992 - The importance of the spec

992 - The importance of the spec

Author
Discussion

breadvan

1,321 posts

109 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Very good.

I’ll probably do something similar, I quite fancy a full on PTS Turbo Cab but I suspect the c2s will be all the car I actually need. Can’t wait.

nw942

260 posts

46 months

Thursday 16th May
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IREvans said:
My tyre pressures are at the comfort setting, 29F/32R, and I prefer it at this setting, as it's way more compliant than at the higher standard pressures. Did you not like the way it drove on the comfort setting...?

If your car stays in a straight line under heavy braking from moderate speed, then it's unlikely that your front toe is out - I know this isn't particularly scientific, so to put your mind at ease, I'm sure your dealer would check the tracking for you.
I guess increasing the front tyre pressue on the 4WD help with your understeer issue, albeit at the cost of comfort?

Do both cars have the same tyres?

IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
nw942 said:
IREvans said:
My tyre pressures are at the comfort setting, 29F/32R, and I prefer it at this setting, as it's way more compliant than at the higher standard pressures. Did you not like the way it drove on the comfort setting...?

If your car stays in a straight line under heavy braking from moderate speed, then it's unlikely that your front toe is out - I know this isn't particularly scientific, so to put your mind at ease, I'm sure your dealer would check the tracking for you.
I guess increasing the front tyre pressue on the 4WD help with your understeer issue, albeit at the cost of comfort?

Do both cars have the same tyres?
Yes, both cars on the same Goodyear tyres and at the same pressures.

If I increase the front pressures, it’ll make the front end worse (and I’m already at the lowest ‘comfort’ pressure) . It’s not so much understeer at the front, just a general lack of precision in placing the front end. The way it washes out on the exit of a corner is a similar phenomenon to car with an over aggressive rear LSD.

Having it driven it more, I think it’s the lack of RWS that reduces its agility, the higher chassis reduces its precision, and extra weight just blunts the overall performance.

By the way, I’m not saying at all that a 992 C4S in this spec is a terrible car, it’s just not how I like it.

d16rr

142 posts

83 months

Thursday 16th May
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breadvan said:
This thread is my nightmare.

I’m 2 weeks from owning a C2s Cab, an early car of course and specced by the dealer. Took a compromise to have an early car and it’s best described as a comfort spec.

No ras, pasm -10, nor pddc.

Got loads of nice to haves including 18 ways, matrix lights, Bose, chrono and sports exhaust.

Not sure about illuminated plates and sport design sills but they’re there.

I hope the cab won’t be so spec sensitive. I don’t think a c2s needs to be a pseudo GTS and I’m sure someone will still want at it the end of the summer when I trade up, I hope...........
Great spec, pretty much identical to my 2s coupe, feels good when pushing on, rws and pdcc are no way a must have option the car works perfectly well without, enjoy

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Quick drive with a C2S demonstrator, almost identical to mine apart from having PDCC and not having Front Lift.

Much better composure, turn in and at holding a line through a corner with throttle application. Really shrinks around you in twisties.

Does PDCC operate all the time, or only when "engaged" with the dash button?

Either way, something's not right with mine - I wonder whether the new dampers can get confused and need a reset. Booked it in for a passenger door handle squeak fix and investigation into the handling. We will see....
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Cheib

16,192 posts

116 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
breadvan said:
This thread is my nightmare.

I’m 2 weeks from owning a C2s Cab, an early car of course and specced by the dealer. Took a compromise to have an early car and it’s best described as a comfort spec.

No ras, pasm -10, nor pddc.

Got loads of nice to haves including 18 ways, matrix lights, Bose, chrono and sports exhaust.

Not sure about illuminated plates and sport design sills but they’re there.

I hope the cab won’t be so spec sensitive. I don’t think a c2s needs to be a pseudo GTS and I’m sure someone will still want at it the end of the summer when I trade up, I hope...........
Sounds like perfect spec for a cab! People want high spec cars with the toys. I doubt 90% of cab buyers have PDCC or RWS on their list of wants. Matrix lights, 18 ways, Bose, Chrono and Sports Exhaust will be much more important!

