Discussion
Ever since I've been interested in cars I have always wanted a 911 and 18 months ago I brought a 996.2 C2 manual. I'm reasonably handy with the spanners and can do most things - changed all the shocks and springs, discs all round, brake & rack hard lines etc. I'm on a journey with it and have a repair fund set aside. Engine and gearbox rebuilds I wouldn't take on. It's lovely to drive and every journey puts a smile on my face.
However, the car I fell in love with as a lad, was an air cooled, the first Porsche I went in was an air cooled (1978 T reg) so my eye's are beginning to stray......
996 +ve's Known quantity, manageable financially should the worse happen, no rust issues, incredible to drive, stronger / safer shell. -ve's too fast, lots of electronics to go wrong, not air cooled.
Air Cooled +ve's Smaller, Simpler so easier to work on, exploitable at sensible speeds, looks, its air cooled! -ve's At least double the purchase price of the 996 (which would need to go), still needs a slush fund, rust, repair costs.
I don't want a garage queen and would rather have something that is basically sound and has a strong rust free / well repaired shell that needs a bit of ongoing fettling. Non standard but 'accepted' mods would be fine as would those with engine swaps. There have been a few for sale recently that would fit the bill. Not sure about LHD albeit they are generally cheaper and it would need to be manual.
Just wondered if any others been down this path and any general advice / guidance eg would it be worth getting a non-standard car inspected even just to rule out accident damage / check shell integrity?
I'm probably a year away from doing it so lots of time to ponder.
Advice on a postcard to.....
Regards
Ian
However, the car I fell in love with as a lad, was an air cooled, the first Porsche I went in was an air cooled (1978 T reg) so my eye's are beginning to stray......
996 +ve's Known quantity, manageable financially should the worse happen, no rust issues, incredible to drive, stronger / safer shell. -ve's too fast, lots of electronics to go wrong, not air cooled.
Air Cooled +ve's Smaller, Simpler so easier to work on, exploitable at sensible speeds, looks, its air cooled! -ve's At least double the purchase price of the 996 (which would need to go), still needs a slush fund, rust, repair costs.
I don't want a garage queen and would rather have something that is basically sound and has a strong rust free / well repaired shell that needs a bit of ongoing fettling. Non standard but 'accepted' mods would be fine as would those with engine swaps. There have been a few for sale recently that would fit the bill. Not sure about LHD albeit they are generally cheaper and it would need to be manual.
Just wondered if any others been down this path and any general advice / guidance eg would it be worth getting a non-standard car inspected even just to rule out accident damage / check shell integrity?
I'm probably a year away from doing it so lots of time to ponder.
Advice on a postcard to.....
Regards
Ian
That's a good point - no not driven one.
The value thing is partly why I said in a years time when hopefully the brexit debacle will be onto the next stage with a bit more certainty and also better for 996 resale if I've kept it a bit. Hopefully there will be a price correction. As an aside, I went to the new Caterham dealership opening at Silverstone last weekend. They are a Lotus dealer too - They have a lot of Lotus cars in stock.
I know what you mean older / poorer condition car costing 2 or 3 times what I have - I'd struggle to write a business case for it!
Ian
The value thing is partly why I said in a years time when hopefully the brexit debacle will be onto the next stage with a bit more certainty and also better for 996 resale if I've kept it a bit. Hopefully there will be a price correction. As an aside, I went to the new Caterham dealership opening at Silverstone last weekend. They are a Lotus dealer too - They have a lot of Lotus cars in stock.
I know what you mean older / poorer condition car costing 2 or 3 times what I have - I'd struggle to write a business case for it!
Ian
You story is very similar to mine Ian, loved 911's all my life and managed to get a 996 last year after a couple of years with a compromise Boxster (Great cars but always niggled it wasn't a 911) I am also handy with the spanners and will tackle most jobs just like yourself. My first advise on this would be to drive an aircooled............Again great cars but an acquired taste depending on what you are hoping to get from it.
996 is a great car and as time goes on they are becoming appreciated more everytime a new model comes out that shifts further away from the original 911 bloodline of small. light and nimble cars with a flat six NA motor hanging out the back. The 996 will go the way of the others just takes a little time.
Keep us posted
Ian
996 is a great car and as time goes on they are becoming appreciated more everytime a new model comes out that shifts further away from the original 911 bloodline of small. light and nimble cars with a flat six NA motor hanging out the back. The 996 will go the way of the others just takes a little time.
