997 GTS to V12 Vantage - Talk me out of it
Discussion
I think the GTS is plenty quick enough in a straight line and that’s not what a change would be about. My car has a couple of reversible bolt ons in a TPC PASM module and sharkwerks bypass to spice it up a bit. Not sure I’d want to play much more with suspension other than geo as it feels sharp and supple as it is, and I love that I don’t have to worry about the front spoiler grounding out in car parks so not that keen on lowering it. Everything should be put in context after tomorrow in any case!
As mentioned the Aston is a different experience to the GTS, you will need to tune into a different driving style. The Porsche gets better the harder you push it, the Aston is more fun at 7/10ths it’s weight distribution means it flows beautifully along a twisting road, but don’t try and drive it like the GTS. Do take a long test drive on varied roads. Do take the rear parcel shelf out and lay it in the boot for extra V12 soundtrack, ask if fuse 22 or 15 has been removed (depending on model year) to allow the exhaust flaps to be open all the time. You will feel the positivity from other drivers, people love the brand.
I love 911’s, ultimately they are the better out and out driving machines, but it really does work to swap between the brands so you get a new experience, and Aston ownership is a very special thing!
Ideally you will want the 700 watt Premium audio and Garmin sat-nav (Oct11 +) and a few other bits, for the full brief see my profile
Edited to add - be sure to get a written condition report on the CCM brakes specifically, they are fabulous stoppers (with no brake dust) and have proved to last very well, but they are very expensive to replace and warranty regards them as consumables (so they aren’t usually covered) which is why a condition/wear check is important... hope you have a good test drive
I love 911’s, ultimately they are the better out and out driving machines, but it really does work to swap between the brands so you get a new experience, and Aston ownership is a very special thing!
Ideally you will want the 700 watt Premium audio and Garmin sat-nav (Oct11 +) and a few other bits, for the full brief see my profile
Edited to add - be sure to get a written condition report on the CCM brakes specifically, they are fabulous stoppers (with no brake dust) and have proved to last very well, but they are very expensive to replace and warranty regards them as consumables (so they aren’t usually covered) which is why a condition/wear check is important... hope you have a good test drive
Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 14th September 10:50
The engine is epic both in the way it performs and the noise it makes .
I’d pay attention to the clutch as well ,I had a dbs which has the same gearbox/clutch/engine and it needed a new clutch at 30k ,there is a test you can do which gives you an early warning but I’ve forgotten what it was I’m afraid .
I’d pay attention to the clutch as well ,I had a dbs which has the same gearbox/clutch/engine and it needed a new clutch at 30k ,there is a test you can do which gives you an early warning but I’ve forgotten what it was I’m afraid .
So. I’ve baffled myself!
First a disclaimer
I couldn’t easily arrange a test drive of an earlier manual that I think I would want to buy so drove a low mileage high spec V12V S auto which was in immaculate and stunning condition.
I fell in love with the looks, agreed high level numbers (fair price and transaction options for the GTS) and had almost convinced myself to buy it anyway as it seemed it could be “the one” BEFORE the test drive.
The drive
Epic torque, amazing sound, stunning interior, ballistic performance without even wringing it out.
But ...I felt strangely disappointed! It felt heavy (expected) but not agile even in the way I remembered the bus that was my Granturismo.
Went and stopped well, but didn’t give me a the “special” feeling I expected but I can’t articulate what I expected. The gearbox was similar to the Maz and was fine once you finessed it (but also confirmed I didn’t want it) but it was more about a lack of the drama I convinced myself I would experience. I’m a bit baffled and to be honest, feel like I don’t know what I really want!
I can say that the drive there and back in the GTS felt great and not sure I’m ready to give up on the agility, small size and thrill it can provide.
I need to think through this more carefully and whether a manual would make any difference.
First a disclaimer
I couldn’t easily arrange a test drive of an earlier manual that I think I would want to buy so drove a low mileage high spec V12V S auto which was in immaculate and stunning condition.
I fell in love with the looks, agreed high level numbers (fair price and transaction options for the GTS) and had almost convinced myself to buy it anyway as it seemed it could be “the one” BEFORE the test drive.
