997.1 gt3 cs on collecting cars
Discussion
Thanks for explaining the minefield of 997.1 GT3 ownership. The owner is based in Sussex.
When a car is part of a larger collection it can sometimes miss out on maintenance as it gets no use. I would worry more if the was the only car at the owners disposal, lack of maintenance would be a problem.
I have called Porsche re putting a Porsche warranty on the car, not possible as the car will be past it’s 15th birthday at the expiry of the warranty.
I’ll most likely use Steve at Jaz Porsche for maintenance as he looks after my 964.
When a car is part of a larger collection it can sometimes miss out on maintenance as it gets no use. I would worry more if the was the only car at the owners disposal, lack of maintenance would be a problem.
I have called Porsche re putting a Porsche warranty on the car, not possible as the car will be past it’s 15th birthday at the expiry of the warranty.
I’ll most likely use Steve at Jaz Porsche for maintenance as he looks after my 964.
It's not who i thought it was then,
when you Posted that Pic of the garage with the other cars in it my heart sank.... It's not been the Only car in that collection, And i doubt very much missing an Oil change will cause the the car to implode, Baring in mind it's been in storage.
I hope you enjoy the Car and get some miles under your belt,
amazing how brave a keyboard can make a man. i wont write stuff here that i wouldnt be happy to say to someone's face. not sure the same can be said for some of the more prolific posters on this thread.
and as has been said already. the cs car will now set a precedent that i am almost sure will somehow feed into the market. it will give dealers something to chew over when they set their buyers' budgets for 997.1 gt3's
and as has been said already. the cs car will now set a precedent that i am almost sure will somehow feed into the market. it will give dealers something to chew over when they set their buyers' budgets for 997.1 gt3's
Edited by RC1 on Saturday 4th July 18:03
GTSJOE said:
I don’t know how you can call the GT Silver car I bought as tatty, you haven’t seen the car close up. The previous owner has an outstanding car collection, looked after by the best in the business. As explained in the CC write up; the car was off the road for 18months, stored with Jordan’s Car Storage.
Get a life and stop slagging off cars that don’t live up to your exacting standards.
Look, not slagging the car off, you paid what I said it was worth.Get a life and stop slagging off cars that don’t live up to your exacting standards.
Buyer happy and seller happy I hope.
Does not change my report on the car because you bought it though. I am 100% honest on PH and it can come across bad now we have a real owner, so sorry if it sounds offending.
But it was a car up at auction and I gave advice on it at the time.
Forget the service gap, it’s tatty in 6 or 7 area's, is what it is, but I valued the car based on that and you bought it at that.
I cannot wind back the clock now you own it and now say how amazing it is :-)
you bought well and it’s your choice to either just drive it or spend some money on it.
It’s not the new .1 GT3 price like people state, I wish it was, I am after one :-) and I don’t care who’s owned or looked after it.
I wish you well and again sorry if my view was offending.
82 DVY said:
Hi chaps, the Red GT3 you see for private sale is my car. I'm happy to take any question you might have on it. I'm a Porsche enthusiast at the perfectionist/nerdy end of the scale and Porsche is my passion.
I'm in my third year of ownership and it is a lovely, lovely car - my 6th Porsche. The reason it is for sale is an opportunity to move house for the benefit of my family. I'm lucky to own a few other cars so all is not lost and I am more than happy to put my family first.
Some of you will appreciate the provenance and solid maintenance schedules of a car like this, as do I. I'm the forth owner of the car and in contact with all three prior owners - I contacted all the prior owners to discus the car before i purchased it and verify all the records and history of this GT3 - 3 very nice gentlemen owners.
I bought the car from Porsche Colchester after a thorough inspection and checking all of the diagnostics and rev-ranges with my own Durametric. It has a complete history file of all records and a copy of it's magazine feature.
There are certainly cheaper cars out there, equally those more expensive, being a serial owner i can testify the value in these cars should be viewed by how they are maintained and treated rather than the sticker price alone, it's also the best way to avoid a nasty maintenance shock!
Again I'm happy to answer questions so feel free to ask.
I appreciate the provenance and solid maintenance schedules :-)I'm in my third year of ownership and it is a lovely, lovely car - my 6th Porsche. The reason it is for sale is an opportunity to move house for the benefit of my family. I'm lucky to own a few other cars so all is not lost and I am more than happy to put my family first.
