997/996 GT3 dynamics

[hunter 66]

Long story there Slippy ... good one though . Yes we all drilled the air filter box to improve the induction noise and with a Cup Pipe it was a noisy old drive . I drove mine to the South of Spain for a Jerez track day and it had no radio , the drone was mind numbing after a few hours . But great roads through Spain especially the North .

[MDL111]

it does look amazing, doesn't it …. for once I will not call them up and buy it sight unseen - I will actually get a car checked over and buy the best one I can find. Or so I hope ….

Edit: and great post Slippy - finally an exciting thread again (even if I am derailing it slightly)

[Slippydiff]

MDL111 said:

it does look amazing, doesn't it …. for once I will not call them up and buy it sight unseen - I will actually get a car checked over and buy the best one I can find. Or so I hope ….

Edit: and great post Slippy - finally an exciting thread again (even if I am derailing it slightly)

It's a stunning looking piece of kit You're located in the Fatherland as I understand it, if you need someone to inspect it, PM me

And thank you for both yours (and Peter F's) kind words.

[lemmingjames]

Just going off track a moment but has anyone else noticed that at circa 10mph, 2nd gear, if you lift your foot of the accelerator, the car maintains its speed without slowing down/stalling?!?

[BrotherMouzone]

Slippydiff said:

Stunning. Is that midnight blue, ocean blue or something else? Whatever happened to the car and is it still alive and well? (Edit to add, according to MOT history, it seems the car is indeed alive! Just 30k miles but barely turned a wheel since 2013; must be in someone’s collection then)

Cool story but sad to hear about the 22B.

Edited by BrotherMouzone on Wednesday 30th January 18:40

[hunter 66]

Mine was Midnight Blue as well ... will dig some pics out

[gtsralph]

A good number of 996 Cup on racecarsdirect.com (UK and Continental Europe)

[Slippydiff]

BrotherMouzone said:

Stunning. Is that midnight blue, ocean blue or something else? Whatever happened to the car and is it still alive and well? (Edit to add, according to MOT history, it seems the car is indeed alive! Just 30k miles but barely turned a wheel since 2013; must be in someone’s collection then)

Cool story but sad to hear about the 22B

The old girl was Midnight, I went on to own a Guards, then Rubystone, then a Ferrari Giallo Fly example.
The Midnight car went to the Isle of Man. 9M saw it a year after I’d sold it apparently. I’m not sure where it resides now.
That mileage doesn’t sound quite right. I have the original advert from when I bought the car, I’ll have to check it. The only caveat is the car had had a MPH speedometer fitted by a UK OPC (which was invoiced and properly documented) and the KPH speedometer was with the car to validate the swap, so possibly I’m getting confused by the mileage on the car’s current speedometer.
Either way, it was a hard used example, but it was the sweetest handling 964 RS I’be driven, and quicker than its 285hp would suggest.

[braddo]

lemmingjames said:

Just going off track a moment but has anyone else noticed that at circa 10mph, 2nd gear, if you lift your foot of the accelerator, the car maintains its speed without slowing down/stalling?!?

Is that around idle speed? The e-throttle cars have a bit of anti-stall which will add a little throttle if the ECU thinks the car will stall. I notice it kick in when when I've pressed the throttle too little when taking off gently.

Which leads to my main little gripe with my 997.1, which is that I wish it simply had a perfectly linear throttle pedal action like a cable-throttle car. There's a little dead zone at the beginning of travel which does nothing or is slow to react; it's as if the ECU is deciding whether you have pressed the throttle accidentally and whether you deserve a bit of throttle.

After years of having cars with instant throttle response (e.g. 1cm of travel is plenty to move from rest; a literal stab of the throttle with a heel is enough for consistent H&T) it surprises me to realise I am still having to think about how I use the throttle in the GT3 after, oh, nearly 5 years and 20,000 miles.

[braddo]

Slippydiff said:

... (and a lone Escort Cosworth)



...

I hate to be a pedant but I think there are 2 Cossies in that photo (3rd and 4th cars past yours).

That must have been crushing about the 22B when it happened. Still, the 964RS outcome was a good one.

[Slippydiff]

braddo said:

I hate to be a pedant but I think there are 2 Cossies in that photo (3rd and 4th cars past yours).

That must have been crushing about the 22B when it happened. Still, the 964RS outcome was a good one.

You are of course correct, there are two Cossies in the picture I posted. In my defence, it was back in 2001-2002, and the text was written before I dug our and scanned the photos, so hopefully I’m forgiven

I think I may have hurt myself in the 22B, so it was probably just as well some low life removed that temptation from me ...
It was at the time when Impreza were being stolen for bank jobs or broken for parts. Cars were being carjacked at knife, gun and shotgun point, and owners terrorised in their houses in the early hours as gangs broke into the owners houses to get the keys to enable them to bypass the numerous immobilisers required to insur the damn things.

I’d been reading 911 &Porsche World for the thick end of ten years by 2001, and I remembered an article about a chap who owned a Midnight Blue 964 RS and a heavily modified 930 Turbo racecar and also flew Spitfires and Hurricanes.
I liked the stealthy look of the RS and figured it would fly under the radar and avoid any of the “nonsense” afflicting the Imprezas. It was the best decision I made (though it’s not been a cheap addiction) !!

