991.2 GT3 sell now or keep dilemma
Discussion
430scuderia1 said:
Porsche911R said:
A £145k offer will annoy the doom slayers on here ;-)
No way he has had a real bid at that.Dealers not bidding on these and mine not getting bids even at £125k...
https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...
Also there is no description whatsoever on that ad which will definitely put potential buyers off.
av185 said:
Not being funny but your car is 17 reg with 7k miles and steel brakes which means it is worth considerably less than the Miami car which has pccbs which are what most gen 2 buyers want.
If I was looking for a track car I'd definitively go steels. For the road it would have to be PCCBs though430scuderia1 said:
Porsche911R said:
A £145k offer will annoy the doom slayers on here ;-)
No way he has had a real bid at that.Dealers not bidding on these and mine not getting bids even at £125k...
https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...
av185 said:
430scuderia1 said:
Porsche911R said:
A £145k offer will annoy the doom slayers on here ;-)
No way he has had a real bid at that.Dealers not bidding on these and mine not getting bids even at £125k...
https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...
Also there is no description whatsoever on that ad which will definitely put potential buyers off.
Timing is somewhat challenging to predict, but:
The final day that Johnson can call for an election is tomorrow, if he wants to have it before Brexit day (25 working days from calling it to voting), and the other parties won’t let him have an election until he requests the extension (as there is absolutely zero chance of a deal).
Which means we’ll be having an election at the end of November I think, then Christmas and so forth, probably whilst we work out what the new coalition government is going to be.
I think that we’d likely have the next referendum in June or July 2020.
Once we get rid of Johnson and Cummings the market is likely to rally, but until the next referendum vote is done we won’t have any certainty so we will continue to bleed inward investment and UK companies will continue to delay investment and move overseas.
I’d therefore take the offer you have, or sit on the car until summer next year- and hope like hell that enough of the nutters have kicked the bucket by then that we get a solid remain majority. If we vote leave again then you’ll wish you sold now.
The final day that Johnson can call for an election is tomorrow, if he wants to have it before Brexit day (25 working days from calling it to voting), and the other parties won’t let him have an election until he requests the extension (as there is absolutely zero chance of a deal).
Which means we’ll be having an election at the end of November I think, then Christmas and so forth, probably whilst we work out what the new coalition government is going to be.
I think that we’d likely have the next referendum in June or July 2020.
Once we get rid of Johnson and Cummings the market is likely to rally, but until the next referendum vote is done we won’t have any certainty so we will continue to bleed inward investment and UK companies will continue to delay investment and move overseas.
I’d therefore take the offer you have, or sit on the car until summer next year- and hope like hell that enough of the nutters have kicked the bucket by then that we get a solid remain majority. If we vote leave again then you’ll wish you sold now.
GT4RS said:
430scuderia1 said:
Porsche911R said:
A £145k offer will annoy the doom slayers on here ;-)
No way he has had a real bid at that.Dealers not bidding on these and mine not getting bids even at £125k...
https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...
Red sports Chrono makes it unsaleable
oh and it is 2 owner, not 3..Very well specced apart from ceramics...
Take £125k every day of the week!
Exterior Colour
Jet Black Metallic 2T £ 834.00
Interior Colour
Black leather interior package (in conjunction with option contrast seams in Red) 68 £ 2,147.00
Exterior
LED main headlights in black including Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) Exclusive XEY £ 1,865.00
Reversing camera 7X9 £ 464.00
Privacy glass (rear side windows and rear window) Exclusive XPL £ 387.00
Headlight cleaning system covers painted Exclusive XUB £ 143.00
Transmission / Chassis
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250 £ 0.00
Front axle lift system 474 £ 1,599.00
Chrono Package and preparation for lap trigger QR5 £ 336.00
Wheels
20-inch 911 GT3 wheels 431 £ 0.00
Wheel Accessories
Wheels painted in satin black with wheel outer edge painted in Guards Red Exclusive XGT £ 422.00
Interior
Club sports package 003 £ 0.00
Six-point racing harness for passenger seat 579 £ 294.00
Cruise control 454 £ 228.00
Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor P13 £ 387.00
Light design package 630 £ 312.00
HomeLink® (programmable garage door opener) 608 £ 203.00
12-o'clock marking in Red 886 £ 168.00
Full bucket seats P11 £ 3,324.00
Instrument dials in White Exclusive XFJ£ 417.00
Instrument dial Chrono stopwatch guards red Exclusive CGG £ 234.00
Interior Leather
Dashboard trim package in leather Exclusive CZW £ 830.00
Steering column casing in leather Exclusive XNS £ 231.00
Leather interior with stitching in red 749 £ 834.00
Interior Alcantara®
Sun visors in Alcantara® Exclusive XLU £ 291.00
Extended interior package door panel in leather/Alcantara® Exclusive CLP £ 324.00
Storage compartment lid in Alcantara® with 'PORSCHE' logo Exclusive XLG £ 161.00
Belt outlet trims in Alcantara® Exclusive CLN £ 260.00
Interior Carbon
Carbon interior package (with leather interior) Exclusive EKG £ 501.00
Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated Exclusive XXD £ 716.00
Audio / Comm.
