991.2 GT3 sell now or keep dilemma
Discussion
Far Cough said:
Stop getting your knickers in a twist. All I said was that at the price point we are discussing which is about £133k there are cars of same spec but one has 4k mileage and one has double that. Why would you go for the higher mileage one ?
Agreed 3 and 4k cars that are 3 years old is no mileage at all but it's good for us buyers and we cannot begin to understand anyone else circumstances and it's not for them to explain it either.
Anyhow ..... Off to look at one today with 4k miles
I think this is the point , these cars are still making over list so if you are paying that money you would want the lowest or nearly delivery mileage possible.Agreed 3 and 4k cars that are 3 years old is no mileage at all but it's good for us buyers and we cannot begin to understand anyone else circumstances and it's not for them to explain it either.
Anyhow ..... Off to look at one today with 4k miles
If the car had 8k-10k on i,m not sure it would, should achieve such a high price, so low miles it is.
Every single car in any makes is miles sensitive!
So people are being daft ?
You just have to know ave miles for the make.
A Ford is 12k a Porsche 8k a Gt car 4K if it’s done over that PA it’s above ave miles.
So to call a 8k mile 2 year old car high is stupid, it’s ave for the model. We see a lot of cars with 15k on now so 8k CANNOT be called high.
4 k would be low and 12k would be high it's very simple figures for people to get wrong or upset over.
Values follow the averages
So people are being daft ?
You just have to know ave miles for the make.
A Ford is 12k a Porsche 8k a Gt car 4K if it’s done over that PA it’s above ave miles.
So to call a 8k mile 2 year old car high is stupid, it’s ave for the model. We see a lot of cars with 15k on now so 8k CANNOT be called high.
4 k would be low and 12k would be high it's very simple figures for people to get wrong or upset over.
Values follow the averages
It’s ironic really, because every Porsche I’ve owned has actually got better with mileage.
People preoccupied with ‘low mileage’ are usually trying to protect the value for when they come to sell it, which seems to be a perverse priority when buying.
My only exception is classic/collectibles, where low mileage does add value.
People preoccupied with ‘low mileage’ are usually trying to protect the value for when they come to sell it, which seems to be a perverse priority when buying.
My only exception is classic/collectibles, where low mileage does add value.
If you’re going to buy with intent of really using it and racking up the miles then may as well buy the highest mileage car available at the cheaper end of the market. What’s the fun in buying an ultra low mileage car and being petrified of using it incase it loses too much money, what a waste of a great car.
Denno B said:
If you’re going to buy with intent of really using it and racking up the miles then may as well buy the highest mileage car available at the cheaper end of the market. What’s the fun in buying an ultra low mileage car and being petrified of using it incase it loses too much money, what a waste of a great car.
Why throw away £30k unless you can afford too ?I own a dream car, cannot afford to put 30k miles on it, so happy to own one and do ave miles for the model.
I guess it depends if you are very well off or not.
Hunters ok he owns a RS product at list price , so talking about losing money is not going to happen for him to just say drive it !
Plus he is a top earner vs mr ave, ask him if he would pay £50k overs for the car and he might not be a vocal about miles.
People can do what miles they like, I keep an eye on miles on my more expensive buys to get an ok return.
It will cost you 1k for every 1k miles to go above ave miles and that’s not acceptable for me. But to do 4K pa and enjoy it is ok and you Manage to costs.
hunter 66 said:
Yes but as it is a car , it is not about owning but driving . Anyway whatever anyone wants to do , thankfully saving a lot of money this weekend by not racing at Classic Le Mans and not putting mileage on the RS driving there ............. would have been fun though
Count your self lucky P because as of 6AM this morning your bars are open where in Wales we have another whole week to wait..
av185 said:
Ha 6 a.m.
Apparantly folks were queuing up outside Wetherspoons lol.
Got to love the British mentality.
Exactly this AV..Huge pity the eyes of the world are looking at us with utter disgust..Last few weeks has shown a small proportion of the UK public at its worst behaviour..The police need to can the soft rubber bullets and replace them with good old fashioned ones made form sterner stuff Apparantly folks were queuing up outside Wetherspoons lol.
Got to love the British mentality.
..Porsche911R said:
Why throw away £30k unless you can afford too ?
I own a dream car, cannot afford to put 30k miles on it, so happy to own one and do ave miles for the model.
I guess it depends if you are very well off or not.
Hunters ok he owns a RS product at list price , so talking about losing money is not going to happen for him to just say drive it !
Plus he is a top earner vs mr ave, ask him if he would pay £50k overs for the car and he might not be a vocal about miles.
People can do what miles they like, I keep an eye on miles on my more expensive buys to get an ok return.