[Yellow491]

Porsche911R said:

Yellow491 said:

The rs day starts thurs eve at the fishpool inn;) i still get excited arriving at oulton for the rs day to see old friends,great cars and good driving from all the guys that have supported us the rs day for many years.
We are already thinking of what to do for the 20th rs day 2020,may be a two day event, bbq some where or large dinner on the sat eve,perhaps get the rally course as well and get a few cars out oversteering there way around.

move it a bit later in the year and it would be great.

I also go but tend not to book on, as the weather 7 times out of 10 is rank, come 3pm about 3 cars on track as most have gone home with blue fingers.
most pop area is the dinner hall ;-)

2 day events and BBQ are great if done in May ;-)

I used to like the Porsche Donny day, but it got canned sadly.

RS day seems more about meeting up, but it's too cold and people soon move on.

R do you seriously have a problem,you have to post your negative opinions all the time,i think you have a addiction and need help.
7 out of 10 infact 8 out 10 are good weather,a bit cool but 95% are happy with the day thats why it sells out so quick and a big following in the paddock.
May be the track is to cold and slippery for you to cope with varying conditions.

[Digga]

hunter 66 said:

Mine was Midnight Blue as well ... will dig some pics out

First one I ever saw was in the pits at Silverston. I was there to watch the TVR Tuscan Challenge (1991?) and this thing arrived and parked up next to the TVR pit. It was immediately obvious how 2non-standard" the car was from the stance and the engine note, although obviously a layman would just see a Porsche. Mate and I went over to have a look, suitably impressed with it. It takes something pretty special to sound interesting alongside 4.5 litre V8s fed by down-draught carbs!

[hunter 66]

I was racing F3 in those days in a Dallara ....so was at tracks a fair bit

[Digga]

May well have been then.

[trap125]

MDL111 said:

is a late car much better than an early car - I found a write up by somebody that listed quite a few changes throughout the years (i.a. cable shifter, changes to the wing and nose, 6 piston calipers, shorter gearing 4-6 …)

early car example (prettier imo) - engine and tran 0 hours, new wheel bearings, new brakes - €52k spent on revision
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

or late car - rebuilt to 3.8 in 2013 plus trans rebuilt, since then supposedly c 2,200km, only 3 races in its early life, rest TDs, new suspension in 2017
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

Obviously will have a specialist check the car prior to purchase whichever I decide to go for. Also any thoughts on pricing of Cup cars, are they selling or are people a little optimistic with their asking prices. I am not 100% sure, but think these cars have been for sale for a while (the older one at least since mid last year). There is one road registered Cup for sale (now for c. 90k) that was for sale for ages in the low and high 60s - I think it must have been on the market at least for the last 1.5 years or so....

any input appreciated

I was thinking along these lines too somewhere down the line. However, what sort of limit is on the running hours for the engine and transmission? I would think an engine rebuild would be very, very expensive. Does anybody have an idea of cost? Is it something that must be done every so often unlike a road car?

[isaldiri]

IIRC, I was told the Cup engine ECU maps to running at track speeds and doesn't like being used at road rpms at all, especially say being stuck in traffic. Have to admit I personally wouldn't try to convert a Cup to road use but rather get a 996 gt3 and strip it out to try to match the Cup if I were going to try to go down that route.

[MDL111]

trap125 said:

MDL111 said:

is a late car much better than an early car - I found a write up by somebody that listed quite a few changes throughout the years (i.a. cable shifter, changes to the wing and nose, 6 piston calipers, shorter gearing 4-6 …)

early car example (prettier imo) - engine and tran 0 hours, new wheel bearings, new brakes - €52k spent on revision
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

or late car - rebuilt to 3.8 in 2013 plus trans rebuilt, since then supposedly c 2,200km, only 3 races in its early life, rest TDs, new suspension in 2017
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

Obviously will have a specialist check the car prior to purchase whichever I decide to go for. Also any thoughts on pricing of Cup cars, are they selling or are people a little optimistic with their asking prices. I am not 100% sure, but think these cars have been for sale for a while (the older one at least since mid last year). There is one road registered Cup for sale (now for c. 90k) that was for sale for ages in the low and high 60s - I think it must have been on the market at least for the last 1.5 years or so....

any input appreciated

I was thinking along these lines too somewhere down the line. However, what sort of limit is on the running hours for the engine and transmission? I would think an engine rebuild would be very, very expensive. Does anybody have an idea of cost? Is it something that must be done every so often unlike a road car?

no clue on hours. was told
c 25-30k for a comprehensive engine rebuild and
c. 2-3k for work hours on the transmission, including parts anything from 3k to 15k depending on what needs to be replaced

the above car mentions €52k spent, but I don't have the invoice breakdown yet - will give details once/if they send it to me

[LaSource]

isaldiri said:

IIRC, I was told the Cup engine ECU maps to running at track speeds and doesn't like being used at road rpms at all, especially say being stuck in traffic. Have to admit I personally wouldn't try to convert a Cup to road use but rather get a 996 gt3 and strip it out to try to match the Cup if I were going to try to go down that route.

Don't think you will need to do much to a 996 GT3 apart from basic weight reduction....unless you go mad on it.

[trap125]

MDL111 said:

no clue on hours. was told
c 25-30k for a comprehensive engine rebuild and
c. 2-3k for work hours on the transmission, including parts anything from 3k to 15k depending on what needs to be replaced

the above car mentions €52k spent, but I don't have the invoice breakdown yet - will give details once/if they send it to me

Wow 25 - 30k for a rebuild is a very serious expense. And then if you throw in some work to the transmission...

I thought the 997 needed a rebuild after 50hrs max but have no idea about the 996...