911 ST backdate....

[Cheib]

evodarren said:

Cheib said:

When I was looking at the Speedster the bloke who was showing it to me said the great thing about owning these older cars is the events that open up to you...not necessarily track events. There’s a big 356 members meet every year for example, next year’s is in Munich. I also recently met a bloke who owns a 1969 911 S...easier to say where he hasn’t been with that than where he has. He’s part of a group of 15 owners of pre 1970 911’s who do a major three month trip every couple of years.

I have a 997.1 Gt3 which is as modern as I wish to go for a weekend fun car.
I Alison love the 356 Speedster. I cannot a ford a real one so I brought the most accurate reproduction replica I could find. It is made by Vintage Speedsters in Arizona. They build them in there own factory. No home build kits . It’s not super fast but it’s. real pleasure to drive when the suns out. More people ask me about the car than my Gt3.
A real feel good car.

Lovely looking car ! What engine does it have in it ? Great two car garage you have there.

This is the Speedster I saw which has just finished being restored...it’s not matching numbers so not totally daft money but still a big number!

[Slippydiff]

IMI A said:

Had a similar conversation on a similar car. A rep is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Bought it

Pretty much this ^ It's all too easy to invest huge sums in making any of the following look authentic :

Exterior/Bodywork
Wheels/tyres
Interior
Engine
Engine bay
Transmission
Brakes
Suspension

But if you've based it on the "wrong" car to start with, it'll only appeal to a very narrow market. Do it right and fit all the right bits to the "correct" shell and the costs ramp up massively. All too often owners get carried away (think Chris Harris with Kermit) and whilst you can end up with something very special indeed, it'll cost a fortune AND may only be "very special indeed" to the person that commissioned it originally.

My 2.8 RSR rep would have been a superb and accurate example and was based on a very nice '73, LHD, ex-Californian car/ shell, but even back in 2009 I quickly became aware of just how the costs were ramping up, and that the end product wasn't going to be the best road car...

I wish Singer, or better still, someone based in the UK, would produce something like this :



Utilising standard 964 steel widebody panels (or very high quality carbon fibre as an option) with no styling mods bar a ducktail for those that want one, but the full Singeresque engine/6 speed transmission, brakes, suspension, wiring loom etc etc and a limited choice of wheels along with a bespoke interior to the customers requirements. Only available in Ferrari yellow, Maritime, Rubystone, Mexico, Viper or Motorsport (Fern) white.

[evodarren]

Cheib said:

evodarren said:

Cheib said:

When I was looking at the Speedster the bloke who was showing it to me said the great thing about owning these older cars is the events that open up to you...not necessarily track events. There’s a big 356 members meet every year for example, next year’s is in Munich. I also recently met a bloke who owns a 1969 911 S...easier to say where he hasn’t been with that than where he has. He’s part of a group of 15 owners of pre 1970 911’s who do a major three month trip every couple of years.

I have a 997.1 Gt3 which is as modern as I wish to go for a weekend fun car.
I Alison love the 356 Speedster. I cannot a ford a real one so I brought the most accurate reproduction replica I could find. It is made by Vintage Speedsters in Arizona. They build them in there own factory. No home build kits . It’s not super fast but it’s. real pleasure to drive when the suns out. More people ask me about the car than my Gt3.
A real feel good car.

Lovely looking car ! What engine does it have in it ? Great two car garage you have there.

This is the Speedster I saw which has just finished being restored...it’s not matching numbers so not totally daft money but still a big number!

Its traditionally VW Beetle based . Has a 1914 cc engine about 85hp you can go 2.3 ltr 200hp
But not for me roughly the same hp as an original . It still movs pretty well being only 700kilos

Edited by evodarren on Thursday 13th June 19:05

[Yellow491]

Taffy66 said:

As per title what can some P'heads guys who are better informed tell me about them..I have been thinking of buying an 80s 911 Coupe and restoring it to ST spec but have absolutely no idea where to go or costs involved..I have seen a few for sale including Jay Kay's Condo green ST which might be a more cost effective option..I have also spotted another green 73 RS ducktail backdate for sale in Aberdeenshire for £69K which seems particularly good value albeit not my prefered ST..
The very first 911 i sat in back in 1979 was a green Coupe so from a nostalgia POV i really hanker after one..Another reason is that new Turbo 991s have got too big, fast and characterless for my liking..