BOSE® Surround Sound-System 9VL £ 1,002.00
Digital radio QV3 £ 336.00
Edited by 430scuderia1 on Wednesday 25th September 22:48
430scuderia1 said:
GT4RS said:
430scuderia1 said:
Porsche911R said:
A £145k offer will annoy the doom slayers on here ;-)
No way he has had a real bid at that.Dealers not bidding on these and mine not getting bids even at £125k...
https://www.barrybrown.co.uk/used-porsche-911-wiga...
Red sports Chrono makes it unsaleable
oh and it is 2 owner, not 3..Very well specced apart from ceramics...
Take £125k every day of the week!
Exterior Colour
Jet Black Metallic 2T £ 834.00
Interior Colour
Black leather interior package (in conjunction with option contrast seams in Red) 68 £ 2,147.00
Exterior
LED main headlights in black including Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS) Exclusive XEY £ 1,865.00
Reversing camera 7X9 £ 464.00
Privacy glass (rear side windows and rear window) Exclusive XPL £ 387.00
Headlight cleaning system covers painted Exclusive XUB £ 143.00
Transmission / Chassis
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250 £ 0.00
Front axle lift system 474 £ 1,599.00
Chrono Package and preparation for lap trigger QR5 £ 336.00
Wheels
20-inch 911 GT3 wheels 431 £ 0.00
Wheel Accessories
Wheels painted in satin black with wheel outer edge painted in Guards Red Exclusive XGT £ 422.00
Interior
Club sports package 003 £ 0.00
Six-point racing harness for passenger seat 579 £ 294.00
Cruise control 454 £ 228.00
Automatically dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor P13 £ 387.00
Light design package 630 £ 312.00
HomeLink® (programmable garage door opener) 608 £ 203.00
12-o'clock marking in Red 886 £ 168.00
Full bucket seats P11 £ 3,324.00
Instrument dials in White Exclusive XFJ£ 417.00
Instrument dial Chrono stopwatch guards red Exclusive CGG £ 234.00
Interior Leather
Dashboard trim package in leather Exclusive CZW £ 830.00
Steering column casing in leather Exclusive XNS £ 231.00
Leather interior with stitching in red 749 £ 834.00
Interior Alcantara®
Sun visors in Alcantara® Exclusive XLU £ 291.00
Extended interior package door panel in leather/Alcantara® Exclusive CLP £ 324.00
Storage compartment lid in Alcantara® with 'PORSCHE' logo Exclusive XLG £ 161.00
Belt outlet trims in Alcantara® Exclusive CLN £ 260.00
Interior Carbon
Carbon interior package (with leather interior) Exclusive EKG £ 501.00
Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated Exclusive XXD £ 716.00
Audio / Comm.
BOSE® Surround Sound-System 9VL £ 1,002.00
Digital radio QV3 £ 336.00
Edited by 430scuderia1 on Wednesday 25th September 22:48
Good luck with the sale.
GT4RS said:
139k list and you will take 125k, that will keep one or two quote on here!
Good luck with the sale.
Except those extra add up to about £20k so it’s not close to being a £137k spec car. Maybe there’s something wrong with that list though as the Black wheels with red trim were over £1k IIRC. Noticed it because it’s similar spec to mine but I have the stupidly expensive contrast stitching, PCCB’s and the £2k paint and mine wasn’t quite £140k....Good luck with the sale.
So it it’s actually a £130k + spec car but doesn’t have PCCB’s it’s not that far off. Although clearly it’s supportive of the fact that these cars are going for under list regardless !!
I’d find somewhere better to advertise it if it’s on SoR though...specialist that’s known for GT3’s would do much better with it IMHO.
Edited by Cheib on Thursday 26th September 08:03
Obarks said:
I know the market is suffering at the moment but do we think it will recover again after Brexit and in the spring of next year?
