997 GTS to V12 Vantage - Talk me out of it

997 GTS to V12 Vantage - Talk me out of it

Author
Discussion

c4sman

Original Poster:

561 posts

99 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Think the ST would be epic based on my base model (zetec I think)

Cheib

16,778 posts

120 months

Wednesday 11th September
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Funnily enough I was listening to Chris Harris’s Collecting Cars Podcast earlier.....the best car he’s ever driven if the original 1.8 Focus. Said it was just so far ahead of the competition at the time and blew him away. All about context. One of the things I always think about my E46 M3....when I bought that back in 2002 it was just miles ahead of the competition nothing from Audi or Mercedes was close to it.

madcal

273 posts

82 months

Wednesday 11th September
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As I get older I am looking for character in a car.

I had a 991 GTS for a year, one of the cheapest cars I ever owned (bought with 2k miles for £96k, sold with 9k miles for £92k a year later). I sold it because despite how accomplished it was I got quite bored.

I had a 488 GTB for a year from new, was not so cheap to own, did 5,000 miles, amazing to drive but again no real character.

Both were very easy to drive extremely fast, the 488 even more so.

The 911 was very anonymous, rarely got a second glance.

In the 488 you had to get used to lots of attention, camera phones, everyone asking you first “What do you do?”, then asking if they could photograph it or sit in it. Was fun for the first week then got a bit much for me.

The V12S Manual I have however is hard to drive fast, you have to work the gearbox from standstill (once you are at 30 you can leave it in 3rd until 90 if you feel mad, or put it in 4th from 30 to mad speeds). It seems to want to kill me if we are going fast on a bumpy road. In corners the 488 or GTS were better but again working on the combination of gear, throttle, steering and braking right is much more fun than leaving it up to Maranello’s latest software engineer.

Finally the attention you get on the road in the Vantage is different, more subdued, people are interested in the car not in what you did to earn the money to get it.

I would not go back, I may buy another 911 as a daily to drive into London but would keep the Vantage for fun at weekends and road-trips.

I would talk you into it, not out of it!

DJMC

2,499 posts

48 months

Wednesday 11th September
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In the same vein as the Fiesta perhaps, I can recently recall having brief fun in 1.8 TT and 1.2 A1 courtesy cars as they seemed fast and frantic whilst still keeping inside the law.

Longer term fun was had in my 60's mini, 70's Capri 1600GT, 80's E30 BMW, 90's E46 325i; and 00's E46 330ci cab. My 981 only just pips any of these for overall enjoyment but is too fast for "fun".

How anyone can cope with using a tiny fraction of a supercar's power is beyond me. It must be for show, ego, aesthetics rather than driving enjoyment.

I'm thinking the next car I buy will have less power so as to have more fun.

c4sman

Original Poster:

561 posts

99 months

Thursday 12th September
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madcal said:
As I get older I am looking for character in a car.

I had a 991 GTS for a year, one of the cheapest cars I ever owned (bought with 2k miles for £96k, sold with 9k miles for £92k a year later). I sold it because despite how accomplished it was I got quite bored.

I had a 488 GTB for a year from new, was not so cheap to own, did 5,000 miles, amazing to drive but again no real character.

Both were very easy to drive extremely fast, the 488 even more so.

The 911 was very anonymous, rarely got a second glance.

In the 488 you had to get used to lots of attention, camera phones, everyone asking you first “What do you do?”, then asking if they could photograph it or sit in it. Was fun for the first week then got a bit much for me.

The V12S Manual I have however is hard to drive fast, you have to work the gearbox from standstill (once you are at 30 you can leave it in 3rd until 90 if you feel mad, or put it in 4th from 30 to mad speeds). It seems to want to kill me if we are going fast on a bumpy road. In corners the 488 or GTS were better but again working on the combination of gear, throttle, steering and braking right is much more fun than leaving it up to Maranello’s latest software engineer.

Finally the attention you get on the road in the Vantage is different, more subdued, people are interested in the car not in what you did to earn the money to get it.

I would not go back, I may buy another 911 as a daily to drive into London but would keep the Vantage for fun at weekends and road-trips.

