second time i've agreed with 911R in one week . I need help !!! 10.gif

v8ksn

4,711 posts

183 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Double gauche said:
isaldiri said:
Porsche911R said:
Backward overs is real money overs. ie people buying GT4's at £85k in shows rooms and getting £70k back for them. or people like me part exing cars less than trade value to get a slot as I don't buy new cars so it's my only bargain chip I can play.
You bought your gt4 new I believe. If trading it in at the OPC under trade value got you a gt3 at list I don't think you have much to complain about......
Not sure anyone is complaining though!
The net of the convoluted argument is that he effectively paid overs for the car by being knowingly lowballed on part ex..
And it's still a value purchase. I can see that.
Second time i've agreed with 911R in one week . I need help !!! 10.gif
Once you are in 'the club' it all makes sense. At any point you can leave and sell whatever car you currently own and (most probably) make a profit. Its an easy decision to make. Onwards and upwards, over and over.

Given the following options, what would you rather do?

  • Give away your GT4 to an OPC for £10k less in order to get a GT3 that will trade for list + £40k
  • Give an OPC £40k over list for a new GT3
Posters have made their position clear. If they get thrown out the club and are refused the next new shiny GT trinket they will leave the brand.


boxsey

3,574 posts

209 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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There are many like me that don't get hung up on not being 'allowed' to to buy a new car and have been content to pay overs for our GT car. There are plenty of positives in buying in at overs; you've been able to see where the market price has settled (providing you wait at least a couple of years), you have plenty of choice and can physically see/feel the spec you're buying rather than wait until your order lands, you don't have to buy other models you don't want/need, you don't lose money on those unwanted cars and you don't have to suck up to anyone when you buy it.

Tony 1234

3,465 posts

226 months

Monday 24th September 2018
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If others are like me I won't be in profit when I sell my car given the amounts lost on purchasing other cars I didn't want.