It will cost you 1k for every 1k miles to go above ave miles and that’s not acceptable for me. But to do 4K pa and enjoy it is ok and you Manage to costs.
I think its more a case of using whichever car suits a particular occasion.I own a dream car, cannot afford to put 30k miles on it, so happy to own one and do ave miles for the model.
I guess it depends if you are very well off or not.
Hunters ok he owns a RS product at list price , so talking about losing money is not going to happen for him to just say drive it !
Plus he is a top earner vs mr ave, ask him if he would pay £50k overs for the car and he might not be a vocal about miles.
People can do what miles they like, I keep an eye on miles on my more expensive buys to get an ok return.
It will cost you 1k for every 1k miles to go above ave miles and that’s not acceptable for me. But to do 4K pa and enjoy it is ok and you Manage to costs.
Unless I am on a specific road trip no way would I needlessly rack up the miles sitting on the motorway getting a headache in say the GT3 going up to Scotland for a couple of days. May as well use a snotter for that which would be as quick anyway and adding a thousand miles doesn't really matter.
But in contrast if it involved a 3 day journey across country on interesting back roads offering challenging driving where the car can be justified and you can use at least a proportion of the performance then great use it.
It pays to be selective.
Taffy66 said:
av185 said:
Ha 6 a.m.
Apparantly folks were queuing up outside Wetherspoons lol.
Got to love the British mentality.
Exactly this AV..Huge pity the eyes of the world are looking at us with utter disgust..Last few weeks has shown a small proportion of the UK public at its worst behaviour..The police need to can the soft rubber bullets and replace them with good old fashioned ones made form sterner stuff Apparantly folks were queuing up outside Wetherspoons lol.
Got to love the British mentality.
..All down to over popularist politicians I guess.
This weekend will inevitably prove a mistake. Its pissing down here set to continue all weekend so noone will want to be outside in pub gardens and everyone will be queueing clammering to get inside.
What could possibly go wrong I wonder.
Denno B said:
If you’re going to buy with intent of really using it and racking up the miles then may as well buy the highest mileage car available at the cheaper end of the market. What’s the fun in buying an ultra low mileage car and being petrified of using it incase it loses too much money, what a waste of a great car.
Equally though if you buy a relatively high mileage car you may not want to put many miles on it as it will very quickly become a relatively very high mileage car with a consequentially much lower value.Horses for courses I guess.
Worst scenario would be to buy at top money say a crazy low mileage c 200 miler and whack say 12k a year on it. Better idea would be to buy say a 5k miler at average money.
Someone posted how GT3s don't feel properly run in until 10k miles. Would agree with this.
As we all know short runs from cold especially during the running in period is the worst thing for an engine and many of these sub 500 mile 2 year old cars will show more wear to the engines and transmissions than cars with 20x the mileage which have been run in properly with long runs by gradually increasing the rev ranges.
hunter 66 said:
Been open for a week or two in London "take away " coming to SS tomorrow ??
Unfortunately can't make tomorrow as had a long standing prior engagement..Only picking my RS up next Thursday from Cardiff as it got caught up in Swindon at the body shop and then Bristol Topaz due to the lock down..Trying to book August PCGB SS day but everything seems to be booked up ATM..av185 said:
I think its more a case of using whichever car suits a particular occasion.
Unless I am on a specific road trip no way would I needlessly rack up the miles sitting on the motorway getting a headache in say the GT3 going up to Scotland for a couple of days. May as well use a snotter for that which would be as quick anyway and adding a thousand miles doesn't really matter.
But in contrast if it involved a 3 day journey across country on interesting back roads offering challenging driving where the car can be justified and you can use at least a proportion of the performance then great use it.
It pays to be selective.
This for me really sums up the problem with today’s GT car market - worryImg about the fact that adding 1000’miles will adversely affect the value of your car. Unless I am on a specific road trip no way would I needlessly rack up the miles sitting on the motorway getting a headache in say the GT3 going up to Scotland for a couple of days. May as well use a snotter for that which would be as quick anyway and adding a thousand miles doesn't really matter.
But in contrast if it involved a 3 day journey across country on interesting back roads offering challenging driving where the car can be justified and you can use at least a proportion of the performance then great use it.
It pays to be selective.
JulierPass said:
av185 said:
I think its more a case of using whichever car suits a particular occasion.
Unless I am on a specific road trip no way would I needlessly rack up the miles sitting on the motorway getting a headache in say the GT3 going up to Scotland for a couple of days. May as well use a snotter for that which would be as quick anyway and adding a thousand miles doesn't really matter.
But in contrast if it involved a 3 day journey across country on interesting back roads offering challenging driving where the car can be justified and you can use at least a proportion of the performance then great use it.
It pays to be selective.
