992 - essential options vs depreciation?

992 - essential options vs depreciation?

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mw300

Original Poster:

11 posts

31 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Gentlemen

Long-time lurker, would be grateful for your advice:

Planning to order a new 992 base Carrera 2. Car will be driven daily around London, an hour per day on average, perhaps one longer trip per quarter, maybe one trip to Europe a year. 5,000-6,000 miles p.a. Clearly a new car will depreciate heavily but how to optimise depreciation vs. possible regrets when ordering from new? Don’t want to buy used as can’t bear the hassle of potential breakdowns, major maintenance, annual MOTs etc.

As paradoxical as it sounds considering the indulgence of buying new and driving so little, I am keen to minimise depreciation and not fall prey to Porsche’s ridiculous policy of option pricing. Might keep the car for a long time but base case is just 2 to 3 years. Current car is a 2018 Audi S3 cab ordered new with pretty much every option ticked. Many of them like Matrix Lights turned out to be unnecessary in town and not worth it for occasional out of town trips. Car is nice but boring and seating position too high.

My most basic spec below:
http://www.porsche-code.com/PLQDIHD2

Guards red with standard 19/20” wheels
Sunroof (basic not glass, think it looks better and glass doesn’t let much light in anyway)
4-way sports seat plus (the regular ones are uncomfortable to me)
Sports-tex
Reversing camera
Auto dimming mirrors
Lane change assist
Ioniser

The last 4 options are just to improve driving around town. I understand they’ll be a write-off but they’re cheap and non-negotiable for me.

Don’t really want to splurge for Bose or PSE as these can be upgraded later and frankly they don’t sound that different to the standard ones to me.

Questions:

1. I have a tendency to feel hot and not sure whether to go for sports-tex or leather with seat ventilation. Leather without ventilation is out of the question. Salesman thinks leather much better for resale and did not have samples of the new sports-tex but it looks nice in photos. Currently have Alcantara in my Audi and back can still get hot in the summer even with the AC on. Tried the seat ventilation and it works well but a bit noisy and yet another feature that could fail randomly. Seat ventilation another £750 but maybe worth it if it improves resale & cooling. Thoughts on functionality and resale?

2. Sports Chrono: A lot of people seem to think it’s essential. An extra 0.2s 0-62 is nice but you have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise might as well buy the S. However, from recent experience a car that takes 4.5s to 62 feels fast (Golf R, Alpine) but not crazy fast. Is the improvement from 4.5 to 4.2 noticeable? What about the additional improvement from 4.2 to 4.0? Also, is there much difference between sports mode on a non-SC car, sports mode with SC, and the additional oomph / improved mapping with SC using sports plus or just generally? What about resale, will it make much difference on a 2 to 3-year-old car? Will I regret not having it or is it just a toy one barely uses after the first few weeks? Obviously if one recovers most of the cost then it’s an easier choice. Torn on this as want to draw the line somewhere but also avoid regrets later.

3. Any other options that should be added as they have the potential to significantly increase the residual value of a base car on a 2 to 3-year horizon? Can obviously add the aforementioned PSE, Bose, etc. but would like to understand their impact on residuals. Clearly options can help sell a used car more quickly but ultimately it's all about pricing it right in the first place...

Thank you for your input.

Adam B

16,165 posts

199 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
mw300 said:
Clearly a new car will depreciate heavily but how to optimise depreciation vs. possible regrets when ordering from new? Don’t want to buy used as can’t bear the hassle of potential breakdowns, major maintenance, annual MOTs etc.
So much wrong with the initial assumptions it’s hard to know where to begin.

As you already know if deprecation is a primary concern buy nearly new. Why on Earth you think a 2 year old Porsche is going to break down or require major maintenance I have no clue, in fact a new car will have issues that a new owner has to iron out.