Some of you will appreciate the provenance and solid maintenance schedules of a car like this, as do I. I'm the forth owner of the car and in contact with all three prior owners - I contacted all the prior owners to discus the car before i purchased it and verify all the records and history of this GT3 - 3 very nice gentlemen owners.
I bought the car from Porsche Colchester after a thorough inspection and checking all of the diagnostics and rev-ranges with my own Durametric. It has a complete history file of all records and a copy of it's magazine feature.
There are certainly cheaper cars out there, equally those more expensive, being a serial owner i can testify the value in these cars should be viewed by how they are maintained and treated rather than the sticker price alone, it's also the best way to avoid a nasty maintenance shock!
Again I'm happy to answer questions so feel free to ask.
Good luck with the sale, shame I am not in the market atm .
I prefer to buy from the nerdy end of the scale myself.
ArchiesDad said:
You'll be able to show everyone how brave you are then if you're going to the C&M meeting, i agree, theres nothing worse than somebody giving it big licks from behind a keyboard,
Brave ? i gave a report on a car at auction, and valued it.Not been nasty to any one ?
I don’t get the witch hunt yet again from being honest.
More people slagging off the red car and talking the price down on that !
Funny thing forums.
RC1 said:
amazing how brave a keyboard can make a man. i wont write stuff here that i wouldnt be happy to say to someone's face. not sure the same can be said for some of the more prolific posters on this thread.
and as has been said already. the cs car will now set a precedent that i am almost sure will somehow feed into the market. it will give dealers something to chew over when they set their buyers' budgets for 997.1 gt3's
Dealers aren’t daft, if it was worth buying at that price for the trade, the likes of Ashgoods would of snapped it up. The new owner of the silver car bought at current market levels, there’s nothing else to say about that car and it’s for the new owner to enjoy as he’s the lucky chap who’s now has the pleasure of owning it at current market levels and I wish him well.and as has been said already. the cs car will now set a precedent that i am almost sure will somehow feed into the market. it will give dealers something to chew over when they set their buyers' budgets for 997.1 gt3's
Edited by RC1 on Saturday 4th July 18:03
Sadly no matter how anyone dresses it up the truth of the matter is the red car with aftermarket gold wheel paint, covered in stickers Isn’t worth 15k more than the silver car which has just sold.
Get a buy bid off a dealer for any car at the moment and you will realise it isn’t a sellers market, the dressed up red car would be lucky to get a trade bid at early 60k imo.
You only have to regularly look at the classifieds to know how long some of these none selling 997 gt3 cars have been for sale for.
It’s out there for everyone to see, Ashgoods sold a beautiful low mileage Porsche warranty one recently at 69k or a tad less. The buyer of the silver car paid 63.5k plus 6% fees.
What makes people think there car is so much better to be worth 84k, 82k or 78k.
Just doesn’t add up.
GT4RS said:
Dealers aren’t daft, if it was worth buying at that price for the trade, the likes of Ashgoods would of snapped it up. The new owner of the silver car bought at current market levels, there’s nothing else to say about that car and it’s for the new owner to enjoy as he’s the lucky chap who’s now has the pleasure of owning it at current market levels and I wish him well.
Sadly no matter how anyone dresses it up the truth of the matter is the red car with aftermarket gold wheel paint, covered in stickers Isn’t worth 15k more than the silver car which has just sold.
Get a buy bid off a dealer for any car at the moment and you will realise it isn’t a sellers market, the dressed up red car would be lucky to get a trade bid at early 60k imo.
You only have to regularly look at the classifieds to know how long some of these none selling 997 gt3 cars have been for sale for.
It’s out there for everyone to see, Ashgoods sold a beautiful low mileage Porsche warranty one recently at 69k or a tad less. The buyer of the silver car paid 63.5k plus 6% fees.
What makes people think there car is so much better to be worth 84k, 82k or 78k.
Just doesn’t add up.
Bit rude when talking about someone's pride and joy.Sadly no matter how anyone dresses it up the truth of the matter is the red car with aftermarket gold wheel paint, covered in stickers Isn’t worth 15k more than the silver car which has just sold.
Get a buy bid off a dealer for any car at the moment and you will realise it isn’t a sellers market, the dressed up red car would be lucky to get a trade bid at early 60k imo.
