So let the 997.1 gt3 search begin...

[SFO]

Dblue said:

My 97.1 RS had 3 separate warranty claims whilst I owned it and all were sorted without quibble by Porsche Hatfield under a used Porsche warranty. The car had, then state of the art ,Michelin Pilot Super Sports - most definitely not N rated for a 2007 car - and they were quite aware of that.
they even insisted on a battery swap for the warranty but gave me no grief on the tyres.
IF you find a car with a Porsche warranty (Desirable) put decent modern MICHELIN tyres on it asap. Supersports were fantastic for the sort of year round use you're looking at but PS4S just as good.

recently fitted PS4S to my 7.2 GT3. was previously on PSS

I would say that the PS4S is better is all respects (grip, noise, handling etc) by between 10 and 20% than PSS

you need to find a friendly OPC who will overlook the tyres that are fitted when renewing warranty

I have never had a warranty claim rejected due to non N rated tyres

[Digga]

Dblue said:

Engine is very expensive to replace in a catastrophic failure, hoses letting go is an engine out job

For the benefit of the OP, if not yourself, coolant hoses blowing is a very well documented problem with the 997.1 and .2 GT3 and RS, so much so there's an argument Porsche ought to have had some sort of recall or revised service schedule. There are two aftermarket modifications - pinning (grub screws actually, not pins) or welding fittings - depending on which specialist(s) you ask, which will avoid this problem.

The issue is not that a slight leak develops into a bigger one, but rather that with high heat and pressure (i.e. WOT on track days) the bonding on one or more hose connections fails, catastrophically. This not only nearly always sprays your back tyres and send you off into the gravel (or, worse yet, barriers) but often tends to do even worse to those following.

From what I've been told by a number of people, if you go on a track day and have this happen to an un-modified car, you will be extremely unpopular.

Therein lies the dilemma, because AFAIK, you can't then get an OPC warranty.

[Steve Rance]

I think that this problem is mainly an issue in very hot climates. Its relatively uncommon in the UK but it would be worth having it done with a clutch change or any other mainatinence that required the engine being removed. I've done 1000's of track laps in 911GT3's and never seen that problem in the UK. It certainly wouldnt be a deal clincher for me.

[Dammit]

Some tracks in the US won't let you on if you have not had the pipes pinned.

[Digga]

Most know UK 996/7 GT/Turbo specialists have fixes, as do overseas outfits like Manthey and Sharkwerks, so the issue is sufficiently common (or rather sufficiently serious on the odd occasion it might happen) to be addressed.

[RC1]

never thought through the warranty implications of having the fix.

so bottom line is if the coolant pipe fix is done then if then an in-force warranty wont pay out. similarly, that same car wont pass a 111 point check to qualify for a porsche extended warranty if it doesnt have one already and i want to put one?

[Cunno]

Steve Rance said:

I think that this problem is mainly an issue in very hot climates. Its relatively uncommon in the UK but it would be worth having it done with a clutch change or any other mainatinence that required the engine being removed. I've done 1000's of track laps in 911GT3's and never seen that problem in the UK. It certainly wouldnt be a deal clincher for me.

This^^^^^
In the last 10 years of tracking my GT3 10-15 times a year I’ve seen 3 cases in the uk. Fail with this 2x 996s and 1x 997. It still a worry and I had mine welded when engine out. Seen more turbos have the issue on the road fail.
Don’t forget to maintain the rest of the cooling system the hoses (which there is a lot of) do shrink and can pop off under pressure as well, resulting in a very similar failure.

[isaldiri]

This year's summer was warm enough it did make me wonder about the hoses when taking the RS on a trackday I have to admit. What did Porsche Motorsport do on the Cup cars anyway as I can't imagine they left them glued?

[Slippydiff]

RC1 said:

never thought through the warranty implications of having the fix.

so bottom line is if the coolant pipe fix is done then if then an in-force warranty wont pay out. similarly, that same car wont pass a 111 point check to qualify for a porsche extended warranty if it doesnt have one already and i want to put one?

It’s a non issue from my perspective, I’d be amazed if ANY OPC warranty inspection would pick up the fact the coolant pipes had been pinned, or indeed welded.

Furthermore in my experience, catastrophic failures in the cooler climes of the UK are indeed rare, it’s far more likely the fittings will weep for a long time, rather than fail outright and dump the entire contents of the cooling system in one fell swoop.

If you should have a problem with the engine when the car is under warranty and get refused a claim, I’d suggest a call to the insurance ombudsman would have the desired effect ...
Such is the weight of evidence against Porsche that there is a problem with the coolant fittings (the results of which can be catastrophic if they fail) a warranty company would struggle to defend any claim.
Added to which, any individual who has had the coolant fitting fixed at his or her own cost, has only acted in the insurers best interests ...