I bought a 2 year old Macan turbo with 11k miles and loads of options. I saved 30% off list and depreciation will slow from here as I will keep for 3-4 years and do 3k pa. it has a warranty for a year after which I will renew for £1400 for 2 years, servicing is every 2 years just like it was when new. A £55 MOT once a year is hardly a hardship when half of them will be done with the service anyway

Assuming you ignore all that

Sportex - don’t bother most want leather, if you have sweat issues get the ventilated seats, they work well but write off the 750 on resale

Not familiar with the 992 spec but the usual rules apply with options, they depreciate HARD and mainly help to sell the car not retain value - get decent wheels (not the standard ones, not a fan of those on your spec) park sensors, heated seats and a couple of cheap convenience options, get red or white and save the metallic tax (which you have)

Skip the sunroof and get Bose (I would like sunroof but market doesn’t care)

Get the decent sports steering wheel and paddles if it’s not standard, the one on your link doesn’t look like the nice one

Sports chrono is tricky, the performance difference is next to nothing but market perception may differ, I am glad the guy specced it in my Macan as the clock thing breaks up the dash but I hardly ever use its sport plus mode and never used the launch control so I would say skip it

Skip PSE, RWS, PTV and all the other expensive performance/suspension acronyms

Edited by Adam B on Sunday 18th August 14:39

findtomdotcom

363 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Hello MW, I though I would offer my 2p worth. I have had 2 base Carrera's and now on my eighth 911, (a 991.2 GTS), (they get under your skin).

I totally get where you are coming from, you want a nice car that ticks the great driving box but don't want to lose too much. Well, the Carrera is perfect. I think the best way to spec a Carrera is to keep it simple and that is exactly what you are doing. Of the two 991.1's, one was lightly optioned and the other very highly specced. Guess which one lost the most money... That said, the high spec one was one of my favourite cars to own, (it was very track focused).

Colour, you are buying new so get the one you want.
Sunroof. I like you I prefer the metal roof or non-sunroof options. I don't like the contrast on lighter colour cars. However, all the dealer spec cars have the glass roof and in fairness, now that I have had 2 cars with glass, I would be tempted to spec the next now with one. It does let in lots of light but looking at your spec, I might delete it and add Bose instead.
Seats. Again on a lightly specced car 4 way Sports are perfect but if you get that hot, pay for the cool seats. However, you may not need them for 90% of the year.
I love the Sport-Tex and think for a no cost option it adds a really nice finish to the car, (I have seen it, it's hounds tooth and looks really good). Again, with your spec they are spot on, but if it was me, I would add the Crayon stitching. It's free (!) and it adds a tiny bit to the overall finish in the car. Especially if you are not speccing the glass sunroof.

If you need the other 4 options then it's all good. I wouldn't bother with the reversing camera, you really don t need it, (I have it but I wouldn't spec it again). But I would recommend adding Bose. I can't think of the last time I saw a 911 without at least Bose and the new Bose system is a marked step up from the old one. Again, for commuting and the occasional road trip it will be worth it.

Sports Chrono (SC). Well, it is a sports car..... The things that are not often talked about are the dynamic engine and gearbox mounts, they only come with SC. Not sure if its the same on the 992, but on the 991 you only got the better mounts with SC. My advice is, if you can afford it, get it. It is not only about the extra (10%) performance, which I'm not sure you will notice, it's about the engine mounts, the extra little detail in the cabin, (the clock, which some hate) and the little steering wheel selector dial. Yes, its a bit of a gimmick but it does add "something". Quite how you quantify that only you can answer.

One other thing I think you should consider on a new order is red seatbelts. I know it seems over the top, but you will thank me every time you get in the car. I have silver on my 911 and it just adds a tiny little bit to the car. 911s are very, (very) plain inside as a base spec. The red will add a tiny bit of drama that will match your red car. And for a small amount it will very much make it your car and you will notice when you see others that don't have them.

I am a total geek and love 911s, so obviously take this with a pinch of salt, but I hope this helps. Porsche options are a minefield. I am rubbish, I seem to tick just about every option there is when I order a car.... Hence why I am waiting for the 992 GTS, otherwise I'll end up with a highly option C4S that will have lost a small fortune when the GTS arrives with many of the options included in the price!