Does anyone actually know if Brexit is even going to happen? Even then, it is not the end of uncertainties, but merely the end of the first phase. TBF, sticking my neck out, I'd say there will be sufficient uncertainty (not just from brexit, but also the wider European economic slowdown) to say things are unlikely to pick up sharpish early next year.Obarks said:
That is my current thinking! Ive done a season racing the Radical SR3 so I know all about costs. I just cant justify having a race car and an awesome road car (to the mrs) lol
Given what I've said above, and the fact that racing is the motivation in all of this, selling sooner, rather than later at least gives you the benefit of not losing part of the race season. You can get straight on with it, if that's what is really motivating you.Porsche911R said:
A none PCCB car in the worse resale colour, PDK with no PCCBs's , That's a hard sell.
Add in red seat stripes, red crono clock (fatal), red wheel rims !!! it's just not what people In the main want !
3 owners , 2017 car and 7k miles also don't help value and all chip away at the price. It's retail imo is £122k So it's not going to get £125k trade bids.
trade on that car is £110k imho.
hi spec 18 registered 1 owner cars with all the right bits with sub 2k miles are now at £5k overs to sell them, And 6 to 10k under list as a trade bid.
some cars are just not priced to sell atm.
I do agree though that a £145k bid from the OP is a shock, why pay that ! unless it's a Touring.
This is BS btw.. my 991.2 LHD Touring in GT Silver with red dials, red chrono, steels and black rims with red edging sold in less than 48hrs. Add in red seat stripes, red crono clock (fatal), red wheel rims !!! it's just not what people In the main want !
3 owners , 2017 car and 7k miles also don't help value and all chip away at the price. It's retail imo is £122k So it's not going to get £125k trade bids.
trade on that car is £110k imho.
hi spec 18 registered 1 owner cars with all the right bits with sub 2k miles are now at £5k overs to sell them, And 6 to 10k under list as a trade bid.
some cars are just not priced to sell atm.
I do agree though that a £145k bid from the OP is a shock, why pay that ! unless it's a Touring.
Those pictures dont do it justice, and the red dials and chrono in the flesh are MUCH MUCH better than in the pictures, night and day. As when you drive they appear dark red and are actually very nice. IMHO of course. But I was also DEAD against them before I found my car that had been specc'ed that way, and was surprised how well they worked overall.
Steel vs PCCB is an old debate, but aside from 6k price difference the Steel car driver will likely NEVER EVER regret not having PCCB. And nobody will convince me otherwise after having owned both Steels and Ceramics over the year. These cars are well over engineered for UK roads. And Porsche steel brakes are absolutely phenomenal, not to mention WAY easier to replace if you use your car as intended, i.e. on track.
My 2 cents. And well done to 430 poster for being honest about his sale. Cannot say I see that very often these days. This is a proper horrible market, and all those who jumped on the depreciation free GT3 market because Instagram will probably regret it. Time for GT cars to go back to owners who will drive them hard and appreciate them.
rant over
From personal experience with Barry (430scuderia1) I can 100% vouch that he is refreshingly honest when it comes to no BS sales talk and realistic values in the marketplace which is sadly unlike many other users on here.
I bought my GT4 from Barry and it was a simple clean honest transaction with no BS or politics.
By the way the GT4 in question had the 'in some peoples opinion unsaleable' body coloured dash & door inserts which I really liked and prefer to carbon and they didn't stop my car selling at an OPC for what was at the time the highest priced GT4 in the network! Each to their own including red clocks!
Hope you're keeping well Barry and good luck with the GT3 sale
I bought my GT4 from Barry and it was a simple clean honest transaction with no BS or politics.
By the way the GT4 in question had the 'in some peoples opinion unsaleable' body coloured dash & door inserts which I really liked and prefer to carbon and they didn't stop my car selling at an OPC for what was at the time the highest priced GT4 in the network! Each to their own including red clocks!
Hope you're keeping well Barry and good luck with the GT3 sale
rosino said:
This is BS btw.. my 991.2 LHD Touring in GT Silver with red dials, red chrono, steels and black rims with red edging sold in less than 48hrs.
Those pictures dont do it justice, and the red dials and chrono in the flesh are MUCH MUCH better than in the pictures, night and day. As when you drive they appear dark red and are actually very nice. IMHO of course. But I was also DEAD against them before I found my car that had been specc'ed that way, and was surprised how well they worked overall.
Steel vs PCCB is an old debate, but aside from 6k price difference the Steel car driver will likely NEVER EVER regret not having PCCB. And nobody will convince me otherwise after having owned both Steels and Ceramics over the year. These cars are well over engineered for UK roads. And Porsche steel brakes are absolutely phenomenal, not to mention WAY easier to replace if you use your car as intended, i.e. on track.