The drive
Epic torque, amazing sound, stunning interior, ballistic performance without even wringing it out.
But ...I felt strangely disappointed! It felt heavy (expected) but not agile even in the way I remembered the bus that was my Granturismo.
Went and stopped well, but didn’t give me a the “special” feeling I expected but I can’t articulate what I expected. The gearbox was similar to the Maz and was fine once you finessed it (but also confirmed I didn’t want it) but it was more about a lack of the drama I convinced myself I would experience. I’m a bit baffled and to be honest, feel like I don’t know what I really want!
I can say that the drive there and back in the GTS felt great and not sure I’m ready to give up on the agility, small size and thrill it can provide.
I need to think through this more carefully and whether a manual would make any difference.
Very interesting, sounds quite close to my experience (page 1), where I was also left wondering if the manual version is the answer.
It's shame because the visual updates to the S like the lack of tacky silver bits on the exterior + the mesh grill imo make the car look much better and it won't date nearly as fast.
It's shame because the visual updates to the S like the lack of tacky silver bits on the exterior + the mesh grill imo make the car look much better and it won't date nearly as fast.
Ah well.
What about an AMG GT, or a McLaren 650S? Personally I prefer the looks of the MP4, and the warranty costs of a 540C/570S but the 650S has the reputation for the best build quality.
Or keep the GTS and buy a SC Elise or Exige as a toy.
What about an AMG GT, or a McLaren 650S? Personally I prefer the looks of the MP4, and the warranty costs of a 540C/570S but the 650S has the reputation for the best build quality.
Or keep the GTS and buy a SC Elise or Exige as a toy.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 14th September 19:39
n12maser said:
Very interesting, sounds quite close to my experience (page 1), where I was also left wondering if the manual version is the answer.
It's shame because the visual updates to the S like the lack of tacky silver bits on the exterior + the mesh grill imo make the car look much better and it won't date nearly as fast.
Agreed, this car was dripping with carbon on the outside and looked stunning. Don’t think the S exterior will date at all, they’re beautiful cars. It's shame because the visual updates to the S like the lack of tacky silver bits on the exterior + the mesh grill imo make the car look much better and it won't date nearly as fast.
Edit - I do think I need to try a non S manual before I rule out the Vantage
Edited by c4sman on Sunday 15th September 08:44
BlackWidow13 said:
Ah well.
What about an AMG GT, or a McLaren 650S? Personally I prefer the looks of the MP4, and the warranty costs of a 540C/570S but the 650S has the reputation for the best build quality.
Or keep the GTS and buy a SC Elise or Exige as a toy.
Love to look at Merc’s but the brand doesn’t excite me. What about an AMG GT, or a McLaren 650S? Personally I prefer the looks of the MP4, and the warranty costs of a 540C/570S but the 650S has the reputation for the best build quality.
Or keep the GTS and buy a SC Elise or Exige as a toy.
Edited by BlackWidow13 on Saturday 14th September 19:39
I hear too many horror stories about McLaren ownership costs to take that leap. Also the engine of a car is really key to me and most say the Mac engine (that seems to be in all models) is biblically powerful but a little bland.
I love the look of the AMG GT but it was very disappointing to drive IMHO.
Main issue is the steering, which is like using a playstation wheel, totally lacking in feeling.
The engine is a brute and makes a good noise but lacks soul.
Finally the suspension was too soft for me.
Was a shame as I was on the way to buying one a few years ago.
I understand how the Vantage feels heavy compared to the 911 GTS, I would agree with that too and a manual won't change that. But it will take you a lot longer to learn how to drive it fast and when you do it will be more rewarding.
The automated manual I didn't like as found it a little hesitant and obviously jerky. People say you adjust your driving to it then it is amazing, I am sure they are right. I just prefer the manual and think long-term the manual will hold it's value better.
Either way searching for a new toy and doing test drives is great fun, enjoy the research!
Main issue is the steering, which is like using a playstation wheel, totally lacking in feeling.
The engine is a brute and makes a good noise but lacks soul.
Finally the suspension was too soft for me.
Was a shame as I was on the way to buying one a few years ago.