Tom




Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 18th August 16:27

findtomdotcom

363 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
I added a few extras too. Storage (free), 911 badge (free) and colour wheel centres (£114).

http://www.porsche-code.com/PLV91U31

Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 18th August 16:39

Adam B

16,165 posts

199 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
findtomdotcom said:
Sports Chrono (SC). Well, it is a sports car..... The things that are not often talked about are the dynamic engine and gearbox mounts, they only come with SC. Not sure if its the same on the 992, but on the 991 you only got the better mounts with SC. My advice is, if you can afford it, get it. It is not only about the extra (10%) performance, which I'm not sure you will notice, it's about the engine mounts, the extra little detail in the cabin, (the clock, which some hate) and the little steering wheel selector dial. Yes, its a bit of a gimmick but it does add "something". Quite how you quantify that only you can answer.
Porsche must love you, your 911 geek is getting the better of you IMO.

the guy is trying to buy a base 911 with minimal spec which is the right idea to minimise depreciation.

How much is SC? How much are dynamic engine mounts and gearbox mounts on top? You make it sound like they are thrown in. You are recommending he spends money on SC to open the gateway to spending more on other options which will lose 80% of their value! hehe
Also where does SC improve performance by 10%?

80% of 911 buyers won’t have a clue what dynamic mounts are or what they do and the biggest handling test will be taking a roundabout at 30mph!

Edited by Adam B on Sunday 18th August 17:08

findtomdotcom

363 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Adam B said:
Porsche must love you, your 911 geek is getting the better of you IMO.

the guy is trying to buy a base 911 with minimal spec which is the right idea to minimise depreciation.

How much is SC? How much are dynamic engine mounts and gearbox mounts on top? You make it sound like they are thrown in. You are recommending he spends money on SC to open the gateway to spending more on other options which will lose 80% of their value! hehe
Also where does SC improve performance by 10%?
Yep they sure do. I am the first to admit I have an option addiction...... However, if you are buying a 911 and not one of the many other cars out there, I would suggest that missing out on an option like SC might be missing the point? But agreed, it's not necessary and the % benefit will be tiny, (0-60 5% aside, sorry missed the error in my original post, but the theory that you wouldn't notice the difference still holds). The mounts are only available with SC (£1646) and are "thrown in".

Maybe you are right and he won't want them, but I'm just offering my option. As for resale, I wouldn't buy a 911 without SC.

Tom

Edited by findtomdotcom on Sunday 18th August 17:27

arcamalpha

755 posts

109 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Sports chrono is only faster to 60 because of launch control. In the real world it offers no extra speed. Dynamic engine mounts are just something to go wrong.

I’d say rear wheel steer will be viewed as a must in years to come and has genuine benefits for driving in town because of the improved turning radius.

Personally I’d ditch the sunroof and just open the windows.

Edited by arcamalpha on Sunday 18th August 20:36

Adam B

16,165 posts

199 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
findtomdotcom said:
The mounts are only available with SC (£1646) and are "thrown in".

Maybe you are right and he won't want them, but I'm just offering my option. As for resale, I wouldn't buy a 911 without SC.
I stand corrected on the mounts then but £1600 is a lot and agreed no one will really feel the 0.2 secs or won’t fancy the clutch wear trying to find out, assume that 0.2 is gained usual launch control?

The thing is you won’t buy his car (and neither would I) but we and everyone on PH are a tiny minority of the 911 market.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a geek like you and love the fact some bloke specced crests on both the front and rear headrests on my Macan for continuity wobble

Edited by Adam B on Sunday 18th August 18:13

findtomdotcom

363 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
I think rear steer is a really good point, but more for that fact it adds something to the driving experience rather than it makes parking/turning easier. But if you have rear steer you should really also have SC... And there we go, we are already on the Porsche options merry-go-round...

