992 GT3 - Will they be Obtainable?

[Geneve]

Porsche911R said:

Is what it is, yes you get 3% owners want one , nothing 100%.

Where do those statistics come from ?

I’ve done my time faffing about in buckets - from 2.7RSL to 991.2 Touring - but if I wanted a 992 GT3 (which I don’t) then it would be a Touring with the ‘Sports’ seats for regular road use.

[bigmowley]

Popped into my stealer today for a coffee and a chat. He took one look at me and said “you haven’t come in to order a GT3 have you!” Apparently since Monday he has been inundated with Porsche GT3 owning wannabes coming out of the woodwork, most of whom he hasn’t seen since the last one came out. His LOI list is very very long and the vast majority of people on it will be disappointed.
So much for “they will be easier to get than last time”.

Join the bun fight this way

[hunter 66]

Haha Local "stealer " .....but all kudos to Porsche another great GT car

[GT4RS]

bigmowley said:

Popped into my stealer today for a coffee and a chat. He took one look at me and said “you haven’t come in to order a GT3 have you!” Apparently since Monday he has been inundated with Porsche GT3 owning wannabes coming out of the woodwork, most of whom he hasn’t seen since the last one came out. His LOI list is very very long and the vast majority of people on it will be disappointed.
So much for “they will be easier to get than last time”.

Join the bun fight this way

That old chestnut, they tried the same with the 718 gt4 then started phoning customers they know who may like GT product and offered them build slots.

[Melvynr]

...

Edited by Melvynr on Saturday 28th November 19:07

[Melvynr]

Melvynr said:

Asked my local OPC guy how many allocations he expected to get, tried to give it the old how many cars have you had with us, I said none since your company has only been here for 1 year, but don't worry if you don't want my money I will spend it elsewhere.
Had the same with BM to buy a GTS, sent a form asking all personal details, told the dealer to tell them to go fook themselves, they still couldn't sell them all, same with the DTM, the ones that were unsold went to dealerships and pre-registered.
If people don't want your money then that's fine, shop elsewhere.

[Porsche911R]

Geneve said:

Porsche911R said:

Is what it is, yes you get 3% owners want one , nothing 100%.

Where do those statistics come from ?

I’ve done my time faffing about in buckets - from 2.7RSL to 991.2 Touring - but if I wanted a 992 GT3 (which I don’t) then it would be a Touring with the ‘Sports’ seats for regular road use.

The states are made up as no one ones, but the quote I made comes from 20 years experience in these cars and what sells and what dealers will buy from you.

What happened to the 991.2 touring . .?

[Phooey]

I think the comfort seats vs buckets is a done to death subject. There's no doubt a higher percentage of used-car buyers wanting the buckets, but there's still a healthy market of buyers not wanting them, and then a slightly smaller market of buyers not really giving a toss either way. My 2p and experience - buckets do add a bit more drama to the package, look cool and give the best chance of getting most money back come resale, but comfort seats are more comfortable and easier to live with - obviously. Buckets are a fashion accessory if you're not harnessing yourself in and using the car as it was intended. Nowt wrong with either choice, but don't diss the sensible person that wants the 'comfort' of a proper seat.

Edited by Phooey on Saturday 28th November 22:42

[hunter 66]

Also Buckets are for the taller driver

[NIgt3]

Porsche911R said:

Geneve said:

Porsche911R said:

Is what it is, yes you get 3% owners want one , nothing 100%.

Where do those statistics come from ?

I’ve done my time faffing about in buckets - from 2.7RSL to 991.2 Touring - but if I wanted a 992 GT3 (which I don’t) then it would be a Touring with the ‘Sports’ seats for regular road use.

The states are made up as no one ones, but the quote I made comes from 20 years experience in these cars and what sells and what dealers will buy from you.

What happened to the 991.2 touring . .?

You don’t need 20years experience driving these cars to realise which spec of each individual model is worth more, I mean 20 years experience of looking at the for sale ads would tell you that! Acknowledging the fact that quite a lot of people still order comfort spec gt3’s would surely tell us all that they don’t particularly care if their car’s are worth less money, they ordered them because they like them. Then you have other people who are completely obsessed with the spec of their Gt3, high lighting why their own choices are best and why others are not, sometimes even slagging other people’s personal cars in the process. I find it hilarious reading

[ChrisW.]