Keep us posted
Ian
I hope I might have something to offer here.
I own a last of the line, 911 G50-boxed aircooled - lightly tuned and lightweighted - in perfect condition (before that modern 964 rubbish came along ;-) and a 996.2 GT3. To buy either again today they would not be far apart in value.
The 996 is modern enough with some old car traits (mainly the understeer if you're not paying attention to which axle has the weight, and the bobble on turn in) but is just the much better car if you only had to have one. It rides better, it's faster, it's better at cruising, it's more economical, you can deposit the wife in it, no one looks at you, you can hear the stereo and it's probably even as a GT3 not more expensive to maintain. I think all those things would apply to a C2, you just get that engine on top with the GT3.
The AC car is better in a very, very narrow window - when you're on your own, sunday afternoon, window down, on good B-roads at legal speeds less than an hour away from home. Otherwise it's uncomfortable, impractical, comically unsafe, more upkeep, etc. etc.
But when it's good it is very good indeed. The mods on mine to the chassis make handling and steering pin sharp. It's not so fast that you can't chuck it around on the road and play with the weight and grip - you really feel part of it. Be aware that a less healthy and standard AC car might not offer this.
Further more AC values will never "correct". When I was 18 a nice early 70's "S" was £15k and an "RS" 50k. When I was 25 the S was now £30k and the RS £70k. When I was 35 try 60 and 150k. I'm just a whisker under 40 and we all know what the prices of those cars are now. All AC cars will continue to follow this trend, as will to a lesser extent the 996. Today a nice usable 996 is the price of that "S" circa 1998.
Having said all that if I had to have one I'd stick with the 996.... But on the other hand I wouldn't blame you for having a go with an AC car but be realistic, the viable entry point is now north of 40k. Poor value compared to a 996, but good value compared to other "classics" which have also shot up. Like all classic cars a "rolling resto" will never repay you and cost as much in the long run as just buying a nice one.
I own a last of the line, 911 G50-boxed aircooled - lightly tuned and lightweighted - in perfect condition (before that modern 964 rubbish came along ;-) and a 996.2 GT3. To buy either again today they would not be far apart in value.
The 996 is modern enough with some old car traits (mainly the understeer if you're not paying attention to which axle has the weight, and the bobble on turn in) but is just the much better car if you only had to have one. It rides better, it's faster, it's better at cruising, it's more economical, you can deposit the wife in it, no one looks at you, you can hear the stereo and it's probably even as a GT3 not more expensive to maintain. I think all those things would apply to a C2, you just get that engine on top with the GT3.
The AC car is better in a very, very narrow window - when you're on your own, sunday afternoon, window down, on good B-roads at legal speeds less than an hour away from home. Otherwise it's uncomfortable, impractical, comically unsafe, more upkeep, etc. etc.
But when it's good it is very good indeed. The mods on mine to the chassis make handling and steering pin sharp. It's not so fast that you can't chuck it around on the road and play with the weight and grip - you really feel part of it. Be aware that a less healthy and standard AC car might not offer this.
Further more AC values will never "correct". When I was 18 a nice early 70's "S" was £15k and an "RS" 50k. When I was 25 the S was now £30k and the RS £70k. When I was 35 try 60 and 150k. I'm just a whisker under 40 and we all know what the prices of those cars are now. All AC cars will continue to follow this trend, as will to a lesser extent the 996. Today a nice usable 996 is the price of that "S" circa 1998.
Having said all that if I had to have one I'd stick with the 996.... But on the other hand I wouldn't blame you for having a go with an AC car but be realistic, the viable entry point is now north of 40k. Poor value compared to a 996, but good value compared to other "classics" which have also shot up. Like all classic cars a "rolling resto" will never repay you and cost as much in the long run as just buying a nice one.
Vide:
£59,000 964 with 96,000 miles: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
£59,995 996 GT3 with 59,000 miles: https://parr-uk.co.uk/product/porsche-911-996-gt3-...
£59,000 964 with 96,000 miles: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
£59,995 996 GT3 with 59,000 miles: https://parr-uk.co.uk/product/porsche-911-996-gt3-...
Dammit said:
Vide:
£59,000 964 with 96,000 miles: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
£59,995 996 GT3 with 59,000 miles: https://parr-uk.co.uk/product/porsche-911-996-gt3-...
