Is this a fair price for a 'leggy' gen 1 comfort gt3?

[Cunno]

RC1 said:

Cunno said:

Ferrari isn't a Porsche, no one is saying big bill can't come but buy wise and running cost can be kept reasonable

Porsche Gt3 v Sud

Scuderia this year (from memory)
- 3.5k for exhaust back box £750 on eBay new OPC
- 1.8k for brake pads £600 all 4 corners
- 1.7k for tyres £1200
- 4K for warranty believe £1500
- 3.7k for big service £650 from an Indy

consistent with my expectations and id be budgeting roughly 1k per annum for the warranty

for work id likely be using jzm or fearnsport but likely not an opc but would spanner myself on some things

Matt at Fearnsport is my Indy and would recommend.

[ttdan]

Cunno said:

ttdan said:

As Cunno ( hi mate) says, not a massively expensive car to run relatively speaking.

Hi Dan you doing RS day? Staying over night, before normal place?

not there next year :-( fancied doing OP in the warm for a change will get up there a bit later in the year with Anglesey double header hopefully.

[Harris_I]

Cunno said:

Harris_I said:

Cunno said:

If the worse happens Porsche will sell a replacement unit (exchange) with 2 year warranty for £15k (2012 price) which isn't to bad considering the true cost of these engines.

Are you sure about that? That would negate the need to do a full rebuild every 80-100 hours on the Cup engines. Several years ago I was quoted approx £40k for a replacement engine. (Although to be fair there was no mention of exchange, but the implication would be the old unit would be worth ballpark at least 25k in trade-in which sounds too much.)

Can’t comment on cup cars I’m talking GT3 road car which are used on track. Yes cup cars have recommended rebuilds ever 80-100 but road cars aren’t exposed to the same stresses even if used on track.
The £15k price was correct in 2012 because that’s what a replacement exchange engine cost me from Porsche. Exchange engines aren’t completely new they could have some serviceable parts such as casing etc, but do come with a 2 year warranty so I expect this is why there cheaper than a new engine bought out right.
It's now done 50k miles, striped it down 2 years ago rebuilt to 3.8 with some extras and goes very well. Minimal work needed when converted.

Starts to make sense now. Used but refreshed engine supplied in exchange for roughly the same cost as having one's original unit rebuilt. Also, thinking about it, the Cup teams rebuild their engines at cost and not "plus Porsche tax", so that probably explains why it's cheaper for them to rebuild and not exchange.

[Cunno]

Harris_I said:

Cunno said:

Harris_I said:

Cunno said:

If the worse happens Porsche will sell a replacement unit (exchange) with 2 year warranty for £15k (2012 price) which isn't to bad considering the true cost of these engines.

Are you sure about that? That would negate the need to do a full rebuild every 80-100 hours on the Cup engines. Several years ago I was quoted approx £40k for a replacement engine. (Although to be fair there was no mention of exchange, but the implication would be the old unit would be worth ballpark at least 25k in trade-in which sounds too much.)

Can’t comment on cup cars I’m talking GT3 road car which are used on track. Yes cup cars have recommended rebuilds ever 80-100 but road cars aren’t exposed to the same stresses even if used on track.
The £15k price was correct in 2012 because that’s what a replacement exchange engine cost me from Porsche. Exchange engines aren’t completely new they could have some serviceable parts such as casing etc, but do come with a 2 year warranty so I expect this is why there cheaper than a new engine bought out right.
It's now done 50k miles, striped it down 2 years ago rebuilt to 3.8 with some extras and goes very well. Minimal work needed when converted.

Starts to make sense now. Used but refreshed engine supplied in exchange for roughly the same cost as having one's original unit rebuilt. Also, thinking about it, the Cup teams rebuild their engines at cost and not "plus Porsche tax", so that probably explains why it's cheaper for them to rebuild and not exchange.

Not quite the case, an exchange engine comes with a 2 year warranty and is basically new but could have some serviceable parts such as casing fuel pump and other bolt on parts but internals new. Porsche would not warranty it other wise.

Cup engine and a road car GT3 are not the same they have subtle differences such as using Motor sport parts different inlet and exhaust values heads and more

[Harris_I]

OK thanks, I may be in danger of hijacking this thread so I will leave it there. I have raced both road (modded) GT3 and Cup, and the engines seemed v similar. If you can share details of how to get exchange units that would be much appreciated.