Porsche911R said:

800 Uk 991.2 GT3's ?

It's more like 650.
Split that down over 5 models, you end up with some of the rarest GT3's to date hence the very strong values as there is a market for all 5. And that’s without the comfort lemon spec cars !

How many ways can you cheese-pare a market ?

I hear that there are even fewer red ones ... (I actually prefer yellow but love leaf green, now that's a rare colour) ....

The series production for GT3's used to be around 250 and the equivalent 'RS about 130 ... are there real genuine driver enthusiasts for all the GT3's that are now in the market ?

And the must-have new is incredibly tedious when nobody with any sense can use the next-model increment in performance on the roads that they drive.

And then there is the GT4 (a much more practical car than any GT3 as a daily) ...

[Geneve]

Porsche911R said:

What happened to the 991.2 touring . .?

I sold it a few months after purchase.
It was intended as a regular use, long term keeper, but I was actually slightly disappointed with it as a ‘road car’ - especially in the U.K.
I found the folding buckets tedious at times, and my wife found the limited adjustment uncomfortable on longer trips. With Sports Seats I maybe have kept it.

[IMI A]

Geneve said:

Porsche911R said:

What happened to the 991.2 touring . .?

I sold it a few months after purchase.
It was intended as a regular use, long term keeper, but I was actually slightly disappointed with it as a ‘road car’ - especially in the U.K.
I found the folding buckets tedious at times, and my wife found the limited adjustment uncomfortable on longer trips. With Sports Seats I maybe have kept it.

Geneva are you the guy that’s had virtually every 911 since launch?

[Geneve]

IMI A said:

Geneva are you the guy that’s had virtually every 911 since launch?

No.
But I have have had a new one every 3 years since the mid-80s. So, two 3.2s, two 964s, two 993s, two 996s, two 997s and two 991s (alongside some long term classics).
In the early years, I used 911s as my only everyday car, doing c.15k mls pa.
Whilst there is no question that each new generation has been an improvement over the last, I do feel that the 992 is now unrecognisable as the the ‘911’ I grew up loving and enjoying.

[hunter 66]

The Wife ( hand brake ) is not meant to like being in the GT , that is a point . The GT's are so much softer now than say a 64RS , that they have become better daily drivers .But approaching mid 60's getting in and out more fun especially at 6 ft 4 in .
Then again getting in and out of race cars at driver changes is a shambles

[Cheib]

ChrisW. said:

The series production for GT3's used to be around 250 and the equivalent 'RS about 130 ... are there real genuine driver enthusiasts for all the GT3's that are now in the market ?

I don’t think there are. When 991.2 GT3 was launched the 991.1 was still above list...so by definition the market is in more of a state of equilibrium. Add another 600 plus cars ?

Also worth remembering that 991.2 GT3 RS and GT2 RS were delivered in smaller numbers here than they would have been because the factory stopped making EU cars after the Spring of 2018 GT3 RS would be below list in my opinion if we got our normal quota and GT2 RS are below list in the US. I know there was a second batch of GT3 RS later in the year but there are still less 991.2 GT3 RS than 991.1 GT3 RS in this country.

My guess is we’ll get over 1000 992 GT cars across GT3 and GT3 RS. Could quite possibly see 991.2 GT 3 £20k lowerr on the used market in a year.

[GT4RS]

Geneve said:

Porsche911R said:

What happened to the 991.2 touring . .?

I sold it a few months after purchase.
It was intended as a regular use, long term keeper, but I was actually slightly disappointed with it as a ‘road car’ - especially in the U.K.
I found the folding buckets tedious at times, and my wife found the limited adjustment uncomfortable on longer trips. With Sports Seats I maybe have kept it.



Goes to show it’s not all about looks, sports seats offer a higher level of comfort. 18 ways sports seats in my 991.2 and they are great. I’m not sure if I could personally live with buckets everyday as I’m not that flexible and like plenty of adjustment, seat heating is also very important to me in a car.