I understand how the Vantage feels heavy compared to the 911 GTS, I would agree with that too and a manual won't change that. But it will take you a lot longer to learn how to drive it fast and when you do it will be more rewarding.
The automated manual I didn't like as found it a little hesitant and obviously jerky. People say you adjust your driving to it then it is amazing, I am sure they are right. I just prefer the manual and think long-term the manual will hold it's value better.
Either way searching for a new toy and doing test drives is great fun, enjoy the research!
madcal said:
I love the look of the AMG GT but it was very disappointing to drive IMHO.
Main issue is the steering, which is like using a playstation wheel, totally lacking in feeling.
The engine is a brute and makes a good noise but lacks soul.
Finally the suspension was too soft for me.
Was a shame as I was on the way to buying one a few years ago.
I understand how the Vantage feels heavy compared to the 911 GTS, I would agree with that too and a manual won't change that. But it will take you a lot longer to learn how to drive it fast and when you do it will be more rewarding.
The automated manual I didn't like as found it a little hesitant and obviously jerky. People say you adjust your driving to it then it is amazing, I am sure they are right. I just prefer the manual and think long-term the manual will hold it's value better.
Either way searching for a new toy and doing test drives is great fun, enjoy the research!
I agree about the amg gt ,most disappointing car I have driven for a while ,but suspension too soft ?Main issue is the steering, which is like using a playstation wheel, totally lacking in feeling.
The engine is a brute and makes a good noise but lacks soul.
Finally the suspension was too soft for me.
Was a shame as I was on the way to buying one a few years ago.
I understand how the Vantage feels heavy compared to the 911 GTS, I would agree with that too and a manual won't change that. But it will take you a lot longer to learn how to drive it fast and when you do it will be more rewarding.
The automated manual I didn't like as found it a little hesitant and obviously jerky. People say you adjust your driving to it then it is amazing, I am sure they are right. I just prefer the manual and think long-term the manual will hold it's value better.
Either way searching for a new toy and doing test drives is great fun, enjoy the research!
I thought it too hard but that goes to show how different we all are .
franki68 said:
I agree about the amg gt ,most disappointing car I have driven for a while ,but suspension too soft ?
I thought it too hard but that goes to show how different we all are .
I drove GT not GT-S or the R. Not so much soft just disconnected from reality, whole thing was a little playstation not just the steering. Really weird since the E63S I trashed round MBWorld at Brooklands felt better so they can do it right!I thought it too hard but that goes to show how different we all are .
madcal said:
I drove GT not GT-S or the R. Not so much soft just disconnected from reality, whole thing was a little playstation not just the steering. Really weird since the E63S I trashed round MBWorld at Brooklands felt better so they can do it right!
How interesting. Years ago I thrashed an SL55 AMG round there and you could not have more perfectly described how the steering on that felt. Shame the GTs still have that feel. madcal said:
I drove GT not GT-S or the R. Not so much soft just disconnected from reality, whole thing was a little playstation not just the steering. Really weird since the E63S I trashed round MBWorld at Brooklands felt better so they can do it right!
I tried the gt-s agree steering was poor which was a surprise as the n/a e63 I drove quite a bit steered well ,didn’t like the view either ,like driving a postbox which was a shame as I love the way it looked .andyvvc said:
I jumped from a 996T into a 2008MY V8 Vantage recently.
Unless the 997 cabin and overall asthetic is a lot better than the 996, I would assume the V12V will feel far more impressive to own and drive in. Straight line speed of the V12V surely surpasses a 997GTS?
The 997 interior is IMO greatly improved over the 996Unless the 997 cabin and overall asthetic is a lot better than the 996, I would assume the V12V will feel far more impressive to own and drive in. Straight line speed of the V12V surely surpasses a 997GTS?
The Vantage interior again IMO is more luxurious than the Porsche
The comments about the Vantage being lardy boat like and the V8 being slow, I'd say they are a little exaggerated, I've not driven the Vantage extensively but didn't find it that bad! Comparing it to a 911 is a tough gig though as the 911 is jut such a fantastic drivers car.
A manual V12 has got to be the more special car unless you're out hooning slaming it round corners all the time & doing multiple track days a year
So back from a test drive (2012 V12V manual). Here are my thoughts.