IF that 964 was LHD, non-sunroof, rot-free and with bills which showed some recent engine (top end rebuild) expenditure and had a watertight service history AND a few decent upgrades (think decent uprated dampers/springs, anti roll bars, decat/remap etc) the older car would be a very tempting proposition (for me) as it'd make the basis of a decent RS evocation/rep, but that's having worked my way through a plethora of W/C GT cars ... £59,000 964 with 96,000 miles: https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
£59,995 996 GT3 with 59,000 miles: https://parr-uk.co.uk/product/porsche-911-996-gt3-...
Edit to add, personally I wouldn't even consider anything pre-964 on the A/C front unless it was a "proper" early car, then you have no choice but to accept their many and varied limitations, I tend to think the SC and 3.2 Carreras, albeit in standard form, are the worst of all worlds.
And to muddy the waters even further (link shamelessly nicked from another current thread on here) :
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/911-Carrera-4S...
Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 9th April 17:33
Paynewright said:
That's a good point - no not driven one.
The value thing is partly why I said in a years time when hopefully the brexit debacle will be onto the next stage with a bit more certainty and also better for 996 resale if I've kept it a bit. Hopefully there will be a price correction. As an aside, I went to the new Caterham dealership opening at Silverstone last weekend. They are a Lotus dealer too - They have a lot of Lotus cars in stock.
I know what you mean older / poorer condition car costing 2 or 3 times what I have - I'd struggle to write a business case for it!
Ian
If you couldnt write a business case for one before you may do after watching this. The value thing is partly why I said in a years time when hopefully the brexit debacle will be onto the next stage with a bit more certainty and also better for 996 resale if I've kept it a bit. Hopefully there will be a price correction. As an aside, I went to the new Caterham dealership opening at Silverstone last weekend. They are a Lotus dealer too - They have a lot of Lotus cars in stock.
I know what you mean older / poorer condition car costing 2 or 3 times what I have - I'd struggle to write a business case for it!
Ian
https://youtu.be/23l2L4YbXZg
I'd agree....anyway, back on topic....
I've got a new found love for all things 996...I have a 996.2 C2 tip in Arena red, and a Polar silver 996T manual - they both get a lot of use, particularly the C2 tip....the gear change is hilariously slow, but the chassis is superb, steering feel great, and it makes a great daily just wafting around anonymously.....and it didn't cost much more than as a set of Mg wheels on a 991.2 GT3 RS......
I never seemed to gel in the same way with an air cooled car - 964s and 993s just seemed less able to drop into the use I wanted of them, but I completely get why people fall for the looks...
I've got a new found love for all things 996...I have a 996.2 C2 tip in Arena red, and a Polar silver 996T manual - they both get a lot of use, particularly the C2 tip....the gear change is hilariously slow, but the chassis is superb, steering feel great, and it makes a great daily just wafting around anonymously.....and it didn't cost much more than as a set of Mg wheels on a 991.2 GT3 RS......
I never seemed to gel in the same way with an air cooled car - 964s and 993s just seemed less able to drop into the use I wanted of them, but I completely get why people fall for the looks...
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think CrashBang's post was polite and with merit, I don't think it was meant to be antagonistic in any way.
IREvans said:
I'd agree....anyway, back on topic....
I've got a new found love for all things 996...I have a 996.2 C2 tip in Arena red, and a Polar silver 996T manual - they both get a lot of use, particularly the C2 tip....the gear change is hilariously slow, but the chassis is superb, steering feel great, and it makes a great daily just wafting around anonymously.....and it didn't cost much more than as a set of Mg wheels on a 991.2 GT3 RS......
I never seemed to gel in the same way with an air cooled car - 964s and 993s just seemed less able to drop into the use I wanted of them, but I completely get why people fall for the looks...
^ Agreed, not antagonistic at all.I've got a new found love for all things 996...I have a 996.2 C2 tip in Arena red, and a Polar silver 996T manual - they both get a lot of use, particularly the C2 tip....the gear change is hilariously slow, but the chassis is superb, steering feel great, and it makes a great daily just wafting around anonymously.....and it didn't cost much more than as a set of Mg wheels on a 991.2 GT3 RS......
I never seemed to gel in the same way with an air cooled car - 964s and 993s just seemed less able to drop into the use I wanted of them, but I completely get why people fall for the looks...
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think CrashBang's post was polite and with merit, I don't think it was meant to be antagonistic in any way.
Back to the 996, something like an RPM Technik CSR (or self built along the same lines) with a Hartech proofed engine would be a perfect daily driver, fast road car.
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