[evodarren]

My Gt3 is eleven and a half years old, Never had a coolant problem. Is the percentages low on cars that have had this problem. Or does its only arise with multiple track use.

[Yellow491]

isaldiri said:

This year's summer was warm enough it did make me wonder about the hoses when taking the RS on a trackday I have to admit. What did Porsche Motorsport do on the Cup cars anyway as I can't imagine they left them glued?

They have a spring clip holding them in place,differant design,but more about getting a engine in and out effeciently.
As for n type approved tyres,i would challenge that,re warranty ,my car does not have n rate,the factory gt2rs that porsche done the rounds with and passenger laps etc did not either.

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

They have a spring clip holding them in place,differant design,but more about getting a engine in and out effeciently

I think you’re possibly talking about different cooling hoses Paul, the issues lie with the pressed in alumnium fittings on the various castings on the engine itself.



They too are glued in on the Cup engines as far as I know, and the rubber coolant pipes that connect to them are secured using either Jubilee clips or constant tension clips such as these :



The hoses/clips you’re talking about are the main feeds and returns to the radiators that run from the chassis to the engine :

[Digga]

evodarren said:

My Gt3 is eleven and a half years old, Never had a coolant problem. Is the percentages low on cars that have had this problem. Or does its only arise with multiple track use.

I've been told it is normally on track. So nothing to indicate a leak, and then one single, huge, catastrophic loss.

I think it is rare but at the same time, serious. It is not without reason that a quick Google will bring the topic up. I'd definitely agree is is far more likely in warmer climes, but how much warmer, I don't know. With temperatures rising both here and on the continent, it's not going to get less likely.

I see it very much as an issue at the top right of the risk matrix:



Exactly where you rank it is, obviously, subjective.

[Yellow491]

Slippydiff said:

I think you’re possibly talking about different cooling hoses Paul, the issues lie with the pressed in alumnium fittings on the various castings on the engine itself.



They too are glued in on the Cup engines as far as I know, and the rubber coolant pipes that connect to them are secured using either Jubilee clips or constant tension clips such as these :



The hoses/clips you’re talking about are the main feeds and returns to the radiators that run from the chassis to the engine :

Thanks slippy,i dont remember any cup cars pushing those fittings out,but a few have had the hoses where the spring clips fit,or should have been fitted!

[Slippydiff]

Yellow491 said:

Thanks slippy,i dont remember any cup cars pushing those fittings out,but a few have had the hoses where the spring clips fit,or should have been fitted!

Little known fact, those hoses utilise two very slightly different sized clips (that look almost identical) use the wrong clip in the wrong end of the hose and .... well I’ll leave it to your imagination what can happen ...

[D.no]

So. Of those of you that own Mezger engined cars, who's had the pipes welded/pinned?

WOT and heat build-up is not solely limited to track days (but I get the point) and the ramifications of such a failure on the road could be immeasurably worse. Taking a pro-active approach to this issue seems a no-brainer to me, unless there are any drawbacks associated with the remedial procedures (notwithstanding cost, of course).

For prospective purchasers, Is it relatively easy to spot whether the work has been done?

[BrotherMouzone]

What’s the cost from a Specialist?

Mine (996.2 GT3) hasn’t had it done, but the clutch doesn’t need doing and the diff (with Cup plate) is fine; I reckon the clutch still has plenty of life left.........

Only had the car since August and will be tracking the car no more than 6 times per year.

[Cunno]

BrotherMouzone said:

What’s the cost from a Specialist?

Mine (996.2 GT3) hasn’t had it done, but the clutch doesn’t need doing and the diff (with Cup plate) is fine; I reckon the clutch still has plenty of life left.........

Only had the car since August and will be tracking the car no more than 6 times per year.

As a stand alone job, its probably £2k most of that engine out and in cost 10-12 hrs. If engine already out about 700-1000 extra costs for having pipes done. Just make sure you have a very good welder

[BrotherMouzone]

Thank you.

[Digga]

Cunno said:

Just make sure you have a very good welder

^This.

My day job (no I don't get paid to post here) is in engineering. We MIG weld anything up to 5 tonne fabrications, in gauges from 3mm up to 60mm Hardox 450 steel, as well as the odd bit of thinner gauge TIG work and even aluminium. I personally would not weld fittings, but on the other hand, I do know very reputable firms (IIRC including Fearnsport and) that recommend this route.

My aversion two it is for a number of reasons:

• It's difficult to see how 'good' welds are all the way around.
• I have seen, first hand (on eyewateringly expensive mining equipment) how welding dissimilar metals can go wrong.
• It is not reversible if you damage/bend a fitting that's been welded in situ, for example.
• I have OCD.

Lots of people do have this done though and it does seem to work.