Brexit...GT cars....Don't Worry
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Interestingly enough, we are doing very well with referenda in Switzerland. It's the old adage that citizens are too stupid to deal with complex issues. How often did so called experts get it wrong but they don't suffer any consequences? I am personally skeptical of experts with no skin in the game - the ones Nassim Taleb calls "intellectuals yet idiots".
Dr S said:
Interestingly enough, we are doing very well with referenda in Switzerland. It's the old adage that citizens are too stupid to deal with complex issues.
How often did so called experts get it wrong but they don't suffer any consequences? I am personally skeptical of experts with no skin in the game - the ones Nassim Taleb calls "intellectuals yet idiots".
Switzerland is much more different than U.K. as it has cantons. With your logic, London should stay in EU than it mostly voted remain. Same as Geneve might have different governings than Basel (not to mention Language differences)How often did so called experts get it wrong but they don't suffer any consequences? I am personally skeptical of experts with no skin in the game - the ones Nassim Taleb calls "intellectuals yet idiots".
Taleb also says, the best system in Europe in Switzerland with nearly no central power, it has massive roots and did not happen in one day.
Dr S said:
Whenever we thought we had finally gone beyond long threads on values and contrast stitching comes one on Brexit to show that things on a motoring forum can indeed get even worse
So what are the opinions on having "Brexit" stitched into the headrests of your 2019 delivery car then? Just checking whether it might affect resale.Digga said:
So what are the opinions on having "Brexit" stitched into the headrests of your 2019 delivery car then? Just checking whether it might affect resale.
Best post on this stupid non-car related thread..I'm thinking of having 'Brexit' tattooed on my forehead as a reminder of whatever..!Taffy66 said:
Digga said:
So what are the opinions on having "Brexit" stitched into the headrests of your 2019 delivery car then? Just checking whether it might affect resale.
Best post on this stupid non-car related thread..I'm thinking of having 'Brexit' tattooed on my forehead as a reminder of whatever..!..whether or not to have all the letters in capitals.
ooid said:
In the meantime, have a look at this, all these people are major innovators and "savvvy business people" as you mention, but they are totally against it since the beginning;
https://www.dezeen.com/2018/10/30/no-good-brexit-f...
It is bad for architecture, which is bad for property, land and all other construction industries that comes along....
not a shock, that area want to stay in the EU, they want 5 million more people in ! so they can build yet more houses !https://www.dezeen.com/2018/10/30/no-good-brexit-f...
It is bad for architecture, which is bad for property, land and all other construction industries that comes along....
This is my first and hopefully only post on Brexit on this forum.
Leave was broadly defined as taking back control of Laws, Money and Borders.
When you take that premise to its logical conclusion..surely that rules out quite a few of the variants of 'Leave'.
So Norway would be ruled out. and any customs union that requires free movement of people would be ruled out. As neither of this options gives total autonomy of Laws, Money and Borders.
The process has been frustrated by people that want to maintain the existing relationship... status quo.
The status quo is what many Leavers voted against. For them voting to remain would have been to accept the onward march to ever closer union... unchallenged and unchecked. The economic argument is powerful, but for many people money doesn't buy everything... and on all side we are broadly speculating... absent the crystal ball.
I do agree that the road to this moment probably started with Ed Miliband's becoming leader of the Labour Party. Since this point Labour has been become unelectable, offering no viable opposition, alternative or challenge to the the Tory proposition.
It was then perpetuated by the fact that David Cameron had such little success in trying to achieve any reform in the UK relationship with the EU, i.e immigration breaks/brakes - with the EU basically ignoring him, as he had no leverage at the time... therefore the only way to get movement was to demonstrate to Brussels that the UK would be prepared to walk away... the miscalculation... was that people of the UK actually voted to walk away.
Its a tough situation... I would like to see reform with the relationship... EU control needs to be more devolved from Brussels which is largely unaccountable, have close ties but with immigration breaks/brakes/limitations for settlement and UK state benefits - i.e. Australia or US style, and i'm speaking as descendant of people that came to the UK from the West Indies.
The issue with the EU construct is that it is too big and to heterogeneous to be able to work as a whole. If they didn't attempt to grab so much power and control...this wouldn't be an issue.... do we want to see a United States of Europe?
Leave was broadly defined as taking back control of Laws, Money and Borders.