This for me really sums up the problem with today’s GT car market - worryImg about the fact that adding 1000’miles will adversely affect the value of your car. Unless I am on a specific road trip no way would I needlessly rack up the miles sitting on the motorway getting a headache in say the GT3 going up to Scotland for a couple of days. May as well use a snotter for that which would be as quick anyway and adding a thousand miles doesn't really matter.
But in contrast if it involved a 3 day journey across country on interesting back roads offering challenging driving where the car can be justified and you can use at least a proportion of the performance then great use it.
It pays to be selective.
I'm not worried in the slightest. Why would I be. But if most buyers of used Porsche GTs worry about mileage that is their perogative entirely they represent the market and there is nothing anyone can do to change it least of all someone bleating on an internet forum.
The fact is though if I take a specific car out I prefer to be in the most suitable and enjoyable car for a specific drive as would anyone else who enjoys driving and getting the most and best out of their cars. Anyone who claims they don't consider this is either in denial or perhaps has more money than sense.
Apart from the example of a long motorway trip I previously referred to, a prime example would be those who rave about driving the 'Pass of the cattle' over to Applecross West Scotland. I've mountain biked and driven that fantastic road numerous times en route to staying at the Applecross Inn but to say its a fantastic road to take a supercar is plainly b
ks.In fact Ecoty went over it some years ago taking an Aventador and other fine cars on test although the Aventador really would be the last car you'd want to take on what is essentially a sub C class very narrow poorly metalled track with very steep hairpins where most focused cars ate easily grounded. Max speed no more than 25 . Same applies with most of West Scotlands C roads which I happen to know very well indeed having taken many fine cars up there over the years.
In most cases most folks would be better off in a Fiat Punto tbh.
The market sets the price of a car and dictates what a car is worth with a specific mileage its not rocket science.
Porsche GTs are relatively mileage resiliant compared to most focused £100k+ cars btw this being another factor that buyers/the market dictates in all its wisdom.... like it or loathe it is what it is.
But 8 k miles is very low mileage for a Porsche ..... this is the argument . Only now with the "new" Porsche owners since they bought and made "overs" has this story come up because yes most are not really that keen on the marque ( I have a banker friend with a .2GT3 Manual , who hates driving it hence 350 miles only but talks about it in the pub ) . I have now done 10 k miles and not bothered as it is a Porsche , but ran it in for 1,800 miles whereas a colleague had one which he flipped after 800 miles , nearly all of which were on track ...... which probably made no difference anyway .
Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
hunter 66 said:
But 8 k miles is very low mileage for a Porsche ..... this is the argument . Only now with the "new" Porsche owners since they bought and made "overs" has this story come up because yes most are not really that keen on the marque ( I have a banker friend with a .2GT3 Manual , who hates driving it hence 350 miles only but talks about it in the pub ) . I have now done 10 k miles and not bothered as it is a Porsche , but ran it in for 1,800 miles whereas a colleague had one which he flipped after 800 miles , nearly all of which were on track ...... which probably made no difference anyway .
Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
Couldn't agree more Hunter. I'd say that the majority of today's GT buyers are only buying the cars as they can have fairly depreciation proof motoring. They know that miles will kill the price of the car so are very precious about how many miles they put on it. If the asset depreciated like 996 an 7 GT3's did they would run a mile. Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
hunter 66 said:
But 8 k miles is very low mileage for a Porsche ..... this is the argument . Only now with the "new" Porsche owners since they bought and made "overs" has this story come up because yes most are not really that keen on the marque ( I have a banker friend with a .2GT3 Manual , who hates driving it hence 350 miles only but talks about it in the pub ) . I have now done 10 k miles and not bothered as it is a Porsche , but ran it in for 1,800 miles whereas a colleague had one which he flipped after 800 miles , nearly all of which were on track ...... which probably made no difference anyway .
Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
Fair points I get where you are coming from entirely.Anyway long and short of it is in 30 years of Porsche driving it is only in the last few years that suddenly 8 k miles is "leggy". After 86 k miles in my 64 RS the compression tests were very good so maybe Porsche has taken the Ferrari mantel over of making chocolate engines .
But imo I don't actually think 991 GT3s are under used any more than any other £100k focused drivers car....in fact if anything they are probably used more than many equivalent priced cars. And probably no more under used than the 997 GT3 certainly the 997 RS especially the 4.0.
I would also say the very low mileage cars are actually a small fraction of the overall numbers in fact there is currently only one very low miles c500 mile gen 2 GT3 across all OPCs atm although admittedly there are only a handful of cars remaining due to strong recent sales.
I take the view it is more a question of those owning these cars being relatively affluent and as Cheib rightly says they have several different cars available to use which clearly keeps the average miles down for each car.
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