Deep

708 posts

184 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Leithen said:
Quick drive with a C2S demonstrator, almost identical to mine apart from having PDCC and not having Front Lift.

Much better composure, turn in and at holding a line through a corner with throttle application. Really shrinks around you in twisties.

Does PDCC operate all the time, or only when "engaged" with the dash button?

Either way, something's not right with mine - I wonder whether the new dampers can get confused and need a reset. Booked it in for a passenger door handle squeak fix and investigation into the handling. We will see....
Pretty sure PDCC operates all the time but adopts a sportier setting when you press the button.

Secret director

130 posts

18 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Leithen said:
Quick drive with a C2S demonstrator, almost identical to mine apart from having PDCC and not having Front Lift.

Much better composure, turn in and at holding a line through a corner with throttle application. Really shrinks around you in twisties.

Does PDCC operate all the time, or only when "engaged" with the dash button?

Either way, something's not right with mine - I wonder whether the new dampers can get confused and need a reset. Booked it in for a passenger door handle squeak fix and investigation into the handling. We will see....
Really interesting thread ... I have a Carrera T with lift and RWS and previously had one with just RWS....

From my experience I don’t think a car with front lift is quite as sharp as one without... I just find that the car is a little less composed.......what I do find is that if I’ve not used lift for a while it seems to settle down and improve and feels closer to how my previous car felt.... Anyway could all be in my mind but hey!!

IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Secret director said:
Leithen said:
Quick drive with a C2S demonstrator, almost identical to mine apart from having PDCC and not having Front Lift.

Much better composure, turn in and at holding a line through a corner with throttle application. Really shrinks around you in twisties.

Does PDCC operate all the time, or only when "engaged" with the dash button?

Either way, something's not right with mine - I wonder whether the new dampers can get confused and need a reset. Booked it in for a passenger door handle squeak fix and investigation into the handling. We will see....
Really interesting thread ... I have a Carrera T with lift and RWS and previously had one with just RWS....

From my experience I don’t think a car with front lift is quite as sharp as one without... I just find that the car is a little less composed.......what I do find is that if I’ve not used lift for a while it seems to settle down and improve and feels closer to how my previous car felt.... Anyway could all be in my mind but hey!!
Interesting, as I was about to suggest that it’s possible that the lift mechanism could lead to a difference in feel at the front end. I’m sure it’s mechanically very robust, but there are moving parts there which somehow need to be bound firmly when on the move. I’ve never driven 2 cars back to back like you have to make the comparison.....

GT3ZZZ

522 posts

111 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
IREvans said:
Interesting, as I was about to suggest that it’s possible that the lift mechanism could lead to a difference in feel at the front end. I’m sure it’s mechanically very robust, but there are moving parts there which somehow need to be bound firmly when on the move. I’ve never driven 2 cars back to back like you have to make the comparison.....
The vast majority of 991 GT3/RS have front lift specced and I've never seen a single comment to say its a problem, certainly haven't been able to notice anything on mine.

Secret director

130 posts

18 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
GT3ZZZ said:
The vast majority of 991 GT3/RS have front lift specced and I've never seen a single comment to say its a problem, certainly haven't been able to notice anything on mine.
Just my experience.and I can’t find anything on the internet about it...been looking for months...

arcamalpha

710 posts

105 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Secret director said:
Just my experience.and I can’t find anything on the internet about it...been looking for months...
I agree with you. Problem is there are so few GT cars without lift to try!

IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
GT3ZZZ said:
The vast majority of 991 GT3/RS have front lift specced and I've never seen a single comment to say its a problem, certainly haven't been able to notice anything on mine.
I'm of a similar view, as each GT3 or RS I've had has had front lift. We're not saying there's a problem, just wondering if a car with lift will exhibit slightly different characteristics to one without..?