You only have to regularly look at the classifieds to know how long some of these none selling 997 gt3 cars have been for sale for.
It’s out there for everyone to see, Ashgoods sold a beautiful low mileage Porsche warranty one recently at 69k or a tad less. The buyer of the silver car paid 63.5k plus 6% fees.
What makes people think there car is so much better to be worth 84k, 82k or 78k.
Just doesn’t add up.
The red car seems decent value given the condition, and the silver car was great value for money.
Porsche911R said:
Brave ? i gave a report on a car at auction, and valued it.
Not been nasty to any one ?
I don’t get the witch hunt yet again from being honest.
More people slagging off the red car and talking the price down on that !
Funny thing forums.
I was actually responding to RC1, Who posted something about keyboards making a man feel brave ! And something about saying it their face and not being sure about the more prolific posters on this thread, Not been nasty to any one ?
I don’t get the witch hunt yet again from being honest.
More people slagging off the red car and talking the price down on that !
Funny thing forums.
Well, i've been quite prolific posting on this thread, so i'm taking that as being directed towards me, And whilst its all fine dandy throwing gestures about "WHILE ACTUALLY SITTING BEHIND HIS KEYBOARD "? I'm more than happy for anybody to say what they like to my face.
Getting back to the subject that seems to have gotten everybody so riled, which has got nothing to do with anybody other than the bloke who bought the car off CC, Seems to have gotten everybody so worked up because like it or not this is where the market is, irrespective of it's worth £80K, If it was it would have sold for £80K.
Judging that car, RAW..... as per the pics highlights that it is a 13 year old car ! And there are people whining that it's had points knocked off for a hole in the fabric, which need changing any way, or that it has PPF or a missing service. It's 13 years old.... people who want that kind of provonance either buy new, dont buy at all and certainly dont buy off an auction site where cars are off loaded.
It was an honest unmolested example of one of the finest engined cars ever made, it was unmolsted and had been in a collection worth Millions..... so it had a missing service, whilst in service that was done independently.
If the red car with it's stickers and Gold wheels is £80K then stick it in the auction and lets see what it fetches, because as it stands, there are going to be some long faces, it's all well and good pretending that the market is higher than it is and that your going to buy, i can get you a GT Silver GT3 with 7K miles on the clock, it does not have 10 services tho as it has been serviced as per the manufacturers recommendations.
Phooey said:
GT4RS said:
Dealers aren’t daft, if it was worth buying at that price for the trade, the likes of Ashgoods would of snapped it up. The new owner of the silver car bought at current market levels, there’s nothing else to say about that car and it’s for the new owner to enjoy as he’s the lucky chap who’s now has the pleasure of owning it at current market levels and I wish him well.
Sadly no matter how anyone dresses it up the truth of the matter is the red car with aftermarket gold wheel paint, covered in stickers Isn’t worth 15k more than the silver car which has just sold.
Get a buy bid off a dealer for any car at the moment and you will realise it isn’t a sellers market, the dressed up red car would be lucky to get a trade bid at early 60k imo.
You only have to regularly look at the classifieds to know how long some of these none selling 997 gt3 cars have been for sale for.
It’s out there for everyone to see, Ashgoods sold a beautiful low mileage Porsche warranty one recently at 69k or a tad less. The buyer of the silver car paid 63.5k plus 6% fees.
What makes people think there car is so much better to be worth 84k, 82k or 78k.
Just doesn’t add up.
Bit rude when talking about someone's pride and joy.Sadly no matter how anyone dresses it up the truth of the matter is the red car with aftermarket gold wheel paint, covered in stickers Isn’t worth 15k more than the silver car which has just sold.
Get a buy bid off a dealer for any car at the moment and you will realise it isn’t a sellers market, the dressed up red car would be lucky to get a trade bid at early 60k imo.
You only have to regularly look at the classifieds to know how long some of these none selling 997 gt3 cars have been for sale for.
It’s out there for everyone to see, Ashgoods sold a beautiful low mileage Porsche warranty one recently at 69k or a tad less. The buyer of the silver car paid 63.5k plus 6% fees.
What makes people think there car is so much better to be worth 84k, 82k or 78k.
Just doesn’t add up.
