GT3RS to WP

Author
Discussion

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Friday 14th February 2020
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hunter 66 said:


I still like arum ....
Aurum looks good with red calipers, not so much with yellow ones IMHO..I nearly went Aurun on my PCCB RS but very happy i stayed with standard Platinum..Really pleased that Yellow491 holds the new RS WP in such high regard.

hunter 66

3,886 posts

219 months

Friday 14th February 2020
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Agree .... yes yellow was impressed when he came out with me at SS , sneaky buy though .
Maybe a group run to classic Le Mans this year , we are running a few cars in the Endurance legends

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Friday 14th February 2020
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Purple Man said:
Purple Man said:
Gold wheels and yellow callipers are a bit of a Faux Pa, they never look good on any of the GT3 cars.
That Lizard Green car looks spot on just as it is.
Get out and enjoy it.
I am looking to upgrade my GT3 to an RS after having a drive in a friends 3RS, I could not believe the difference.
They are a special car.

what did you gain the difference was ?

Two things surprised me.
1) On paper the 3RS is supposed to be only 20BHP more powerful, the 3RS felt like it had 100BHP more than my GT3 and the PDK was faster and more aggressive.
2) The second was the turn in on slow and fast corners, the front end feels so much more planted and just goes where you point it, maybe greater aero is playing a part, but the RS just feels like a race car!
And that is what makes it feel special.

If you have a GT3, like me, then do not test drive a GT3RS, it will cost you 100K.
Did you get a geo on the GT3, ?
I am hoping to see a few RS this year on track so will get to witness this extra 100bhp .(I have been out in them btw)

Thing is the R spec tyres are worth about 8 seconds at the ring, so take those off the RS and the RS only gains 8 seconds from a normal GT3 in 14 miles. So it’s hard to see the big gain people talk of. .05 seconds a mile !

Yes it’s turn in is nice and the down force is more, 265 up front is crazy. But you just have to dial in a bit of rake on the normal GT3 and trail it a bit to get that solid turn in.

The thing is if you grave turn in and laptimes you have to spend £2.5k on R spec tyres which only give out the best for 300 miles.

Or wait for the 992 which will move the game on with down force, front end turn in and brakes. At last Porsche have swapped out the 10 year old calipers for some new ones lol. I also bet there will be R spec n2 for the new car also.

So money buys you lap time in the end.



gt3rswp

207 posts

59 months

Friday 14th February 2020
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It's only a matter of time until 991.2 GT3 manual cars eclipse the value of 991.2 GT3 RS products - Porsche have really cocked up the model hierarchy!

pete.g

1,527 posts

205 months

Friday 14th February 2020
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gt3rswp said:
It's only a matter of time until 991.2 GT3 manual cars eclipse the value of 991.2 GT3 RS products - Porsche have really cocked up the model hierarchy!
Definitely - especially the GT3s with the right spec, decided on by one of the true experts with levels of insight and prescience that others can never reach.

hunter 66

3,886 posts

219 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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It is not the times the nice bits on the RS and especially the WP , Carbon wings and bonnet , etc etc .
And yes the PDK is a real highlight of the car , no matter what the beards say .
The 992 will be all manual touring .... because most GT buyers still buy for Kudos and "investment" .
Technology and advancement is what I like .
I have my old race Porsches for a bit of true retro feel not the Faux retro , of the modern electronic assisted ( yes I know you can turn it all of but few do ) manual .

APOLO1

5,256 posts

193 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Porsche911R said:
Did you get a geo on the GT3, ?
I am hoping to see a few RS this year on track so will get to witness this extra 100bhp .(I have been out in them btw)

Thing is the R spec tyres are worth about 8 seconds at the ring, so take those off the RS and the RS only gains 8 seconds from a normal GT3 in 14 miles. So it’s hard to see the big gain people talk of. .05 seconds a mile ! Yes it’s turn in is nice and the down force is more, 265 up front is crazy. But you just have to dial in a bit of rake on the normal GT3 and trail it a bit to get that solid turn in.
Done a few track days now in WP RS, for me with my experience level I found my GT3.2 with the JCR set up on it a bit faster on track than what the WPRS is with a very basic set up. I have no doubt that once the WPRS is set up a bit more for track use it be quicker than what the GT3.2 was, for me its all about confidence that the car gives to just hold on in and not lift, I had this in the GT3, but not quite there yet in the WPRS. Those that have had the WPRS on the Dyno say that in stock they are putting out just under 540bhp.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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APOLO1 said:
Done a few track days now in WP RS, for me with my experience level I found my GT3.2 with the JCR set up on it a bit faster on track than what the WPRS is with a very basic set up. I have no doubt that once the WPRS is set up a bit more for track use it be quicker than what the GT3.2 was, for me its all about confidence that the car gives to just hold on in and not lift, I had this in the GT3, but not quite there yet in the WPRS. Those that have had the WPRS on the Dyno say that in stock they are putting out just under 540bhp.
Good stuff, as expected to offset the ppf they have more power, other wise they would have made a slower car .