Taffy66

2,675 posts

47 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
I've just sold my 992S Coupe and i have a 992S Cabriolet finally arriving in November(4 months delay)..On my Coupe i had a strict limit of keeping extra cost options to less than 10% of the basic list price..This was to minimise depreciation as it was only meant to be a short term keeper..On my Coupe i chose Aventurine Green(Great colour) with Sport plus seats in Black/Mojave leather..Must haves for resale IMO were BOSE,Folding mirrors,Auto dip mirrors and Cruise control.I also chose -10mm sport suspension,Black sport exhaust and SC but no PDCC or RAS.
Based on my Coupe i made the following changes to my Cabriolet..I switched to Sport tex seats with Crayon stitch to contrast with Gentian blue exterior..I saw no value in the Sports exhaust and dropped it in favour of the RAS which makes a big difference to the car's dynamics. Inside i picked Brushed aluminium trim as i though the free plastic looked cheap in a £100K car,This all adds less than 10% to the basic list price which is important to limit depreciation IMO..
On a basic non S 992 Coupe i'd still keep options to less than 10% of list price..I'd go with either of the standard colours like Guards which is a personal choice..I'd have Sport plus seats so i could get Sport tex trim with Crayon stitching..Add some other value options but keep the whole options to less than 10% as i've done..

AndorranPhil

5 posts

1 month

Sunday 18th August
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Taffy66 said:
and Cruise control................
News to me that Cruise Control was an option. It came as standard on my 992.

worldwidewebs

1,070 posts

195 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Regarding the seats, I have the 4 ways with Sport-tex in my 991 T and I love them. If I was ordering another car today I'd get the Sport-tex in a heartbeat - warm in winter, cool in summer, have a really nice feel to them and quite 'grippy'. I can't tell you what you should get but I've yet to speak to anyone who has Sport-tex and regrets the choice

worldwidewebs

1,070 posts

195 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Also, I agree with the comments above regarding coloured seat belts and contrast stitching

Personally, I'd kill the lane change assist and put it towards the leather pack

Taffy66

2,675 posts

47 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
AndorranPhil said:
News to me that Cruise Control was an option. It came as standard on my 992.
My mistake..Its standard on 992..I mixed up with my 991.2GT3 RS .

mw300

Original Poster:

11 posts

31 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Thank you everyone for the comprehensive replies so far, what a great community!

A 911 is a classic (despite getting heavier lately) and I am looking to capture the essence of it being both a sports car and a useable reliable daily driver. It’s like a stainless steel Rolex submariner without date instead of a two tone or gold model. There are faster or more luxurious cars and I could afford an S or GTS but don’t like to spend money unnecessarily when the base car is so similar.

Comments have helped me draw the following conclusions so far:

1. Sports Chrono: if it is just faster due to launch control rather than different mappings in sports mode I’m convinced it’s unnecessary. Never used launch control in my S3 either. The clock is just clutter to me.

2. Red seat belts is something I’ve toyed with but thought too garish. On further thought, it’s a great way to make the interior more special without spending a ton of money. Will spec them, just need to avoid pink shirts from now on.

Not convinced on the following:
- Crayon stitching: saw it at the dealer but it looks quite uneven and draws too much attention to itself. The black one is more subtle but still shows that it’s a special car. It’s very personal of course but less is more to my eye. Red would be nice but it’s an absurdly expensive option.
- Aluminium trim: agree it looks nicer but £750 is a lot and feels like falling into the options trap, especially considering the shiny black trim around the PDK lever would remain. I’d pay to get rid of that shiny trim which will need constant cleaning but not an option unfortunately.
- GT steering wheel: it obstructs the outer dials more hence my reluctance to spec it.
- Glass sunroof: I was convinced the glass roof would be much nicer as was expecting it to be lighter inside and that I’d end up choosing it despite the looks. However, I tried 10 times to raise and lower the internal blind on a test drive and surprisingly didn’t notice any difference in internal light levels. The salesman must have thought I am OCD. Maybe it’s different in winter when light levels are lower but I wasn’t convinced. Most of my cars so far were cabs but don’t like the shape of the 992 cab and thought a coupe with sunroof would give me almost the same feeling with lower depreciation/cost and better performance/security.
- Coloured wheel crests: £114 is not a lot of money but it’s still money down the drain, the options trap again.
- Wheels: I think 19/20 is plenty big and makes the ride less harsh. They look good to me so don’t think it will impact depreciation significantly. Upgrade is over £1000
- Lane change assist: Maybe I’m not that great a driver but had a few instances where I nearly missed someone in my blind spot so it seems like a good option. It’s expensive but finding it useful on my current car. Remember I’m mainly driving in town with lots of traffic everywhere.