When you take that premise to its logical conclusion..surely that rules out quite a few of the variants of 'Leave'.
So Norway would be ruled out. and any customs union that requires free movement of people would be ruled out. As neither of this options gives total autonomy of Laws, Money and Borders.
The process has been frustrated by people that want to maintain the existing relationship... status quo.
The status quo is what many Leavers voted against. For them voting to remain would have been to accept the onward march to ever closer union... unchallenged and unchecked. The economic argument is powerful, but for many people money doesn't buy everything... and on all side we are broadly speculating... absent the crystal ball.
I do agree that the road to this moment probably started with Ed Miliband's becoming leader of the Labour Party. Since this point Labour has been become unelectable, offering no viable opposition, alternative or challenge to the the Tory proposition.
It was then perpetuated by the fact that David Cameron had such little success in trying to achieve any reform in the UK relationship with the EU, i.e immigration breaks/brakes - with the EU basically ignoring him, as he had no leverage at the time... therefore the only way to get movement was to demonstrate to Brussels that the UK would be prepared to walk away... the miscalculation... was that people of the UK actually voted to walk away.
Its a tough situation... I would like to see reform with the relationship... EU control needs to be more devolved from Brussels which is largely unaccountable, have close ties but with immigration breaks/brakes/limitations for settlement and UK state benefits - i.e. Australia or US style, and i'm speaking as descendant of people that came to the UK from the West Indies.
The issue with the EU construct is that it is too big and to heterogeneous to be able to work as a whole. If they didn't attempt to grab so much power and control...this wouldn't be an issue.... do we want to see a United States of Europe?
Edited by TDT on Monday 21st January 11:49
Dr S said:
You have to love the Norwegians for this. And I am pretty sure that neither the driver nor the guy on skis is worrying about contrast stitching and the car's value...
He has removed the front splitter though. Non standard modification probably means he has destroyed the value of the car. 
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's the irony, when it suits the argument you will hear that no lesser god than the great Dyson thinks we will all be fine and somehow that's a reasonable supposition. It's clear that reason and constructive debate got lost some time ago (on both sides tbf) and we are left nodding at people who think that a vacuum cleaner salesman is the last word in geopolitics. I like your point about experts, it's a great example of the manipulation that was at the core of the leave campaign, 'don't listen to experts' an incredible platform to launch a campaign and even more incredible that people listened and accepted the point. What a mess, but of course it won't be if we just walk away, coz this clever bloke what makes vacuums reckons we'll be fine.
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
Don't rule out Norway. They know how to enjoy their GT cars.
You have to love the Norwegians for this. And I am pretty sure that neither the driver nor the guy on skis is worrying about contrast stitching and the car's value...I'm just rejoicing that there are other contributors on here that aren't taking this ridiculously comedic thread quite so seriously (and having to have the last word) as some currently seem to feel the need to ....
And if we're doing 996 GT3 on snow/slush/ice, let's go with a classic :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxdu60lW-_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj8OEkkHfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ru5dXzeus
And MD doing his "Last of the late brakers" showpiece :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-_QglLJeA
and again :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iK80nmI8lY
As you were.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Economic forecasting relies on assumptions about how people and markets react, it's not an exact science and on that basis predictions can often be wide of the mark. That said, I can't think of a single moment in our economic history over the last 50 years when so many revered and respected economic commentators and institutions agreed on one common prediction, namely that leaving will damage our economy and result in a fall of GDP of up to 8%. It is tragic that large sections of the electorate would still prefer to ignore this advice and instead look to cherry pick soundbites from entrepreneurs to make a counterpoint. Shortly after the referendum I heard Nigel Farage admit that we would be worse off, but we will be happier. Only one half of that statement is factual, the other is opinion and it's the opinion of a man who will not be affected one jot by a severe downturn.
Slippydiff said:
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
Don't rule out Norway. They know how to enjoy their GT cars.
You have to love the Norwegians for this. And I am pretty sure that neither the driver nor the guy on skis is worrying about contrast stitching and the car's value...I'm just rejoicing that there are other contributors on here that aren't taking this ridiculously comedic thread quite so seriously (and having to have the last word) as some currently seem to feel the need to ....
And if we're doing 996 GT3 on snow/slush/ice, let's go with a classic :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxdu60lW-_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj8OEkkHfA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ru5dXzeus
And MD doing his "Last of the late brakers" showpiece :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-_QglLJeA
and again :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iK80nmI8lY
As you were.
