997/996 GT3 dynamics

[nxi20]

Porsche911R said:

but not the whole story, to quote:

"I should also mention that those cracks only developed after several years of use with slicks"

wheels are fine imo and the cheapest good quality wheels on the market.

bit like saying all GT4 top struts will break ! a Bit of forum scare stories most of the time.

I don't agree with any Slick run cars on track days, they ruin the day for every one and also the cars cannot cope on slicks without mods.

I was merely pointing out to people who were praising the OZs that it's not all upside - posting picture evidence isn't a "story", it's fact. I know you're easily confused about the difference between opinion & fact so I thought it worth pointing that out for you.. The fact that I went out & bought another set when I chucked the cracked ones away shows I don't have a problem with the OZ, they are very good value for money. I tend to break stuff faster than most due to the number of trackdays / miles my GT3 has done; I didn't post a "scare story", merely a report of what happens to the wheel over time. Slicks just made it happen faster. Smashing over potholes will also do damage but you do need to look at the wheels periodically before they fail catastrophically.

As to your fatuous comment about running slicks on trackdays - they ruin the day for everyone? Really? Or maybe it's just you? Strange that I've never even had someone approach me to say that (or anything else detrimental about my driving standards come to that) in the 100+ days I've done on slicks & I can't for the life of me see how what I chose to run can possibly affect anyone else on track provided the rules are observed.

[LaSource]

nxi20 said:

As to your fatuous comment about running slicks on trackdays - they ruin the day for everyone? Really? Or maybe it's just you? Strange that I've never even had someone approach me to say that (or anything else detrimental about my driving standards come to that) in the 100+ days I've done on slicks & I can't for the life of me see how what I chose to run can possibly affect anyone else on track provided the rules are observed.

Well, to be fair, you may ruin the day for other 996GT3s on road tyres when they realise they can't keep up

My mission this year is to take the 6GT3 out on slicks...possibly at Portimao (in plan) or Silverstone (any dry day once I've sorted out a support car and driver!)

[Digga]

LaSource said:

My mission this year is to take the 6GT3 out on slicks...possibly at Portimao (in plan) or Silverstone (any dry day once I've sorted out a support car and driver!)

Have you tried it on the Pirelli Trofeo R yet?

[LaSource]

Digga said:

ave you tried it on the Pirelli Trofeo R yet?

No I haven't. I've been quite happy with Cup 2s as they are a known quantity and I feel I know how to settle them down. Plus should it get wet they have plenty of tread for that too (as long as not terribly worn).

Figured full blown slicks would be more fun than Trofeos. My car is running a stiffer suspension and relatively aggressive geo (albeit still for road tyres) so my thinking is it should bear up well to some light slick use

[Steve Rance]

LaSource said:

No I haven't. I've been quite happy with Cup 2s as they are a known quantity and I feel I know how to settle them down. Plus should it get wet they have plenty of tread for that too (as long as not terribly worn).

Figured full blown slicks would be more fun than Trofeos. My car is running a stiffer suspension and relatively aggressive geo (albeit still for road tyres) so my thinking is it should bear up well to some light slick use

Slicks are great when they are in the sweet spot but they go off quickly and performance can drop below that of a road legal track tyre reasonably quickly

[Digga]

LaSource said:

Digga said:

ave you tried it on the Pirelli Trofeo R yet?

No I haven't. I've been quite happy with Cup 2s as they are a known quantity and I feel I know how to settle them down. Plus should it get wet they have plenty of tread for that too (as long as not terribly worn).

Figured full blown slicks would be more fun than Trofeos. My car is running a stiffer suspension and relatively aggressive geo (albeit still for road tyres) so my thinking is it should bear up well to some light slick use

I only ask because at the Outlon RS day a few years back, I was pax in Mike from Sports & Classic's 996.2 GT3 CS. He'd not been able to get CUp2's so had gone to Trofeo R's by default. He was impressed with them. They certainly produce a lot of grip! IIRC the 'word' on them was they were better on track, but did tend to go off a bit quicker, although someone else here might correct me.

[LaSource]

Steve Rance said:

Slicks are great when they are in the sweet spot but they go off quickly and performance can drop below that of a road legal track tyre reasonably quickly

Yes I am aware slicks have a particular sweet spot when new. However 6GT3 trackers who use slicks tell me that used slicks are still quicker than road tyres. I do not have personal experience on the 6GT3 to counter otherwise - but I also note your point above. It would not be very exciting if the drop off is too fast - any suggestions what this timeframe might be in whatever metric?

I have used slicks on a KTM X-Bow a few times last year which were fairly old and they were really cool - both in terms of pace but also in terms of the surety of how the car brakes and handles which gives the driver a lot more confidence...so just wondering if the same experience will be replicated with the heavier GT3.

Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 13th February 14:15

[LaSource]

Digga said:

I only ask because at the Outlon RS day a few years back, I was pax in Mike from Sports & Classic's 996.2 GT3 CS. He'd not been able to get CUp2's so had gone to Trofeo R's by default. He was impressed with them. They certainly produce a lot of grip! IIRC the 'word' on them was they were better on track, but did tend to go off a bit quicker, although someone else here might correct me.

Yeah I've also heard the TrofeoRs are quicker in the dry but wear faster, not great for wet, and used to be dearer to buy (but not sure if that is still true)

[Digga]

LaSource said:

Yeah I've also heard the TrofeoRs are quicker in the dry but wear faster, not great for wet, and used to be dearer to buy (but not sure if that is still true)

No, just looking the the tread design (which I admit can be deceptive) they don't look likely to work as 'well' (relative term) as Cup 2's in the wet.

[isaldiri]

Digga said:

I only ask because at the Outlon RS day a few years back, I was pax in Mike from Sports & Classic's 996.2 GT3 CS. He'd not been able to get CUp2's so had gone to Trofeo R's by default. He was impressed with them. They certainly produce a lot of grip! IIRC the 'word' on them was they were better on track, but did tend to go off a bit quicker, although someone else here might correct me.

I'm not sure trofeos go off faster. A good friend has used them a lot, he reckons they are a lot more heat stable than a Cup2 so they don't go off on a very warm trackday but by the 2nd trackday the difference in pace is largely eroded and by the third the Cup2 is faster (assuming you haven't already worn down the trofeos to the canvas )

[Digga]

isaldiri said:

Digga said:

I only ask because at the Outlon RS day a few years back, I was pax in Mike from Sports & Classic's 996.2 GT3 CS. He'd not been able to get CUp2's so had gone to Trofeo R's by default. He was impressed with them. They certainly produce a lot of grip! IIRC the 'word' on them was they were better on track, but did tend to go off a bit quicker, although someone else here might correct me.

I'm not sure trofeos go off faster. A good friend has used them a lot, he reckons they are a lot more heat stable than a Cup2 so they don't go off on a very warm trackday but by the 2nd trackday the difference in pace is largely eroded and by the third the Cup2 is faster (assuming you haven't already worn down the trofeos to the canvas )

Thanks for the correction! I knew someone would know better and it's useful info, just in case I'm ever stuck for Cup 2's too.

[Cheburator mk2]

LaSource said:

Yes I am aware slicks have a particular sweet spot when new. However 6GT3 trackers who use slicks tell me that used slicks are still quicker than road tyres. I do not have personal experience on the 6GT3 to counter otherwise - but I also note your point above. It would not be very exciting if the drop off is too fast - any suggestions what this timeframe might be in whatever metric?

I have used slicks on a KTM X-Bow a few times last year which were fairly old and they were really cool - both in terms of pace but also in terms of the surety of how the car brakes and handles which gives the driver a lot more confidence...so just wondering if the same experience will be replicated with the heavier GT3.

Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 13th February 14:15

I used to drive my brother’s E46 M3 on slicks. Used quali BTCC slicks were something crazy like £25 per tyre. While they weren’t great for Matt Neal & Co they were perfect for us mere mortals. The M3 was close to 600bhp, around 1370kg with a full cage and properly race prepped. We used to “race” with a mate, who runs perhaps the 2nd most sorted 997.1 GT3RS in the World courtesy of Schutz Motorsport. We both noticed that slicks would give us 5 to 7 sec per lap on a 1min30 lap on a very technical circuit vs Pilot Cups. Just as you said, the slicks added extra predictability and “smoothness” to the cars. My biggest problem would be flat spotting them as the M3 didn’t have ABS and I tended to be very Fred Flinstone like in the application of the brake pedal. My 996.1 GT3 has the Cup ABS pump, btw... My mate’s GT3 would use 2 sets of slicks over a weeekend if track driving. If you have the chance - go for it. You wouldn’t believe how good a we’ll sorted 996/7 GT3 is on slicks... Just like an E46 M3 in fact

[LaSource]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I used to drive my brother’s E46 M3 on slicks. Used quali BTCC slicks were something crazy like £25 per tyre. While they weren’t great for Matt Neal & Co they were perfect for us mere mortals. The M3 was close to 600bhp, around 1370kg with a full cage and properly race prepped. We used to “race” with a mate, who runs perhaps the 2nd most sorted 997.1 GT3RS in the World courtesy of Schutz Motorsport. We both noticed that slicks would give us 5 to 7 sec per lap on a 1min30 lap on a very technical circuit vs Pilot Cups. Just as you said, the slicks added extra predictability and “smoothness” to the cars. My biggest problem would be flat spotting them as the M3 didn’t have ABS and I tended to be very Fred Flinstone like in the application of the brake pedal. My 996.1 GT3 has the Cup ABS pump, btw... My mate’s GT3 would use 2 sets of slicks over a weeekend if track driving. If you have the chance - go for it. You wouldn’t believe how good a we’ll sorted 996/7 GT3 is on slicks... Just like an E46 M3 in fact

Thanks for that - very useful.