I would talk you into it, not out of it!
Thanks for the insight, and very interesting. The only difference with me personally may be that the 997 GTS is no where as polished as the 991 version. Having had a 24 hour test drive in the 991 GTS I came away feeling that it was hugely impressive but dull compared to the small, loud and more interactive 997. My GTS felt very old school when I got back in it, but I loved that feeling. Will see how I get on!

stormblack

72 posts

49 months

Thursday 12th September
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FWIW I can hopefully give you some insight as I own a 2008 Gen 1.5 997 Turbo manual and a 2013 6 speed manual V12V.

The V12V is a real event, I get people letting me out at junctions and occasionally people asking me questions about it when I park it up. The noise and surge of power is quite intoxicating and I never get bored of driving it. As stated my V12V was one of the last ones made so it's screwed together well, no issues, handling is excellent and the manual shift is great. The infotainment system is dated but you don't buy this car for that.

Don't make the mistake of buying a V12VS with an automated box (pants- I drove one, not a good experience. I also drove a 7 speed- couldn't get used to the dog leg set up)- The 6 speed one is the way to go. Servicing costs aren't that horrendous but then again I don't put big miles on her. Also the light weight seats are great as has been mentioned before on this thread.

The 911 Turbo is just pure teutonic German engineering- it does everything so efficiently and is quite "anonymous" - I don't have to worry about where I park it. I suspect your 997 GTS is a more involving drive. However the Turbo ballistic missile, the straight line surge beats the Aston (but only just)

I think in terms of the V12V- get one whilst they're relatively cheap. It's definitely a buyers market at the moment which has been reflected in the fall in price of what I think is a great car. try and get a '12 or '13 year one if you can.

SHIFTY

515 posts

181 months

Thursday 12th September
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After 6 years of owning various Porsches, I am back to owning an Aston Martin.

It was the Porsche that got me into automatic cars, previous to this every car that I had owned were all manual, now I prefer automatics and use the paddles to change gear. The Porsches do everything very well have all of the bits you need, but as mentioned previously can get a bit boring.

I tried the V12 Vantage (automated manual) and it very clunky even when lifting off the gas when changing gear, so now have a Vanquish with automated 8 speed.

I have had the AM for 2 weeks and had many nice comments wherby none when I had Porsche's and AM drivers flash each other, something that I tried with the Porsche but soon gave up as no one responded back.


notsomadmick

125 posts

105 months

Thursday 12th September
quotequote all
DJMC said:
In the same vein as the Fiesta perhaps, I can recently recall having brief fun in 1.8 TT and 1.2 A1 courtesy cars as they seemed fast and frantic whilst still keeping inside the law.

Longer term fun was had in my 60's mini, 70's Capri 1600GT, 80's E30 BMW, 90's E46 325i; and 00's E46 330ci cab. My 981 only just pips any of these for overall enjoyment but is too fast for "fun".

How anyone can cope with using a tiny fraction of a supercar's power is beyond me. It must be for show, ego, aesthetics rather than driving enjoyment.

I'm thinking the next car I buy will have less power so as to have more fun.
You make a fair point here:
I understand what you are getting at; because my earlier cars started with Minis / XR3 / Golf GTI etc.
In fact, it took a while to let my Mk 1 GTI go - for my first Boxster - because I wasn't sure at first which was actually more fun.
"£ for £" the Golf was miles better. But since I could afford the Boxster without too much stress, I felt it had the edge re fun-factor.

All I would say is that - depending on where you live - and as long as you are not being stupid - there is still fun to be had with more powerful cars.
I do agree it becomes more challenging chasing the red line with cars much over - say 300hp.
So for me, handling is key - and Porsche does this bit very well...
And yes I like where you sit... how they look... and how they sound...

And I take pleasure in knowing how lucky I am to have one...

'Fun' is an equation that includes several factors.

c4sman

Original Poster:

561 posts

99 months

Thursday 12th September
quotequote all
stormblack said:
FWIW I can hopefully give you some insight as I own a 2008 Gen 1.5 997 Turbo manual and a 2013 6 speed manual V12V.

The V12V is a real event, I get people letting me out at junctions and occasionally people asking me questions about it when I park it up. The noise and surge of power is quite intoxicating and I never get bored of driving it. As stated my V12V was one of the last ones made so it's screwed together well, no issues, handling is excellent and the manual shift is great. The infotainment system is dated but you don't buy this car for that.