Firstly taff,why do you want one,a st is slow and quirky mainly with 901 gearboxs etc,go and drive one first.
They are great fun,but only a authentic rep will give you the special factors a st has to offer and not for the faint hearted in wallet and driving input.
My old st rep is for sale,its built on a ex south italy 2.4s,which will always have some value in it.I won the tour brittania in it and other events,it has a mint pre 73 tub ,which is a rare thing.It was built as a clone of my original st with many special factory features built in it for competition use.I have not seen it for a few years.

[Blue62]

Dammit said:

Asking the owner to take a £25,000 haircut might make for an interesting conversation.

Why? It's not as though these things are in a Parker's guide, it's worth what someone is willing to pay and just like a prospective buyer, the seller is having a punt.

[Blue62]

Slippydiff said:

Pretty much this ^ It's all too easy to invest huge sums in making any of the following look authentic :

Exterior/Bodywork
Wheels/tyres
Interior
Engine
Engine bay
Transmission
Brakes
Suspension

But if you've based it on the "wrong" car to start with, it'll only appeal to a very narrow market. Do it right and fit all the right bits to the "correct" shell and the costs ramp up massively. All too often owners get carried away (think Chris Harris with Kermit) and whilst you can end up with something very special indeed, it'll cost a fortune AND may only be "very special indeed" to the person that commissioned it originally.

My 2.8 RSR rep would have been a superb and accurate example and was based on a very nice '73, LHD, ex-Californian car/ shell, but even back in 2009 I quickly became aware of just how the costs were ramping up, and that the end product wasn't going to be the best road car...

I wish Singer, or better still, someone based in the UK, would produce something like this :



Utilising standard 964 steel widebody panels (or very high quality carbon fibre as an option) with no styling mods bar a ducktail for those that want one, but the full Singeresque engine/6 speed transmission, brakes, suspension, wiring loom etc etc and a limited choice of wheels along with a bespoke interior to the customers requirements. Only available in Ferrari yellow, Maritime, Rubystone, Mexico, Viper or Motorsport (Fern) white.

Where is that green car Slippy? That is pretty much everything I yearn for in a 911.

[Cheib]

Blue62 said:

Dammit said:

Asking the owner to take a £25,000 haircut might make for an interesting conversation.

Why? It's not as though these things are in a Parker's guide, it's worth what someone is willing to pay and just like a prospective buyer, the seller is having a punt.

I’d agree with that...backdates/restomods all seem to take ages to sell and lord knows where they trade relative to original asking. The only one I have seen sell relatively quickly was “Olive” from Sports Purpose which someone on here bought! Someone made a point about the interior of the JZM still being from the donor car rather than the same period as they’ve gone for with the exterior....totally agree with that...should be period correct.

[Slippydiff]

Blue62 said:

Where is that green car Slippy? That is pretty much everything I yearn for in a 911.

It was built by Sean Lockyear, that picture was from JZM’s showroom a good few years ago.
The car was up at RPM (Knaresborough not Technik) 3 years ago when I was up there. The owners is a regular customer of theirs. It’s a stunning looking car isn’t it ?

[ras62]

Slippydiff said:

Blue62 said:

Where is that green car Slippy? That is pretty much everything I yearn for in a 911.

It was built by Sean Lockyear, that picture was from JZM’s showroom a good few years ago.
The car was up at RPM (Knaresborough not Technik) 3 years ago when I was up there. The owners is a regular customer of theirs. It’s a stunning looking car isn’t it ?

Prefer a narrow body shell personally but looks aside those wheels and tyres will kill any driver enjoyment. Less is more!

[Slippydiff]

ras62 said:

Prefer a narrow body shell personally but looks aside those wheels and tyres will kill any driver enjoyment. Less is more!

On the contrary Rob, that particular shortcoming would be courtesy of the front wheels being driven as well as the rears ...

[dinkel]

A Speedster. For sale... Early one.


From the same meeting as the green 1970 911S. Lovely original but updated 356 Speedster. I drove it and it's so much different compared to a rep based on a Beetle.

[Yellow491]

dinkel said:

A Speedster. For sale... Early one.