I do agree buckets and a cage adds a little bit of drama to the visual aspect of any car. Guess everyone has their own personal reasons for specing a car they want it and that’s how it should be. I guess with the 991 gt3 range is it would appear a lot of buyers specified there cars based on resale values rather than what they may of really wanted or needed in real life use.

I believe theres a chap on here, who has a gt3rs and has put sports seats in it and no cage, that tells me this person bought the car for him, as he wanted and probably enjoys and uses it a lot.

[ChrisW.]

I try very hard not to be stuck in my ways ... 'just looking at retirement and looking forward to better times when I can really drive and enjoy the little collection that I have created.

My most recent car is a modified 981GT4 ... but I've owned every generation of GT3 up to 991 and driven most RS of the 2 and 3 variety ... including some R's ....

There is something adorable about the interactive quality of the older cars for anybody with an ounce of mechanical empathy ... if I had to guess at a sweet spot I would say the 964 ... with the first GT3's hitting the high note in water cooled.

But each range has their comparatively affordable superstars ... '73 2,4S ? '89 3.2? 964RS of any variety ? I didn't really like the 993 (or the 968 for looks ?) 996 GT3 MkI ? and from there in 911 I start to struggle. I drove a 992C4S for four fast days in Germany last year and whilst very quick with four wheel steering and very comfortable, it felt a bit of an arcade game and it was a terror on very narrow roads.

On track the latest GT3's are formidable ... but who or what is doing the formidable bit ? The car that won't let you get yourself into trouble when the learning is finding the margins and sorting them out ?? I guess it depends what you want.

And the thought of a car that "somebody" at some stage could just turn-off ? That's just not me.

Not to forget the transaxle cars ... in my view the real sweet spot was the 944 with the Porsche engine ... I've just added a 944 Turbo Cup to my little collection. Road legal but a racer at heart.

Of course as EVO remind us there are inexpensive superstars out there ... I think the Yaris GRMN is a car which was under appreciated (as was the M3CSL) and a bargain at £17-20k at the moment (I paid full price for mine now with 14000 miles on the clock and a 2:12 at Oulton under it's belt ... this completed the running in at 1500 miles but it's not a track car ... the front pads lasted 80 mikes !). The MX5 30th anniversary is another ... but both could manage slightly more compliance in their suspension ... the MX5 is fairly described as brittle and speed bumps have to be taken slowly in the GRMN ... it really needs fast bump.

One comes back to the question ... where is the best fun to be had ? My opinion is that it's in the interaction and perceived star quality that this imbues, with maximum speed and noise now coming a very long way down the list ...

Unfortunately I believe that this is a direction of travel without a destination ... why cars are getting bigger, more automated and faster, I really can't comprehend.

Maybe Classic are back ... so long as they aren't all banned from city centres ! For the 1000 miles per year that many do and the joy they are to behold this could be very churlish of the powers that be ... but they have done worse.

Will Macron get re-elected ? France / Road tax / old cars banned from city centres / --- and now they want our fish in exchange for reciprocity on trade. Maybe I would like a few French nuclear power station in exchange for our trade reciprocity ...

And only 30 miles away ... the history that never ends ...

Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 29th November 10:04

[GT4RS]

Cheib said:

ChrisW. said:

The series production for GT3's used to be around 250 and the equivalent 'RS about 130 ... are there real genuine driver enthusiasts for all the GT3's that are now in the market ?

I don’t think there are. When 991.2 GT3 was launched the 991.1 was still above list...so by definition the market is in more of a state of equilibrium. Add another 600 plus cars ?

Also worth remembering that 991.2 GT3 RS and GT2 RS were delivered in smaller numbers here than they would have been because the factory stopped making EU cars after the Spring of 2018 GT3 RS would be below list in my opinion if we got our normal quota and GT2 RS are below list in the US. I know there was a second batch of GT3 RS later in the year but there are still less 991.2 GT3 RS than 991.1 GT3 RS in this country.