Don't make the mistake of buying a V12VS with an automated box (pants- I drove one, not a good experience. I also drove a 7 speed- couldn't get used to the dog leg set up)- The 6 speed one is the way to go. Servicing costs aren't that horrendous but then again I don't put big miles on her. Also the light weight seats are great as has been mentioned before on this thread.

The 911 Turbo is just pure teutonic German engineering- it does everything so efficiently and is quite "anonymous" - I don't have to worry about where I park it. I suspect your 997 GTS is a more involving drive. However the Turbo ballistic missile, the straight line surge beats the Aston (but only just)

I think in terms of the V12V- get one whilst they're relatively cheap. It's definitely a buyers market at the moment which has been reflected in the fall in price of what I think is a great car. try and get a '12 or '13 year one if you can.
Great advice/feedback. I have run a 997turbo coupe and then a turbo cab and found the speed amazing but the involvement very poor which led me to the GTS which has stuck for a long time. It is much more interesting and “feelsome” at sensible speeds than the Turbo so the gap may not be as big to the V12V on that aspect. Equally it’s not as much an event as my Granturismo GTS I had but makes up for that with the dynamics. Might be a difficult decision!

joinery80

312 posts

67 months

Thursday 12th September
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I had a grandtourismo gts for a while before the aston I actually loved it and it made a great noise.

joinery80

312 posts

67 months

Thursday 12th September
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I had a grandtourismo gts for a while before the aston I actually loved it and it made a great noise.

baconsarney

9,052 posts

106 months

Thursday 12th September
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Great thread! Contributions are clearly from experienced enthusiasts smile
Holds a particular interest for me too.. I’ve never owned a 911 although nearly went for a 996tt some years back, stopped only by house purchase! Porsche is still an itch to scratch, but in last 12 months I’ve been lusting after a V12V.... just need to stop prevaricating.. keep up the great posts chaps smile

notsomadmick

125 posts

105 months

Thursday 12th September
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baconsarney said:
Great thread! Contributions are clearly from experienced enthusiasts smile
Holds a particular interest for me too.. I’ve never owned a 911 although nearly went for a 996tt some years back, stopped only by house purchase! Porsche is still an itch to scratch, but in last 12 months I’ve been lusting after a V12V.... just need to stop prevaricating.. keep up the great posts chaps smile
Bottom line: Don't sell the GTS until you are sure.

BlackWidow13

4 posts

Thursday 12th September
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I have a V12VS. One car before that I had a 996 turbo. My thoughts:

The 996 was a pretty amazing car in many ways. The jump-to-hyperspace acceleration never got old. Being able to more or less ignore the weather and road conditions was quite fun. In the end I got shot of it for the same reason I liked it initially: it is incredibly capable in every conceivable circumstance. It’s just a bit boring for that.

I also wasn’t hugely impressed with the build quality (the doors shut with a rather tinny noise IMO); the ride was an osteopath’s pension fund, and the engine note was terrible.

The AM is brutally fast. Once you get it off the line. I have the Pirelli P Zeros (not the Corsas, because we have rain in this country) and I don’t rate them. I can get wheel spin in fourth on a dry day with warm tyres. Getting it off the line without it squirming is a proper challenge. But by Christ it shifts. Friends have described it as savage, brutal, raw. These are friends who found the Porsche's acceleration hilarious. They seem to be made a lot more anxious by the AM, and don’t generally burst out laughing.

The AM has a far more supple ride; it’s great looking; much more admired on the road (I genuinely think I’ve had more people pull into L2 on the motorway with it than any other car); build quality (so far) and finish is brilliant. The ceramic brakes are other worldly when you really call upon them.

I’ve not pushed it really hard on twisties and I haven’t tracked it. It has stepped out once or twice on wet roads and I’ve been able to catch it easily. That says more about it (progressive) than my skillz.

It’s a real sense of occasion car, there’s no doubt about it. I would sometimes look at the Porsche but I catch myself staring at the AM.