[RC1]

evodarren said:

RC1
It could be the 997.1 GT3 may not be for you.
If your that worried about depreciation, refresh costs on an 11 year old car, maybe go do something newer.
If you do convince yourself that a GT3 is for you I can say I’ve owned mine for 6 years. It had 9,000 miles when I got it. Now has nearly 38,000 . I’ve loved every minute. Always had OPC warranty and just renewed for another 2 years. It still feels as tight as when I got it, had mine front shocks rebuilt by Centre Gravity as one had a squeeky DU bush, other than that anything else covered by warranty.

im almost certain its the right car for me at the moment. just want to go in with my eyes open with a view to total cost of likely ownership regardless of outlay. both my other cars and bike are all over 10 years old and whilst they do cost to keep them in fine fettle, over the long run, its all been very reasonable.

my sorely missed 964 c4 was set up by chris at cg many moons ago when he had not yet reached the hero status he has now!

[BertBert]

Kettmark said:

How's your search going Bert?

After a major hiccup, possibly concluded. Watch this space

[Cunno]

Harris_I said:

OK thanks, I may be in danger of hijacking this thread so I will leave it there. I have raced both road (modded) GT3 and Cup, and the engines seemed v similar. If you can share details of how to get exchange units that would be much appreciated.

You probably know more than me about cup cars then, but isn’t the big difference in the engine that the cup cars don’t run variocam and therefore have a different inlet system cams, heads? This then means the ecu isn’t the same, so a road engine isn’t plug and play.

As for getting an exchange engine I just rang my opc parts guy and he ran through my options. In the end my Indy bought the unit (sports and Classics) from Cheshire opc and fitted it cost slightly more 15k v 14.7k, it was just easier logistics wise with the return engine. Give Mike a ring At S&C I’m sure he will know the details.

[Steve Rance]

To the OP. I think that is a reasonable price. Just get the car checked over by a good GT3 specialist and get them to include a leak down test on the engine. Don’t be put off by the mileage. These cars are very tough. Also don’t be put off by worries of big bills. Providing the car has had a decent life you will be fine. I would define decent life as one where the engine has been warmed up before high revving, oils changed regularly and generally driven with mechanical sympathy. Track work is not an issue if the car is well driven

The 996/7 GT3’s are more driver focused in that more is required by the driver to enable the extraction of their performance. Therefore it stands to reason that the driver will also have a bigger input in the overal mechanical condition when he or she comes to sell it on.

There are many higher mileage cars that have been driven very hard on track for much of their lives which i’d Be happy to drive and there are many with low mileages that have spent all of those time on the road that I would consider.

If you are not obsessed with resales and the car stacks up then why not? It’s a lot of car for the money. The halo CS versions are in reality no different to a comfort. The bucket seats and cages are handy if you are tracking the car but that’s it. The true character of the 997 GT3 is its engine/drive train and chassis and they are the same for both the clubbie and comfort.

My only caviet is that you think twice about a car with ceramics. They will bring almost nothing to the experience and If you are worried about big bills they could well be the chief culprit.

Without apprearing morbid, you are one day closer to dying tomorrow. This forum is full of people who are expert in valuing absolutely everything but the value of their own time.

Edited by Steve Rance on Monday 3rd December 10:33

[D.no]

Steve Rance said:

To the OP. I think that is a reasonable price. Just get the car checked over by a good GT3 specialist and get them to include a leak down test on the engine. Don’t be put off by the mileage. These cars are very tough. Also don’t be put off by worries of big bills. Providing the car has had a decent life you will be fine. I would define decent life as one where the engine has been warmed up before high revving, oils changed regularly and generally driven with mechanical sympathy. Track work is not an issue if the car is well driven

The 996/7 GT3’s are more driver focused in that more is required by the driver to enable the extraction of their performance. Therefore it stands to reason that the driver will also have a bigger input in the overal mechanical condition when he or she comes to sell it on.

There are many higher mileage cars that have been driven very hard on track for much of their lives which i’d Be happy to drive and there are many with low mileages that have spent all of those time on the road that I would consider.