Remaining questions:
- Reversing camera: it’s the one thing I regretted not ordering on my S3 but haven’t actually tried parking the 992 during the test drive. Any more views on it? Read somewhere the image is quite distorted but spending £1000 on the surround view seems a bit over the top.
- BOSE: has anyone actually compared the standard system with BOSE side by side? I didn’t think BOSE was that great on the test drive (very bass-heavy despite the neutral setting) and there’s a lot of road noise anyway so cars aren’t the best place to listen to music unless it’s a double glazed Mercedes S-class
- Sports-tex vs. Ventilated leather: Opinions so far seem to vary on resale and how cool the Sports-tex is in summer. Would appreciate more views from anyone who specced sports tex on a 992. Somehow feels like the most difficult question. First world problems!

Edited by mw300 on Sunday 18th August 20:38

kev.RS

210 posts

152 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
Personally I would go for the bigger wheels option as I think that the rest of the things you I.e PSE can be retrofitted for a couple of £k but as the ‘S’ wheels are only £1145 I think it would help on the residual side of things when you come to sell as the cost of buying a set of 20/21 wheels would be at least £5k so seems a relative bargain at £1145.


Taffy66

2,675 posts

47 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
kev.RS said:
Personally I would go for the bigger wheels option as I think that the rest of the things you I.e PSE can be retrofitted for a couple of £k but as the ‘S’ wheels are only £1145 I think it would help on the residual side of things when you come to sell as the cost of buying a set of 20/21 wheels would be at least £5k so seems a relative bargain at £1145.
I agree with you but personally i'd go with the better looking Classic wheels..I've also just noticed that PDCC,RAS,-10mm SS are not available on the basic 992..I also dislike the basic 992's square exhaust tips..I'd go with the Sports ex in complete contrast with the 992S where i prefer the standard 4 pipe exhaust.

findtomdotcom

363 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
mw300 said:
Comments have helped me draw the following conclusions so far:

1. Sports Chrono: if it is just faster due to launch control rather than different mappings in sports mode I’m convinced it’s unnecessary. Never used launch control in my S3 either. The clock is just clutter to me.

Remaining questions:
- Reversing camera: it’s the one thing I regretted not ordering on my S3 but haven’t actually tried parking the 992 during the test drive. Any more views on it? Read somewhere the image is quite distorted but spending £1000 on the surround view seems a bit over the top.
- BOSE: has anyone actually compared the standard system with BOSE side by side? I didn’t think BOSE was that great on the test drive (very bass-heavy despite the neutral setting) and there’s a lot of road noise anyway so cars aren’t the best place to listen to music unless it’s a double glazed Mercedes S-class
SC, the sales pitch is that it makes the car faster, but my point is, I think it adds feel which is far more important. So in answer to your question, it's not just about launch control, it is the engine mounts you are paying for and will make the car better, (in my slightly biassed opinion by a tiny %). Please don't write it off just for the silly marketing .2 of a second to 60.

The reversing camera is distorted and not worth the money. The standard sensors are perfect fine for avoiding hitting anything when parking, save the money.
BOSE, heard them all in 991 and 992. I am really into music and will spend the extra for clarity. It is hard to deny there is too much road noise in a 911 to really justify Burmester. Bose however, I think is worth it and will definitely add to resale.

Adam B

16,165 posts

199 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
LCA is very useful for blind slots I find

The reversing camera I still haven't got used to and tend not to look at, the sensors are more than enough but seems to be popular

Surround cam sounds really good as it gives you a view of alloys vs kerbs

mw300

Original Poster:

11 posts

31 months

Sunday 18th August
quotequote all
I hadn’t thought about the incremental cost of upgrading wheels now vs. later and the impact on depreciation. Good point, thank you kev.RS and Taffy. Just not sure how undesirable the current wheels are and if the ride will be worse with bigger wheels. 20/21 is huge (perhaps silly looking) and the base wheels don’t look bad unlike some of the ugly ones that came on previous 911s