The red car seems decent value given the condition, and the silver car was great value for money.
Or are you referring to my opinion on where I think values stand? If so I haven’t said anything which isn’t for all to see.
I’m not being rude, I’m just saying what in the pictures and what the current market is doing?
ArchiesDad said:
Porsche911R said:
Brave ? i gave a report on a car at auction, and valued it.
Not been nasty to any one ?
I don’t get the witch hunt yet again from being honest.
More people slagging off the red car and talking the price down on that !
Funny thing forums.
I was actually responding to RC1, Who posted something about keyboards making a man feel brave ! And something about saying it their face and not being sure about the more prolific posters on this thread, Not been nasty to any one ?
I don’t get the witch hunt yet again from being honest.
More people slagging off the red car and talking the price down on that !
Funny thing forums.
Well, i've been quite prolific posting on this thread, so i'm taking that as being directed towards me, And whilst its all fine dandy throwing gestures about "WHILE ACTUALLY SITTING BEHIND HIS KEYBOARD "? I'm more than happy for anybody to say what they like to my face.
Getting back to the subject that seems to have gotten everybody so riled, which has got nothing to do with anybody other than the bloke who bought the car off CC, Seems to have gotten everybody so worked up because like it or not this is where the market is, irrespective of it's worth £80K, If it was it would have sold for £80K.
Judging that car, RAW..... as per the pics highlights that it is a 13 year old car ! And there are people whining that it's had points knocked off for a hole in the fabric, which need changing any way, or that it has PPF or a missing service. It's 13 years old.... people who want that kind of provonance either buy new, dont buy at all and certainly dont buy off an auction site where cars are off loaded.
It was an honest unmolested example of one of the finest engined cars ever made, it was unmolsted and had been in a collection worth Millions..... so it had a missing service, whilst in service that was done independently.
If the red car with it's stickers and Gold wheels is £80K then stick it in the auction and lets see what it fetches, because as it stands, there are going to be some long faces, it's all well and good pretending that the market is higher than it is and that your going to buy, i can get you a GT Silver GT3 with 7K miles on the clock, it does not have 10 services tho as it has been serviced as per the manufacturers recommendations.
ArchiesDad said:
I was actually responding to RC1, Who posted something about keyboards making a man feel brave ! And something about saying it their face and not being sure about the more prolific posters on this thread,
Well, i've been quite prolific posting on this thread, so i'm taking that as being directed towards me,
no need to respond to me. i wasnt directing anything towards you.Well, i've been quite prolific posting on this thread, so i'm taking that as being directed towards me,
People with a vested interest (owners) will talk the market up, people looking (buyers) will talk it down. It's always been the way.
Like it or not 997.1 GT3's are being let go by their current owners and bought in the £60 K's with trade probably bidding in the late £50 k's.
These are not investments, they're cars and they cost money to service, insure and tax which will further put pressure on those who bought as a trophy to offload.
Like it or not 997.1 GT3's are being let go by their current owners and bought in the £60 K's with trade probably bidding in the late £50 k's.
These are not investments, they're cars and they cost money to service, insure and tax which will further put pressure on those who bought as a trophy to offload.
I’m hesitant to post on this topic as it seems to have become very polarised, but as the owner of one of these cars i'll step forward. Obviously I do not know how many people in this discussion are current owners or what depth of knowledge commentators have on these cars, but I will give a view from the perspective of an enthusiast and owner.
Reference servicing. It seems public opinion has been skewed by the convenience of 2 year servicing intervals on products like the Macan vs a motorsport product. The Mezger engine, as we refer to it, is a motorsport derivative that has since inception required annual servicing under the conditions of road use (e.g. same engine found in the 996.1), however as public opinion has moved to require the convenience of 2 year servicing intervals, Porsche simply moved the goal posts to accommodate. The 997.1 GT3 in particular has now passed 12 years old and will/should have had its biggest service to date on that anniversary; a major + plugs + poly belt + brake fluid + transmission oil.
A car that is tracked is recommend by Porsche motorsport to have a fluid change every 500-1,000 miles. Cup cars to have a fluid change after every event. Personally you might not agree with the recommendation but this is simply a case of preventative maintenance. The car I own is not tracked (hence the Michelin PS2 road tyres), so I chose to default to a 1 year service interval.
