997 GTS to V12 Vantage - Talk me out of it

[joinery80]

Make sure you let us know your thoughts mate.
Like I said if you can find one with the carbon seats and one with standards that would be ideal

[Cheib]

Be very interested in how you get on OP! Let’s face it how many open top V12 sports cars are there with a manual gearbox.

[franki68]

c4sman said:

Thanks for the above, and to all the other responses. As I do so few miles the above is why I think the V12V might tick the box. Also as the roads get more speed cameras and restrictive, I feel less inclined to enjoy the agility and capabilities of a Porsche, so something that is less dynamically capable doesn’t terrify me (although I got a huge buzz when I took my car around the PEC at silverstone ).

I deliberately asked this on a Porsche forum, as I wanted the views from people who understand the Porsche brand as well as I think I do having owned 6 of their sports cars I’ve the last 14 years. I know the answers might be biased and so am I, but actually the debate on here seems well balanced.

I now need to find a suitable car to drive and feedback on next steps.

The ‘s’ is worth the extra if you want to spend it,much better traction I thought .

[joinery80]

Yes be careful in the V12v when tyres are cold 😡

[n12maser]

agree on the carbon seats, very comfortable and add to sense of occasion.

[Terminator X]

joinery80 said:

Yes be careful in the V12v when tyres are cold ??

Didn't CH comment that the car is trying to kill you at every opportunity?!

TX.

[joinery80]

Lol only until tyres warm up

[Gandahar]

c4sman said:

I've owned my 997 GTS for 5+ years (RWD Manual Coupe on centre locks with 24k miles and full OPC history) and loved every minute of it and still do. The problem is with the other cars in the stable it is only doing sub 1500 mile per year and seems just a little too "usable" and practical for such low mileage. I use an E93 for family trips and an ecoboost fiesta to get to the station.

Nice selection of cars! This is not as interesting as your main question but as a driving enthusiast how do you rate the Fiesta? I assume it is the 1.0 triple? I use a small car for dog walks and heard good things about how they drive. Also superchips do a conversion from 100 to 140bhp which is cheap to do and would make a small car quite sprightly.

Good luck with decision on the potential V12 move. The 997 GTS has always had glowing reports, but if you are not using it much perhaps a V12 and great looks are more of a thing to savour on the weekend, ie more of a difference to your other two good cars.

[CraigV12V]

Just selling my V12S Vantage Roadster here; https://is.gd/uLQ7uZ

Had it 3 years, a V12V coupe before that for a couple of years and a 4.3 V8V before that for about 9 months.

V8 was underpowered, the V12V was quick but the latter Roadster benefitted from a Bamford Rose decat, stainless steel exhaust and manifold, and 200 cell secondary cat. On dyno it came out at c. 615BHP at flywheel, so really quick and a hell of a noise.

I had a heck of a trip around the Alps and Pyrenees this summer with PetrolHead tours redlining it up and down mountains and it never missed a beat. In fact all 3 cars never had any serious issues while I owned them so they certainly are not unreliable and that is the feedback I get from Aston owners whenever I meet them.

The only thing that kept growing in my mirrors this summer around the mountains of Europe was a Turbo S. Whilst I cannot speak as yet as to the handling characteristics of the Vantage compared to a Porsche, to me it did feel heavy and I am sure a lighter car without that huge lump in the front would be easier to wrestle through canyons and hairpins.

Frankly I am not selling because I disliked the Aston, far from it, but I think I need to try some other brands and in terms of mountain hooning I think the 911 is probably the best tool for the job.

V12V’s are great fun, the noise is incredible especially with roof off going up mountains with sheer rock walls on one side. I will miss that. Most people I drive with don’t try and drive their cars to the max and as such the Vantage’s failings will not be apparent to most.

The Sportshift gear box is frankly a bit agricultural albeit quite good fun when pushed but clunky when slow and coming to a stop. I won’t miss that.
The good news about an Aston is of course they will let you buy a new one, any one you want pretty much. I would buy a new GT3 RS if it were possible. I may just wait for the € to come back up to c. 1.25 and then buy a left hander from Europe. In the meanwhile I will buy a 991.2 GT3 (obviously second hand) or a Turbo S (possibly new). Still on the fence which way to go.