My 2 cents. And well done to 430 poster for being honest about his sale. Cannot say I see that very often these days. This is a proper horrible market, and all those who jumped on the depreciation free GT3 market because Instagram will probably regret it. Time for GT cars to go back to owners who will drive them hard and appreciate them.
rant over
you can rant all your like, red dials are a poor seller, that's just a fact.Those pictures dont do it justice, and the red dials and chrono in the flesh are MUCH MUCH better than in the pictures, night and day. As when you drive they appear dark red and are actually very nice. IMHO of course. But I was also DEAD against them before I found my car that had been specc'ed that way, and was surprised how well they worked overall.
Steel vs PCCB is an old debate, but aside from 6k price difference the Steel car driver will likely NEVER EVER regret not having PCCB. And nobody will convince me otherwise after having owned both Steels and Ceramics over the year. These cars are well over engineered for UK roads. And Porsche steel brakes are absolutely phenomenal, not to mention WAY easier to replace if you use your car as intended, i.e. on track.
My 2 cents. And well done to 430 poster for being honest about his sale. Cannot say I see that very often these days. This is a proper horrible market, and all those who jumped on the depreciation free GT3 market because Instagram will probably regret it. Time for GT cars to go back to owners who will drive them hard and appreciate them.
rant over
I get told off for so called talking up prices of cars I own when I just say what market value is at that point, I get told off when I give lower values when the markets changed !! which are realisitic to sell the car.
Steel shod GT3 in 991.2 market are a bad seller and does effect value, but then you DO have to price the car as a steel car, I don't care about choices, just the price.
Cannot win.
Black cars are the worse sellers.
red dials are the worse sellers, but that don't really effect values just makes your market smaller.
Red wheel stripes not popular.
Forget list on this car as the cars got a lot of the options on which make you no money sadly so £139k or not , I will make the staring price about £133k which is the value of a car list with every thing you want. (without a expensive colour) other option on top of that people either like and will help sell a car or hate, ie red dials and pin stripe wheels, you paid but don't help.
This is how I work out prices, although I am not sure on the difference on PDK vs manual ATM where top end manuals fetch £139k at best, lets say the black car is £138k base case(the £133k plus £5k overs) if it were a new low mile 1 owner 18 reg. then just minus off the below to get your retail sale price today. retail to sell = £117,500 trade as a buy out take 10% ish £106k
SOR return say a £110,000.
17 reg car is £5k less
PCCB car is £6.5k less
7k miles is £1k per 1k miles so £7k less. (this levels out after more miles but today on low mileage cars it's £1k for 1k miles.
more than 1 owner £2k less
it's really not hard to value cars if you look at all cars in the same vain and act want to sell them over talking forum b
ks.So of course the seller would take £125k imo it's still over priced at that in todays market on that car.
As a pretend trader, I would not offer a buy out on that car due to Spec, so it would have to be a SOR, as the spec is to fussy for a quick sale.
We have a lot of cars priced very wrong, the correctly price cars are still selling no issue, people see a lower price car and think that's the market value, when really you have to take into account Age, miles and Spec to get a true value.
we have 2 981 Spyders sitting at £65k people say they are cheap BUT they are STILL for sale and are still priced wrong !!!
IF that were my Black car and I REALLY wanted to sell it, forget SOR and just get it up on PH priced right £117,900 say.
I have had to sell 2 cars quick in the last year or so, and have lost £15k it is what it is atm, but the price will be cheaper tomorrow and thus price it right today and get it sold.
look it's still cheap for a super car use even though painfull, but you have 488 and 600LT boys lost £70k in 6 months !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 26th September 10:05
rosino said:
Steel vs PCCB is an old debate, but aside from 6k price difference the Steel car driver will likely NEVER EVER regret not having PCCB. And nobody will convince me otherwise after having owned both Steels and Ceramics over the year. These cars are well over engineered for UK roads. And Porsche steel brakes are absolutely phenomenal, not to mention WAY easier to replace if you use your car as intended, i.e. on track.
Interesting how the steel v ceramics demand changed from the 991.1 GT3 to the 991.2.Steels were mostly specced on the gen 1 and I agree they were perfectly good brakes and most buying the cars used were happy with these although a small premium could be obtained for a ceramic braked car.
This changed with the gen 2 GT3 probably in the footsteps of the RS where steel brakes were essentially a no no spec item and marketing disaster used and steel braked cars had to be substantially cheaper up to £20k on a £200k used 991.1 RS (JZM UV car as an example).
Hence why steel braked 991.2 GT3s struggle to sell unless up to £8.5 k cheaper than a ceramic braked car.
Be interesting to see whether the new GT4 will follow suit given its higher price point over the 981 but I remain unconviced and am speccing steels.
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