The car on CC I’ve not seen in person. Objectively it sold for a fair price in an unsighted auction given the condition and mileage. I believe most 997.1 GT3 buyers are not likely to buy in this fashion (they might not have even visited that site), hence you exclude many potential buyers – but for the winning bidder the price is attractive if you take the chance. The sale price also gives scope to catch up on maintenance and cosmetics which I’m sure the buyer takes into consideration.
I’ve seen some comments that quote a value difference of my advertised car and the all-in CC sale price of 15K - this is not true so I just wanted to correct that. The difference is almost bang on £10K. Account for 14k mileage difference, history, any remedial work, corrective maintenance, cosmetics, lacquer/paint, transmission oil, plugs, etc. then you might find you arrive almost at the same price between the two.
What I will take from this is that some folk have a view on Porsche Aurum Gold vs Silver wheels and also the decals are divisive (I’ll happily peel them off, that will be my job this morning for next 10 minutes!). Enjoy your weekend.
Rob
Reference servicing. It seems public opinion has been skewed by the convenience of 2 year servicing intervals on products like the Macan vs a motorsport product. The Mezger engine, as we refer to it, is a motorsport derivative that has since inception required annual servicing under the conditions of road use (e.g. same engine found in the 996.1), however as public opinion has moved to require the convenience of 2 year servicing intervals, Porsche simply moved the goal posts to accommodate. The 997.1 GT3 in particular has now passed 12 years old and will/should have had its biggest service to date on that anniversary; a major + plugs + poly belt + brake fluid + transmission oil.
A car that is tracked is recommend by Porsche motorsport to have a fluid change every 500-1,000 miles. Cup cars to have a fluid change after every event. Personally you might not agree with the recommendation but this is simply a case of preventative maintenance. The car I own is not tracked (hence the Michelin PS2 road tyres), so I chose to default to a 1 year service interval.
The car on CC I’ve not seen in person. Objectively it sold for a fair price in an unsighted auction given the condition and mileage. I believe most 997.1 GT3 buyers are not likely to buy in this fashion (they might not have even visited that site), hence you exclude many potential buyers – but for the winning bidder the price is attractive if you take the chance. The sale price also gives scope to catch up on maintenance and cosmetics which I’m sure the buyer takes into consideration.
I’ve seen some comments that quote a value difference of my advertised car and the all-in CC sale price of 15K - this is not true so I just wanted to correct that. The difference is almost bang on £10K. Account for 14k mileage difference, history, any remedial work, corrective maintenance, cosmetics, lacquer/paint, transmission oil, plugs, etc. then you might find you arrive almost at the same price between the two.
What I will take from this is that some folk have a view on Porsche Aurum Gold vs Silver wheels and also the decals are divisive (I’ll happily peel them off, that will be my job this morning for next 10 minutes!). Enjoy your weekend.
Rob
Wow there is some rhetoric in these ten pages. I should start by congratulating the buyer for buying a car at a good price. So congratulations, I hope you get many years pleasure from her (as the bishop said top the groom).
The bottom line is Porsche owners and GT owners in particular are typically of older years and often stuck in their ways and therefore also particularly averse to risk. With that in mind they only like OEM and don't like anything 'off piste' - a fag hole (aka wear and tear), stickers, non OEM colour wheels, aftermarket cages, aftermarket wheels, a service 'glitch' et cetera et cetera.
Sadly this is the market we sell to. To me I am not bothered although I may sometimes be influenced by the group. I bought a Comfort specification that has been converted to Clubsport (but will NEVER pass muster with many on here despite being 'updated' with OEM modifications). It has also had a colour change. I know it is only worth 2 pence but I enjoy driving it and that is all that matters. You are a long time dead and will depart only with what you came.
Missed an oil service - burn him (it).
If all the older (I refer to 996 and 997 GT3/RS) Porsche take a dip, good I say. All those stored and polished cars may finally be allowed to breathe on track where they belong. These are the last proper track cars that are 'fully' driver interactive.
The new GT/RS Porsche are the Playstation cars, RWS, parking sensors, satnav, BT phone, leather seats. For me they stop at being just faster and easier to drive not what I or many others want from a car. Anyone can drive fast in an 'auto'. They are for those that want something new but can't be bothered to make too much effort. I am quite happy to say that put someone in an older GT/RS who has not had much experience in a 996 or 996 variant but who loves and drives the 991/992 and they will be lost. The 991/992 GT/RSs are for the new market, the novelty seekers.