[cypriot]

Coming from a few porkers and more recently a lotus evora 400, I have recently stepped into a v8 vantage AMR (basically an "S" with with nice colours!). I immediately took it to scotland and did the Cairngorms and the NC500 in the vantage, and I was really really impressed. Yes, it feels heavier than a Porsche, but then the car feels much more old-school and tactile than the modern porkers ever did. Anyone claiming that the newer vantages, either the v8s or v12s, are dynamically crap are simply wrong. They just don't like the front engined layout compared to the rear-engines porsches. I came from the evora which dynamically destroys a 997, and yet I do not find the vantage lacking. It is simply a different experience - if you go into the test drive thinking the vantage will feel nimble, don't bother. I have also driven the 7-speed manual v12 vantage, and can confirm they are awesome. Chris Harris also agrees, even comparing them to the 911r. There is a PHer who has one and a Carrera GT, and he loves his v12 vantage - so it can't be too shabby!

Both great choices the 997GTS and the v12 vantage... don't listen to the negativity and test drive the vantage.

[joinery80]

[joinery80]

Here are the carbon seats really comfortable and like someone said add to the character

[Slippydiff]

Love the colour, liking the seats themselves too

[joinery80]

Thanks slippydiff I haven't seen another the same most are black interiors with the standard seats

[c4sman]

Gandahar said:

Nice selection of cars! This is not as interesting as your main question but as a driving enthusiast how do you rate the Fiesta? I assume it is the 1.0 triple? I use a small car for dog walks and heard good things about how they drive. Also superchips do a conversion from 100 to 140bhp which is cheap to do and would make a small car quite sprightly.

Good luck with decision on the potential V12 move. The 997 GTS has always had glowing reports, but if you are not using it much perhaps a V12 and great looks are more of a thing to savour on the weekend, ie more of a difference to your other two good cars.

Thanks Gandahar, the fiesta is a 2016 triple and the 100bhp version (the higher spec one is 125bhp). I think they are epic small and economic cars. Very refined, light and agile with a super sticky front end (haven’t managed to push into understeer in the wet or dry although I’m not tying tooooo hard on the way to the station!). Revealed to me that the millions of people driving these around that I see every day aren’t missing out on a decent drive! Recommend them. Be careful with the chip to 140 as I hear the 125 has a bigger turbo than the 100 so might be pushing too hard in the lower powered car. I find the 100 just fine for what it is as there’s plenty of torque above 2k rpm and I average 50mpg even though it only does short trips. Anyway, back to V12s

[c4sman]

cypriot said:

Coming from a few porkers and more recently a lotus evora 400, I have recently stepped into a v8 vantage AMR (basically an "S" with with nice colours!). I immediately took it to scotland and did the Cairngorms and the NC500 in the vantage, and I was really really impressed. Yes, it feels heavier than a Porsche, but then the car feels much more old-school and tactile than the modern porkers ever did. Anyone claiming that the newer vantages, either the v8s or v12s, are dynamically crap are simply wrong. They just don't like the front engined layout compared to the rear-engines porsches. I came from the evora which dynamically destroys a 997, and yet I do not find the vantage lacking. It is simply a different experience - if you go into the test drive thinking the vantage will feel nimble, don't bother. I have also driven the 7-speed manual v12 vantage, and can confirm they are awesome. Chris Harris also agrees, even comparing them to the 911r. There is a PHer who has one and a Carrera GT, and he loves his v12 vantage - so it can't be too shabby!

Both great choices the 997GTS and the v12 vantage... don't listen to the negativity and test drive the vantage.

Thanks for the feedback. I have found a potential candidate and test driving it at the weekend if it’s still for sale.

On the heavy car thing my E93 is an M3 with the V8 and although cars rarely come more lardy than that, I can still have fun in it as the chassis is fundamentally a good one (just carrying a little too much weight). My GTS is a nice contrast to the M3 but both still fun.