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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APOLO1 said:
Done a few track days now in WP RS, for me with my experience level I found my GT3.2 with the JCR set up on it a bit faster on track than what the WPRS is with a very basic set up. I have no doubt that once the WPRS is set up a bit more for track use it be quicker than what the GT3.2 was, for me its all about confidence that the car gives to just hold on in and not lift, I had this in the GT3, but not quite there yet in the WPRS. Those that have had the WPRS on the Dyno say that in stock they are putting out just under 540bhp.
Interesting that the basic setup on the RS WP in OEM spec is not optimum for track..I'm having a geo check done on mine in a couple of weeks at my OPC but might cancel now and get it done at a specialist instead..Has JCR got an ideal setup done yet or is it still work in progress..?

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Taffy66 said:
Interesting that the basic setup on the RS WP in OEM spec is not optimum for track..I'm having a geo check done on mine in a couple of weeks at my OPC but might cancel now and get it done at a specialist instead..Has JCR got an ideal setup done yet or is it still work in progress..?
Taff its a road car not a race car,a track set up will have you folowing cambers and lines in the road,a mild tweek is fine depending on what tyres you run and your main use if its road.

A optimum track set up is best on a cup car,just get one of them.
For a big car i am amazed how nimble the latest car is,i had my geo re set to factory as it had settled from new,camber and toe were out.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
Interesting that the basic setup on the RS WP in OEM spec is not optimum for track..I'm having a geo check done on mine in a couple of weeks at my OPC but might cancel now and get it done at a specialist instead..Has JCR got an ideal setup done yet or is it still work in progress..?
Scrap the OPC stuff, totally pointless, also on the RS you have to watch for tyre rub if you go too aggressive due to those 265'5.
Setup always key but if you want the times you need the R's it seems the cars been designed around that new tyre, the ring guys say they could not dial in the RS on normal cups.
Strange the WPRS if you spec the mag wheels did not come with the cup R.
No such tyre for the standard GT3 but then you can dial out understeer without tyre rub with the 245.

These new cars don’t need massive cambers like 996/997 as they roll far less and have far more front end grip, so you sort of can have a track setup and the car still works on the road fine.

Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 15th February 10:12

Yellow491

2,911 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
quotequote all
hunter 66 said:
It is not the times the nice bits on the RS and especially the WP , Carbon wings and bonnet , etc etc .
And yes the PDK is a real highlight of the car , no matter what the beards say .
The 992 will be all manual touring .... because most GT buyers still buy for Kudos and "investment" .
Technology and advancement is what I like .
I have my old race Porsches for a bit of true retro feel not the Faux retro , of the modern electronic assisted ( yes I know you can turn it all of but few do ) manual .
Sorry mate ,we all know on here the gt3 is the cooking version,the rs is the slower car with ppf etc etc;)

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Yellow491 said:
Sorry mate ,we all know on here the gt3 is the cooking version,the rs is the slower car with ppf etc etc;)
That’s daft, what seems to be clear to save face like I predicted the ppf cars are pushing out more bhp. If it’s 540 that’s quite a big tweak.

Like for like the older RS would have been faster.
The standard GT3 don’t come into it, we all know it has the least bhp. So you have a GT3 on 500, RS pre ppf 520, and ppf cars on 540. The RS needed 520 to over come the extra drag of 265's the ppf cars need a bit more again, Porsche don’t make slower GT cars.

Just be sensible , as all pisstaking posts by 4 or 5 people is daft and really no need for it.

I think a lot of new cars are in big trouble, look at the 2020 Supra, the UK is NOT getting the bhp gains :-(

The 992 is going to move the game on for lap times, that’s life.
A base GT car will lap faster than the outgoing WPRS.
The RS ring record car is not a ppf car.

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Am I missing something - if a GPF car had 520bhp and the non-GPF car also had 520bhp, why would the GPF car be slower? Something to do with it spinning up slower due to increased back pressure?

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
Taff its a road car not a race car,a track set up will have you folowing cambers and lines in the road,a mild tweek is fine depending on what tyres you run and your main use if its road.