It would seem that ‘it’s the economy, stupid’ is somewhat outdated or certainly has been actively ignored by people that voted brexit.
People don’t want to be poorer, but the result of the referendum was for some kind of change and was not for just accepting the status quo.
And this is mood across the globe, as we have seen in election results around the world.
Basing an argument solely on the economic aspect is no longer sufficient, as maybe people feel they are rich/wealthy enough and can sustain a downturn - as has been posted before.
So then for many its about more than just brexit.… there is an underlying current that the march to an increasingly more ‘progressive & liberal’ agenda isn’t to the taste of everyone… and that if this is the future mode of operation.… it won’t be without a fight.
Not enough of a discussion has been had about the post exit relationship.… but I guess we probably won’t get to that point anyway, once ‘democracy’ and Parliament acting on behalf of the ‘plebeians’ has prevailed. Lol.
I’ll have lived and worked in Europe for extended periods of the last 5years, Berlin, Munich and Zurich. Remaining would be fine by me, but under the terms of a properly renegotiate relationship.
All in my opinion.
People don’t want to be poorer, but the result of the referendum was for some kind of change and was not for just accepting the status quo.
And this is mood across the globe, as we have seen in election results around the world.
Basing an argument solely on the economic aspect is no longer sufficient, as maybe people feel they are rich/wealthy enough and can sustain a downturn - as has been posted before.
So then for many its about more than just brexit.… there is an underlying current that the march to an increasingly more ‘progressive & liberal’ agenda isn’t to the taste of everyone… and that if this is the future mode of operation.… it won’t be without a fight.
Not enough of a discussion has been had about the post exit relationship.… but I guess we probably won’t get to that point anyway, once ‘democracy’ and Parliament acting on behalf of the ‘plebeians’ has prevailed. Lol.
I’ll have lived and worked in Europe for extended periods of the last 5years, Berlin, Munich and Zurich. Remaining would be fine by me, but under the terms of a properly renegotiate relationship.
All in my opinion.
Edited by TDT on Monday 21st January 16:57
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The manifesto of the winning party at the subsequent general elections outlined the intended future relationship… that they would deliver a Brexit where the UK would no longer be part of the single market or a customs union. So people had yet another opportunity to reject this type of brexit at the GE.
I’m not saying this is right or wrong… it’s just what is written.
What we have now in Parliament is pure politics.… a large part of it is not even about brexit anymore… it’s about making the PM fail in reliving her manifesto and people positioning themselves for the next cycle.
I mean… she has painted herself into a corner with he red lines and has made a hash of the negotiations with her Bull-headed tactics, so difficult to feel sorry for her. But we do need a solution now.
I’ve already given my view on what i’d personally like to see. Whether or not it can be achieved is another matter.
Dr S said:
alfapork said:
Don't rule out Norway. They know how to enjoy their GT cars.
You have to love the Norwegians for this. And I am pretty sure that neither the driver nor the guy on skis is worrying about contrast stitching and the car's value...
[quote=Blue62]
That's the irony, when it suits the argument you will hear that no lesser god than the great Dyson thinks we will all be fine and somehow that's a reasonable supposition........
And now the great Dyson himself moving his company HQ to Singapore.... awesome vote of confidence in the long term attractiveness of the UK!
That's the irony, when it suits the argument you will hear that no lesser god than the great Dyson thinks we will all be fine and somehow that's a reasonable supposition........
And now the great Dyson himself moving his company HQ to Singapore.... awesome vote of confidence in the long term attractiveness of the UK!
Porsche911R said:
not a shock, that area want to stay in the EU, they want 5 million more people in ! so they can build yet more houses !
You are wrong. None of these people (massive architectural firms) earn from housing. Actually very tiny amount of work comes even from U.K. buildings.Their point is firstly, to gain more european contracts and hire/collaborate with people from all over EU. Now before you say "cheap labour" architecture fees not high but well protected and transparent in the profession.
If you ever drive on Millau Viaduct, remember it was designed by a British firm with a global team of experts... Same as Madrid Airport, Beijing, Honkong and etc...
You can not build these things easily without a multi cultural global team. (Remember Concorde?).
Dyson has a personal Vendetta against EU and his comments on the topic quite wrong, personal and hypocrite (considering his authoritarian-asian love)
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