The pre-S V12 has a reputation for being a bit of hairy chested beast. Analogue+++: stay on your toes or it will spit you out. You might want to bear that in mind. I don’t think it has switchable suspension setting either (might be wrong about that though). Pedal weights are supposed to be typically Aston-heavy. I’ve sat in a manual V12 in a showroom and for me the gearstick isn’t quite in the right place. Too far back. That might have bugged me, but as it happened I didn’t have the pockets for a manual V12VS.

ETA: I was able to get into a V12VS with the revised dash. I have Apple CarPlay in mine which is excellent. A choice of Satnavs (incl AM’s VG 3D effort and Waze for the speed cameras).

The debate over whether SportShift III is good bad or indifferent is a thread or two in its own right. Lots of views about that on the Internet. It took me about 500 miles to get to grips with the SSIII box. I thought it adequate on first acquaintance, whereas I think it’s fantastic now. I’d be wary of views that are based on limited usage. It takes some figuring out.

Edited by BlackWidow13 on Thursday 12th September 17:21

CraigV12V

292 posts

98 months

Thursday 12th September
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I should have mentioned the Aston effect. Whilst driving through France and Spain with some other exotic cars it was uncanny when I arrived on the tail of slower cars how often they pulled over/slowed down to let me pass. Whether it was the Flug Platz blue colour or the fact it was a AM Vantage I don't know, I have kind of gotten used to it, others pointed it out to me as they would have to hang on behind traffic for bend after bend.

But being a bright blue Aston also meant me and a grey ordinary looking (but plenty quick and nimble) M2 overtook a camper van coming from Andorra down some epic roads and it was me that got pulled over in the next village (unhappy camper belled the rozzers), the M2 tooddled off and waited for me to take a roasting in Spanish.

Good job they didn't check the boot, blimey booze is cheap in Andorra!


Cheib

16,778 posts

120 months

Thursday 12th September
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This is a great thread....really useful input from lots of people!

Big E 118

2,243 posts

114 months

Friday 13th September
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OP, have you considered modifying the GTS to freshen it up rather than selling?

The GTS has a rather conservative set up, I fitted lowering springs and had a more agressive geo set up and it really transformed the car into something more focussed and direct. Parr set mine up but I believe Centre Gravity will do a similar thing.

I had a couple of professional drivers try mine and they were quite surprised with the improvement in front end grip and overall balance over a standard set up car.

Cheib

16,778 posts

120 months

Friday 13th September
quotequote all
Big E 118 said:
OP, have you considered modifying the GTS to freshen it up rather than selling?

The GTS has a rather conservative set up, I fitted lowering springs and had a more agressive geo set up and it really transformed the car into something more focussed and direct. Parr set mine up but I believe Centre Gravity will do a similar thing.

I had a couple of professional drivers try mine and they were quite surprised with the improvement in front end grip and overall balance over a standard set up car.
Tell us more ! What did that do to the ride on country lames/B roads ? I know lowering doesn’t always equate to worse ride quality...depends on which suspension set ups you use ?

andyvvc

32 posts

88 months

Friday 13th September
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I jumped from a 996T into a 2008MY V8 Vantage recently.

As others have said, the Aston is far more of an all-round 'event' each time I drive it. The noise. The interior. The 700w sound system. The look of the car. Other drivers appreciation of 'Astons' etc etc

The V8 needs to be thrashed to get the best from it. It's obviously down on power compared to the 996T. And the V8 delivery if so linear it almost feels tranquil when accelerating hard (ie no shove of torque from a pair of turbos). It obviously doesn't sound tranquil though - especially with the bypass-fuse remove to keep the valves in the exhaust open smile

Unless the 997 cabin and overall asthetic is a lot better than the 996, I would assume the V12V will feel far more impressive to own and drive in. Straight line speed of the V12V surely surpasses a 997GTS?

Also worth noting that the V8V is no wider than my 996T was. And is actually a little shorter lol. So i would be surprised if you felt the V12V was barge like or too big.

I don't regret the swap.... but i do miss the sledgehammer acceleration of the 996T.

Bugger . . . I should have bought the V12! smile


joinery80

312 posts

67 months

Friday 13th September
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Regarding performance the gts would get to 60 quicker every time easy.
When the 12 gets into its stride it would praps walk away tho