[Big E 118]

c4sman said:

On the heavy car thing my E93 is an M3 with the V8 and although cars rarely come more lardy than that, I can still have fun in it as the chassis is fundamentally a good one (just carrying a little too much weight). My GTS is a nice contrast to the M3 but both still fun.

I posted some comments earlier on my change from 997 GTS to Vantage (although V8), I've also had a couple of E92 M3's and the Vantage although feeling heavier than a GTS has way better turn in and balance than the M3 which is a good car in it's own right.

A couple of things to note if you test drive a Vantage. My car had the OEM Bridgestone tyres on it when I bought it, the first thing I did was change out to a better tyre (Conti SC 5's as PS4S's are not available in the right sizes) and they made a massive improvement.

Also the Vantage has the engine placed really far back (behind the front axle in the V8) and you sit on the rear axle so the difference if feel between a 911 is worlds apart. It feels like you're steering an oil tanker with all that real estate in front! It does take some getting used to.

[c4sman]

Big E 118 said:

I posted some comments earlier on my change from 997 GTS to Vantage (although V8), I've also had a couple of E92 M3's and the Vantage although feeling heavier than a GTS has way better turn in and balance than the M3 which is a good car in it's own right.

A couple of things to note if you test drive a Vantage. My car had the OEM Bridgestone tyres on it when I bought it, the first thing I did was change out to a better tyre (Conti SC 5's as PS4S's are not available in the right sizes) and they made a massive improvement.

Also the Vantage has the engine placed really far back (behind the front axle in the V8) and you sit on the rear axle so the difference if feel between a 911 is worlds apart. It feels like you're steering an oil tanker with all that real estate in front! It does take some getting used to.

Yes read your comments, thanks, I will bear what you said in mind. Hopefully I get decent seat time to separate “different” from “bad”.

[Gandahar]

c4sman said:

Gandahar said:

Nice selection of cars! This is not as interesting as your main question but as a driving enthusiast how do you rate the Fiesta? I assume it is the 1.0 triple? I use a small car for dog walks and heard good things about how they drive. Also superchips do a conversion from 100 to 140bhp which is cheap to do and would make a small car quite sprightly.

Good luck with decision on the potential V12 move. The 997 GTS has always had glowing reports, but if you are not using it much perhaps a V12 and great looks are more of a thing to savour on the weekend, ie more of a difference to your other two good cars.

Thanks Gandahar, the fiesta is a 2016 triple and the 100bhp version (the higher spec one is 125bhp). I think they are epic small and economic cars. Very refined, light and agile with a super sticky front end (haven’t managed to push into understeer in the wet or dry although I’m not tying tooooo hard on the way to the station!). Revealed to me that the millions of people driving these around that I see every day aren’t missing out on a decent drive! Recommend them. Be careful with the chip to 140 as I hear the 125 has a bigger turbo than the 100 so might be pushing too hard in the lower powered car. I find the 100 just fine for what it is as there’s plenty of torque above 2k rpm and I average 50mpg even though it only does short trips. Anyway, back to V12s

Thanks for that, appreciate time taken for the summary , agree back to more important matters ,,,,

[DJMC]

Gandahar said:

Thanks for that, appreciate time taken for the summary , agree back to more important matters ,,,,

...but... this brought to mind a throwaway comment from a Car magazine journalist back in July 2016. I'd been invited to test the then new 718S in comparison to my 981. One of the journos arrived in this Fiesta...



When I asked him about it he said "It's the best car I've ever driven." Thinking he was taking the P I laughed but he didn't. He explained that is was the most rounded, most fun, most sorted overall package he'd ever experienced. Better than any supercar he'd driven. There must be a fuller explanation as to why, but his comments stuck with me. I've never driven one or been inclined to. But maybe it IS a hidden gem?



PS Just found this strangely similar car on test: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/ford/for...

Edited by DJMC on Wednesday 11th September 11:17