Car was again well presented and drove miles better than the S auto. Actually felt a good bit quicker than the 7GTS once 2nd gear got traction, which on a warm day with tyres in great condition took a lot longer than you might think healthy! Traction control was working hard. Start up and driving engine sounds were wonderful both under acceleration and on the overrun, with relentless punch from very low rpm. Interior finish was lovely with leather everywhere in brand new condition. The gearbox/clutch takes some getting used to with high clutch bite point, but actually grew to like the gearbox itself after a short while and even the clutch was ok.
But, although the car felt twice as good as the S Auto (although a bit down on the extra power), I don’t think these cars are for me. It has helped me understand what I was looking for but also that it may not exist.
I’m surprised how much I still want the agility, feel and grip of the 911, whilst wanting the luxury and drama of the Aston. Thing is, the Aston attempts sporty with a pretty firm ride in non S trim and heavy steering ( both of which detracts from the luxury), but then doesn’t deliver the dynamics to go with it. I totally get why owners love it for its drama, noise, performance, road presence and image, but now conclude it doesn’t have the right mix of compromises that I’m looking for.
It did make the GTS shine once again as I took it back around the dealers test route and found it so much more confident, and surprisingly riding better than the Aston. I guess my confidence might grow with familiarity in the Aston but I’m not totally convinced.
Decided that this has proved how much I still love the GTS heading for 5 years in so I think I’m stuck with it. My next step is to look for something that focuses on sporty-ish luxury, character and image to go alongside the GTS in the garage.
Right now, that looks a lot like going back to a Maz Granturismo again, but as the Porsche is staying, I need to wait a bit before making that bigger financial investment.
Also big thanks to all of the contributors to the thread, some great and accurate info (a lot of you can now say “I told you so!”)
I’m the meantime, need to pile more miles onto the 997 until it’s worthless and unsaleable
Car was again well presented and drove miles better than the S auto. Actually felt a good bit quicker than the 7GTS once 2nd gear got traction, which on a warm day with tyres in great condition took a lot longer than you might think healthy! Traction control was working hard. Start up and driving engine sounds were wonderful both under acceleration and on the overrun, with relentless punch from very low rpm. Interior finish was lovely with leather everywhere in brand new condition. The gearbox/clutch takes some getting used to with high clutch bite point, but actually grew to like the gearbox itself after a short while and even the clutch was ok.
But, although the car felt twice as good as the S Auto (although a bit down on the extra power), I don’t think these cars are for me. It has helped me understand what I was looking for but also that it may not exist.
I’m surprised how much I still want the agility, feel and grip of the 911, whilst wanting the luxury and drama of the Aston. Thing is, the Aston attempts sporty with a pretty firm ride in non S trim and heavy steering ( both of which detracts from the luxury), but then doesn’t deliver the dynamics to go with it. I totally get why owners love it for its drama, noise, performance, road presence and image, but now conclude it doesn’t have the right mix of compromises that I’m looking for.
It did make the GTS shine once again as I took it back around the dealers test route and found it so much more confident, and surprisingly riding better than the Aston. I guess my confidence might grow with familiarity in the Aston but I’m not totally convinced.
Decided that this has proved how much I still love the GTS heading for 5 years in so I think I’m stuck with it. My next step is to look for something that focuses on sporty-ish luxury, character and image to go alongside the GTS in the garage.
Right now, that looks a lot like going back to a Maz Granturismo again, but as the Porsche is staying, I need to wait a bit before making that bigger financial investment.
Also big thanks to all of the contributors to the thread, some great and accurate info (a lot of you can now say “I told you so!”)
I’m the meantime, need to pile more miles onto the 997 until it’s worthless and unsaleable
n12maser said:
'My next step is to look for something that focuses on sporty-ish luxury, character and image'
Ferrari California? I bet the ride is much more dynamic than Astons. Would be a natural step up from your previous Maserati.
If money allows, it’s a good one on the list, together with the scaglietti and 599Ferrari California? I bet the ride is much more dynamic than Astons. Would be a natural step up from your previous Maserati.
Edited by c4sman on Saturday 21st September 17:17
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