Taffy66

2,361 posts

43 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
GT3ZZZ said:
The vast majority of 991 GT3/RS have front lift specced and I've never seen a single comment to say its a problem, certainly haven't been able to notice anything on mine.
There is one distinct difference between the lift on the all 991s including the 991.2GT3 and the lift fitted to the 991.2GT3 RS..The 991.2 GT3 RS has a hydraulic system whereas all other 991s have a pneumatic lift..The former weighs half as much as the latter IIRC..Obviously the weight is only an insignificant amount but perhaps some of the workings might have other side effects..
I've also read that the 992 4S is more prone to understeer on corner exit..If the demo 992 4S driven by the OP had RAS then this under steer would have been largely eradicated..When i drove both RAS and non RAS 991S at the PEC the biggest benefit i found was the RAS had faster corner entry speed and much more neutral through the whole corner..
I'm a huge fan of RAS but decided to leave it off my 992S Coupe as the 11% faster steering rack on the non RAS 992 would make it less of a must have..Time will tell..

Secret director

130 posts

18 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
IREvans said:
I'm of a similar view, as each GT3 or RS I've had has had front lift. We're not saying there's a problem, just wondering if a car with lift will exhibit slightly different characteristics to one without..?
It’s an interesting question and certainly one I have been toying with... maybe it’s not as noticeable on the GT3.. as I assume it’s got far firmer suspension than the PASM on the other cars... Going out for a drive now to have a play ... !

Leithen

5,454 posts

208 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Sadly the car isn't going in for another two weeks, and even then I'm not entirely optimistic the diagnostics will be easy.

I'm hoping there is something wrong, that when corrected, will improve the B-road composure and the cornering. If however, it proves to be a combination of Front Lift and no PDCC, I'll be very disappointed.

The dilemma will then be whether to sell and re-order, or look for alternatives. Ho hum.

Secret director

130 posts

18 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all

Looks like all axle lift is the same now ...will report back after run to Llandudno on Sunday ..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/flatsixes.com/cars/...

IREvans

Original Poster:

578 posts

63 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Secret director said:
Leithen said:
Quick drive with a C2S demonstrator, almost identical to mine apart from having PDCC and not having Front Lift.

Much better composure, turn in and at holding a line through a corner with throttle application. Really shrinks around you in twisties.

Does PDCC operate all the time, or only when "engaged" with the dash button?

Either way, something's not right with mine - I wonder whether the new dampers can get confused and need a reset. Booked it in for a passenger door handle squeak fix and investigation into the handling. We will see....
Really interesting thread ... I have a Carrera T with lift and RWS and previously had one with just RWS....

From my experience I don’t think a car with front lift is quite as sharp as one without... I just find that the car is a little less composed.......what I do find is that if I’ve not used lift for a while it seems to settle down and improve and feels closer to how my previous car felt.... Anyway could all be in my mind but hey!!
Interesting, as I was about to suggest that it’s possible that the lift mechanism could lead to a difference in feel at the front end. I’m sure it’s mechanically very robust, but there are moving parts there which somehow need to be bound firmly when on the move. I’ve never driven 2 cars back to back like you have to make the comparison.....

Grantstown

113 posts

28 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
RWS is a bit fake though, talk to any racer they hate it as the cars less predictable.

And yes I own one with and one without, don't care either way, the one with turns in different that's all at slower speeds.
the one without feels more true to drive.

PTV, PDK, e-diffs and now RWS are making people hero's the 992 feels like a bloody Audi to drive, there is nothing 911 about it imo.
But then Audi sell a lot of cars and it's what people want I think, get's macan buyers something to aim for now a 992 drives like it does, nothing to be scared of.

I think new cars in most brands are a bit st to drive, IF you like driving.
The 992 is dead to me, it's not a 911 !!!
I am sure most people want auto steering to come as soon as possible !!!

really hard to get past the Cayman R and 997.2 GTS models, the best era for drivers.
Spot on. Less is more so often for drivers. There’s a gradual convergence of all new cars in character and even the 911 isn’t immune.

Cheib

16,192 posts

116 months

Taffy66 said:
There is one distinct difference between the lift on the all 991s including the 991.2GT3 and the lift fitted to the 991.2GT3 RS..The 991.2 GT3 RS has a hydraulic system whereas all other 991s have a pneumatic lift..The former weighs half as much as the latter IIRC..Obviously the weight is only an insignificant amount but perhaps some of the workings might have other side effects..
..
Where on earth did joy pick that up ! I thought I read a lot about these cars but never come across that. I hope the hydraulic system isn’t via a PTO like it is on my tractor!