From the same meeting as the green 1970 911S. Lovely original but updated 356 Speedster. I drove it and it's so much different compared to a rep based on a Beetle.

Whats the info on the speedster ,may be taff would like one.

[dinkel]

PM

[MrVert]

Slippydiff said:

Blue62 said:

Where is that green car Slippy? That is pretty much everything I yearn for in a 911.

It was built by Sean Lockyear, that picture was from JZM’s showroom a good few years ago.
The car was up at RPM (Knaresborough not Technik) 3 years ago when I was up there. The owners is a regular customer of theirs. It’s a stunning looking car isn’t it ?

Was that Tony's old car (LWT RSR)? Looks very similar and completely stunning

Edited by MrVert on Friday 14th June 16:02

[evodarren]

dinkel said:

A Speedster. For sale... Early one.


From the same meeting as the green 1970 911S. Lovely original but updated 356 Speedster. I drove it and it's so much different compared to a rep based on a Beetle.

I would love a real one, but out of my budget.

At the London Excel classic car show this year therw was an original . Silver with red interia. Originally a leht hand drive by converted to right hand drive for Australia It went for £295,00 plus fees. I brought mine from the Excel show form a company called Autovero, the uk inporters for Vintage Speedsters mine was a 1/10 of the price.Like i said wold love a real one but my replica gets the same attension and reponses and i fell better not breaking the bank.

[thelostboy]

If I had the money, I would love a real one, but at the same time I imagine even an original one is god awful to drive. I am a driving enthusiast at heart and fear all cars of this era would be a bit rubbish. This is somewhat compounded by my race experience - I have a '65 Lotus Elan 26R in Masters Historic and an early 911 is so far down the road its almost laughable.

And yet, an early 911 'hotrod' looks so good and sound great too. I have no idea how to judge the values though. For me, on the face of it some of these hotrods range from £40,000 - £200,000 and look near enough identical to me! Would just love a drive of one to see what the fuss is about.

[Cheib]

thelostboy said:

If I had the money, I would love a real one, but at the same time I imagine even an original one is god awful to drive. I am a driving enthusiast at heart and fear all cars of this era would be a bit rubbish. This is somewhat compounded by my race experience - I have a '65 Lotus Elan 26R in Masters Historic and an early 911 is so far down the road its almost laughable.

And yet, an early 911 'hotrod' looks so good and sound great too. I have no idea how to judge the values though. For me, on the face of it some of these hotrods range from £40,000 - £200,000 and look near enough identical to me! Would just love a drive of one to see what the fuss is about.

356’s are supposed to be really nice to drive....much better than you’d think. I think part of the thing about them is they’re alive at normal road speeds...I’m told a Cabriolet D is the one to have if you want a soft top...a bit more comfortable than a Speedster but very similar to drive.

[dinkel]

Maybe try a coupe then. Later cars are still in-budget.

[paul0843]

Taffy66 said:

IMI A said:

Yes too much at £100k. At £75k I think I'd maybe run out of reasons not to purchase. Wouldn't be difficult to source an early dash or convert to ST spec - far easier than a back date I'd imagine and more authentic too

There is a very nice ST backdate in Blood orange for sale JZM for £120K..In a great colour and looks like to be in absolutely fantastic condition as you would expect with JZM.
The white one at Ruf looks like a nice RS copy which i like every bit as much as an ST especially with the ducktail.

Have seen the orange st replica at jzm. All I would say is that if anybody is looking
to built one,this is probably half price of what it will cost .
Stunning immaculate car.

[RSVP911]

paul0843 said:

Taffy66 said:

IMI A said:

Yes too much at £100k. At £75k I think I'd maybe run out of reasons not to purchase. Wouldn't be difficult to source an early dash or convert to ST spec - far easier than a back date I'd imagine and more authentic too

There is a very nice ST backdate in Blood orange for sale JZM for £120K..In a great colour and looks like to be in absolutely fantastic condition as you would expect with JZM.
The white one at Ruf looks like a nice RS copy which i like every bit as much as an ST especially with the ducktail.

Have seen the orange st replica at jzm. All I would say is that if anybody is looking
to built one,this is probably half price of what it will cost .
Stunning immaculate car.

Yes - but have you driven it ........... !