Pip
The bottom line is Porsche owners and GT owners in particular are typically of older years and often stuck in their ways and therefore also particularly averse to risk. With that in mind they only like OEM and don't like anything 'off piste' - a fag hole (aka wear and tear), stickers, non OEM colour wheels, aftermarket cages, aftermarket wheels, a service 'glitch' et cetera et cetera.
Sadly this is the market we sell to. To me I am not bothered although I may sometimes be influenced by the group. I bought a Comfort specification that has been converted to Clubsport (but will NEVER pass muster with many on here despite being 'updated' with OEM modifications). It has also had a colour change. I know it is only worth 2 pence but I enjoy driving it and that is all that matters. You are a long time dead and will depart only with what you came.
Missed an oil service - burn him (it).
If all the older (I refer to 996 and 997 GT3/RS) Porsche take a dip, good I say. All those stored and polished cars may finally be allowed to breathe on track where they belong. These are the last proper track cars that are 'fully' driver interactive.
The new GT/RS Porsche are the Playstation cars, RWS, parking sensors, satnav, BT phone, leather seats. For me they stop at being just faster and easier to drive not what I or many others want from a car. Anyone can drive fast in an 'auto'. They are for those that want something new but can't be bothered to make too much effort. I am quite happy to say that put someone in an older GT/RS who has not had much experience in a 996 or 996 variant but who loves and drives the 991/992 and they will be lost. The 991/992 GT/RSs are for the new market, the novelty seekers.
Pip
82 DVY said:
What I will take from this is that some folk have a view on Porsche Aurum Gold vs Silver wheels and also the decals are divisive (I’ll happily peel them off, that will be my job this morning for next 10 minutes!). Enjoy your weekend.
Rob
I would hate to be in trouble with you in a strong wind Rob
. I would not bother. I am sure any buyer will know these can be removed if he wishes just as he can change the wheel colour. Most posting on this forum are owners so not really your market.I am not up with pricing but am sure there will be some re-adjustment as the recession starts to bite. The market does tend to be slow ish on these cars anyway unless they are priced for a quick sale. I am sure the market will slow further in the current climate but am happy to be wrong. That said I am sure you can always take a little bit of a bath for the sake of your family if time critical and sell to a dealer - are they even buying - ?? Dealers too are probably holding off on stock.
Good luck.
Pip
Pip1968 said:
The bottom line is Porsche owners and GT owners in particular are typically of older years and often stuck in their ways and therefore also particularly averse to risk. With that in mind they only like OEM and don't like anything 'off piste' - a fag hole (aka wear and tear), stickers, non OEM colour wheels, aftermarket cages, aftermarket wheels, a service 'glitch' et cetera et cetera.
I’m not sure that’s true for 996 & 997.1 owners. I’ve found many to have had some sort of enhancement to the already brilliant cars (lightweight wheels, Cup diff, brakes and suspension upgrade etc)For me, that they’re so ‘tuneable’ and ‘mod-friendly’, are one of the main attractions of these cars.
I‘ve excluded the 997.2 as they’re probably still under warranty and have the pain in the butt centre lock wheels.
And I’m not old.
g7jhp said:
People with a vested interest (owners) will talk the market up, people looking (buyers) will talk it down. It's always been the way.
Like it or not 997.1 GT3's are being let go by their current owners and bought in the £60 K's
the last 2 retail bucket seated cars to sell were Jzm black one at £78k and 911 v one at £79kLike it or not 997.1 GT3's are being let go by their current owners and bought in the £60 K's
Ashgoods was nice but not a tier one car but sold in a day or so in a panic market which imo has calmed a bit.
Comforts need to drop and are doing so, bad sellers in the 2nd hand GT3 market and most have been for sale a year !
I see a dealers dropped his comfort to £65k but as the miles are higher it’s still too expensive.
Can I buy a sub 30k mile bucket seated car with a correct service history starting with a 6 ?
No and I cannot see it happening either.
Can I buy a 50k mile comfort starting with a 6.
Yes.
As always a range of cars at all prices, people forget the few cars which have just sold or maybe did not know about them as not looking.
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