If you are not obsessed with resales and the car stacks up then why not? It’s a lot of car for the money. The halo CS versions are in reality no different to a comfort. The bucket seats and cages are handy if you are tracking the car but that’s it. The true character of the 997 GT3 is its engine/drive train and chassis and they are the same for both the clubbie and comfort.

My only caviet is that you think twice about a car with ceramics. They will bring almost nothing to the experience and If you are worried about big bills they could well be the chief culprit.

Without apprearing morbid, you are one day closer to dying tomorrow. This forum is full of people who are expert in valuing absolutely everything but the value of their own time.

Edited by Steve Rance on Monday 3rd December 10:33

+ The car in question has already been converted to iron's by the look of it.

[RC1]

Steve Rance said:

To the OP. I think that is a reasonable price. Just get the car checked over by a good GT3 specialist and get them to include a leak down test on the engine. Don’t be put off by the mileage. These cars are very tough. Also don’t be put off by worries of big bills. Providing the car has had a decent life you will be fine. I would define decent life as one where the engine has been warmed up before high revving, oils changed regularly and generally driven with mechanical sympathy. Track work is not an issue if the car is well driven

The 996/7 GT3’s are more driver focused in that more is required by the driver to enable the extraction of their performance. Therefore it stands to reason that the driver will also have a bigger input in the overal mechanical condition when he or she comes to sell it on.

There are many higher mileage cars that have been driven very hard on track for much of their lives which i’d Be happy to drive and there are many with low mileages that have spent all of those time on the road that I would consider.

If you are not obsessed with resales and the car stacks up then why not? It’s a lot of car for the money. The halo CS versions are in reality no different to a comfort. The bucket seats and cages are handy if you are tracking the car but that’s it. The true character of the 997 GT3 is its engine/drive train and chassis and they are the same for both the clubbie and comfort.

My only caviet is that you think twice about a car with ceramics. They will bring almost nothing to the experience and If you are worried about big bills they could well be the chief culprit.

Without apprearing morbid, you are one day closer to dying tomorrow. This forum is full of people who are expert in valuing absolutely everything but the value of their own time.

Edited by Steve Rance on Monday 3rd December 10:33

Great points really well made Steve thanks

[54Kab]

- that was the only response needed. Well said Steve.

I purchased a 997.1 GT3 in Feb 2017, pretty much top of the market, but it was a car I've lusted after since they were new. The reality for me (and probably most owners) is that TIME is the deciding factor of usage. I certainly don't worry about depreciation, it is a car after all.

Just buy one. And use it when you can. Life is indeed short.

[D.no]

54Kab said:

- that was the only response needed. Well said Steve.

I purchased a 997.1 GT3 in Feb 2017, pretty much top of the market, but it was a car I've lusted after since they were new. The reality for me (and probably most owners) is that TIME is the deciding factor of usage. I certainly don't worry about depreciation, it is a car after all.

Just buy one. And use it when you can. Life is indeed short.

Huzzah!

Spot on.

Pick mine up on Saturday....

[RC1]

Cunno said:

Matt at Fearnsport is my Indy and would recommend.

and the chap that takes care of my 2 wheeled toy is literally around the corner so happy days

do fearnsport work with more GT cars? its the impression i get but more based on hearsay rather than fact

[Cunno]

RC1 said:

Cunno said:

Matt at Fearnsport is my Indy and would recommend.

and the chap that takes care of my 2 wheeled toy is literally around the corner so happy days

do fearnsport work with more GT cars? its the impression i get but more based on hearsay rather than fact

Rumour has it that someone once rang up FS to book a services for a C2 the response was they didn't work on Citrons. Joking aside yes, you just need to look at the cars parked up in the bays out side to realise what there about.

[RC1]

D.no said:

Huzzah!

Spot on.

Pick mine up on Saturday....

Spill beans!

[Kettmark]

Have you any more thoughts on this car OP?

[RC1]

Waiting for you to view it first!

[Kettmark]

RC1 said:

Waiting for you to view it first!

Shall we go halves!

[BertBert]

The one I have a deposit on is going to Matt on Wednesday for a full ppi and leakdown test.

Let's hope it fares well. I think it will!

Bert