My guess is we’ll get over 1000 992 GT cars across GT3 and GT3 RS. Could quite possibly see 991.2 GT 3 £20k lowerr on the used market in a year.

I have to agree, can the market take another big batch of new GT cars. A nice low miles 991.2 gt3 can now be bought at 119k retail and that’s before the new 992 gt3 lands, trade bids must be around 15k to 10k below this given the current climate. There will be a fair few who want to move up to the newer 992 gt3, meaning the used GT cat market is only going to get more saturated with used cars and will these owners px there cars for low trade bids when historically a owner could of got out for wait they paid retail 3 years earlier.

It wouldn’t shock me if we see 800 plus 992 gt3 cars, plus a big batch of 992 gt3 rs cars.

[Porsche911R]

ChrisW. said:

How many ways can you cheese-pare a market ?

I hear that there are even fewer red ones ... (I actually prefer yellow but love leaf green, now that's a rare colour) ....

The series production for GT3's used to be around 250 and the equivalent 'RS about 130 ... are there real genuine driver enthusiasts for all the GT3's that are now in the market ?

And the must-have new is incredibly tedious when nobody with any sense can use the next-model increment in performance on the roads that they drive.

And then there is the GT4 (a much more practical car than any GT3 as a daily) ...

Hi Chris, before GT3's were all manual, then the 991.1 were all PDK, the 991.2 was split at least into 3 cars, PDK, manual and touring. That’s just the facts of the model. So if a buyer wants a manual you have a pick from circa 300 cars that’s it.
If you want a touring the pick is just 48, and then if you want PDK the rest.
My spec or red has nothing to do with anything, all I do is post real stat's over a poster saying there are more than ever and 800 odd cars, but as a buyer the choice of car is pretty rare.

The GT4 was and still is a great car, my issue for a daily were 3 things, no lift so no real park park use and the issue on the daft long warm up times of over 5 miles and very low mpg, any short trip was wrecking the car and only giving you back 12 mpg on short runs. It was even worse than my V8 M3 ! As I keep my cars I hated any short run as we all know that just causes a mess with engine wear and condensation and sludge build up issues.

The 991.2 GT3's oil warms up in 3/4 of a mile and the car can do 30mpg and if you do think about spec you have lift to park in the city multi-storey car parks, in my city lei 90% road parking has vanished, so if you visit now you are forced into multi story parking.

It's great we have a choice, but the pool of cars is much much lower as a buyer that’s just the numbers.

Last comforts for the thread, I follow Gt cars for 20 odd years, from the dream of owning one (996) to buying my 1st and now owning the current with mates owing a few in between.
A 996 and 997 comfort don’t sell very well, there are mint cars for sale which have been for sale 18months !!! at upto £15k less than CS spec.
But in the last few months I have seen at least 8 997 CS cars sell and sell within days if tier one service history.
When I bought my 996 GT3 there was a grey comfort which must have gone to 6 dealers, none could sell it, the market is so so tiny that any older comfort buyer has already prob got one by now.
A lot of dealers won't buy a comfort hence you see a few at non 3rd party Porsche dealers as they DO NOT know the market.
, they want a bit of this Gt hype, sadly they get stuck with them.
A dealer who know's Porsche won’t buy one with their money , yes you see them but SOR.
And righty so, as a dealer why stock a car which might not sell for 2 years !!!
Why market demand and specs upset people on a forum is odd.
People buy what they like but then moan about being stuck with a car they cannot sell as they refuse advice from people who know a little more due to being keen market follower.
Even OPC won’t spec comfort cars for stock any more, took years but they caught on in the end.
There are zero manual Cayman R for sale today but 9 PDK lemons, there is one 997 GTS Manual for sale,and about 20 PDK,
Spyders the same, even Parragon ***** up and bid on some PDK cars at auction , they still have them. No such thing as a cheap PDK as they are lemons to sell.
Even the new 991 T has gone the same route the sellers being manual bucket seated cars which sell on point.
Yes people buy comforts but it’s single digit % 2nd hand.
New it’s a higher % but they are not owned and on GFV hand backs.

Edited by Porsche911R on Sunday 29th November 10:26