A optimum track set up is best on a cup car,just get one of them.
For a big car i am amazed how nimble the latest car is,i had my geo re set to factory as it had settled from new,camber and toe were out.
Mine's on 1500 miles now and one track day..What mileage was on yours when you decided it needed the geo reset to factory spec..I really like the way it handles for a road car as it is..It doesn't follow cambers or white lines but feels it needs a slight tweak for track work without compromising road use..I've got it booked in to my OPC just before the RS day to check if the geo has settled from new and if so return it to factory spec for now to see if i feel it needs a mild tweak later on in the year..

gt3rswp

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Taffy66 said:
Mine's on 1500 miles now and one track day..What mileage was on yours when you decided it needed the geo reset to factory spec..I really like the way it handles for a road car as it is..It doesn't follow cambers or white lines but feels it needs a slight tweak for track work without compromising road use..I've got it booked in to my OPC just before the RS day to check if the geo has settled from new and if so return it to factory spec for now to see if i feel it needs a mild tweak later on in the year..
Stick with your plan. When I had my steering wheel centre fitted they had to do a full geo to get it straight. The car was about 2k miles at the time and everything had settled and was slightly out of kilter.

Taffy66

5,964 posts

101 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
quotequote all
gt3rswp said:
Stick with your plan. When I had my steering wheel centre fitted they had to do a full geo to get it straight. The car was about 2k miles at the time and everything had settled and was slightly out of kilter.
That's a coincidence as i decided to get a geo done as i was booked in to fit the Carbon steering wheel..It should be at 2k miles by then depending on weather and time permitting..Interesting that a full geo was needed to align the refitted steering wheel..Out of interest did they charge you for the geo or was it included in the recall..PM me if you prefer..

robgt3

Original Poster:

2,585 posts

161 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Well it is home at last after a visit to Litchfield who have applied 12 coats of their PPS ( Plastic Protection Spray) to include 1 of lacquer. The paintwork was adjudged to be very good and needed very little attention before doing so. It is worth saying what an extremely efficient, organised and nice company they are to deal with. The attention to detail they undertook was amazing; unlike conventional PPF there are no edges to be seen plus the spray is much more resistant to chipping damage. amongst the plethora of 1,000 BHP Nissan GTR's I was really surprised to see so many Porsche's who were all in to have Litchfield's magic worked on them. A certain Chris Harris has his cars fettled there as well, we saw 2 of them.

Anyway our new RS. Difficult to describe too many differences as we have only driven to Litchfield from Leeds and then back home. After much debate we have decided our Lizard made us smile from the moment I opened the garage doors to closing them. This Silver Weissach car just looks a lot more serious!
There is no doubt the sound initially is a little muted which is where this post first started. I'm now assured things music up as the revs rise; time will tell as I don't think I have ventured past 4000 rpm. Pick up is definetly quicker, the gearchanging even faster both of which must be down to the individual throttle bodies. Of couse it feels brilliant to be back in this awesome car as it was in our Lizard, this one has dialed things up even more.

All this begs the question was it worth the not unsubstantial amount we needed to change? Course it was!

robgt3

Original Poster:

2,585 posts

161 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
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Litchfield remove the panels to effect their PPS.







Porsche911R

21,146 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th February 2020
quotequote all
Twinfan said:
Am I missing something - if a GPF car had 520bhp and the non-GPF car also had 520bhp, why would the GPF car be slower? Something to do with it spinning up slower due to increased back pressure?
At the top end the ppf cars struggle to get the higher flow out because it’s quite a big restriction in air flow.
Most wont notice at its mainly top end.
Go down hanger straight though above 120mph and like for like a non ppf car with the same bhp would pull away.
Porsche have done all sorts of tricks to keep the car faster, ItB , removal of the side mufflers, and ecu bhp increase.
Is a WP Uk ppf car faster, we will never know of course even with the tweaks. The USA cars will be.

But normal cars like the golf R , RS3 etc are just slower now than the outgoing models.

Company like dudon are seeing great gains in the GT3 with zero Ecu tweaks and just air flow mods. 30 to 45 bhp gains just with better air flow products.

Ppf are just extra air flow restrictiors.
Cars like your old 981 3,4 can produce 380bhp no issue.
Again the 981 GT4 can easy have 435bhp.

In the past NA tuning was rubbish 5 bhp gains. But in modern cars NA tuning can release loads now days as cars come with 4x 400 cell cats and now PPF'S and strangled Ecu maps to pass co2 tests.