Do you really mean 1 set a day just for a track day? Seems very high wear. Or is this dependent on compound?

[porschegeoff]

Have fond memories of my SY 996.1 GT3CS K400 which is now owned by another poster on here (Dan911).

I bought her almost exactly 15 years ago on a very mild sunny late winters day much like today and had 12.5 years of immense driving pleasure. The best car I've owned or driven by some margin.

Back in 2004/05, there was an online GT3 enthusiasts group called GT3 Titanic and remember fondly several track days that the group organized at Bedford Autodrome & Goodwood (I think Steve Rance will remember this).

Happy days and hopefully some day in the not too distant future I will get back behind the wheel of a 996 or 997 GT3.

[Cheburator mk2]

LaSource said:

Thanks for that - very useful.

Do you really mean 1 set a day just for a track day? Seems very high wear. Or is this dependent on compound?

A bit of both - we used medium compound and also my mate is an absolute animal behind the wheel. He would drive that RS as if he was paid by Schutz and also he would stay out for crazy amounts of time - that’s what EUR12k worth of MovIT CCBs do for you. His track mileage per weekend - two full days of driving - would be insane by normal UK standards. No sitting around or taking pics or chatting. Just to give you an idea - the last one I did - our M3 and a friends E30 M3 with a S54 - we split close to 900ltrs of fuel between us...

[JulierPass]

LaSource said:

nxi20 said:

As to your fatuous comment about running slicks on trackdays - they ruin the day for everyone? Really? Or maybe it's just you? Strange that I've never even had someone approach me to say that (or anything else detrimental about my driving standards come to that) in the 100+ days I've done on slicks & I can't for the life of me see how what I chose to run can possibly affect anyone else on track provided the rules are observed.

Well, to be fair, you may ruin the day for other 996GT3s on road tyres when they realise they can't keep up

My mission this year is to take the 6GT3 out on slicks...possibly at Portimao (in plan) or Silverstone (any dry day once I've sorted out a support car and driver!)

Let me know when you're doing that T, I'll come out and play

[JulierPass]

LaSource said:

Steve Rance said:

Slicks are great when they are in the sweet spot but they go off quickly and performance can drop below that of a road legal track tyre reasonably quickly

Yes I am aware slicks have a particular sweet spot when new. However 6GT3 trackers who use slicks tell me that used slicks are still quicker than road tyres. I do not have personal experience on the 6GT3 to counter otherwise - but I also note your point above. It would not be very exciting if the drop off is too fast - any suggestions what this timeframe might be in whatever metric?

I have used slicks on a KTM X-Bow a few times last year which were fairly old and they were really cool - both in terms of pace but also in terms of the surety of how the car brakes and handles which gives the driver a lot more confidence...so just wondering if the same experience will be replicated with the heavier GT3.

Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 13th February 14:15

In my experience new slicks are at their best for an hour and then they start to drop off, but you just drive to the grip available. There is about 3 seconds a lap between a new slick and a well used slick around Silverstone GP, but a well used one is definitely quicker that a Michelin Cup 2, unless you've flat spotted the hell out of the slicks!

[LaSource]

JulierPass said:

Let me know when you're doing that T, I'll come out and play

will do

[Dan911]

porschegeoff said:

Have fond memories of my SY 996.1 GT3CS K400 which is now owned by another poster on here (Dan911).

I bought her almost exactly 15 years ago on a very mild sunny late winters day much like today and had 12.5 years of immense driving pleasure. The best car I've owned or driven by some margin.

Back in 2004/05, there was an online GT3 enthusiasts group called GT3 Titanic and remember fondly several track days that the group organized at Bedford Autodrome & Goodwood (I think Steve Rance will remember this).

Happy days and hopefully some day in the not too distant future I will get back behind the wheel of a 996 or 997 GT3.

She is currently tucked up till April/May time. Must try and use her this year, I think I only did 1100 miles last year.

[Digga]

LaSource said:

JulierPass said:

Let me know when you're doing that T, I'll come out and play

will do

Your pictures from Portimao always look ace - reliable weather is a real bonus when booking track days months in advance.

O/T Always wondered, what route do you use to get the car there from the UK?