997 Build

997 Build

Author
Discussion

LaurasOtherHalf

20,267 posts

163 months

Friday 28th May
quotequote all
Aesthetically a duck tale was never a very pretty thing, functionally effective but a rather blunt and ugly appendage.

It did however to my eyes work with the pre-'74 cars and the early G series tear-drop shape.

On anything modern, it just looks out of place-akin to wire wheels on a modern car.

I had one fitted to mine (it was originally a flat lid) and I think it worked, would have looked better if I'd have had the Fuchs done in classic petal finish but there you go...



Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Friday 28th May 06:27

Filibuster

1,849 posts

182 months

Friday 28th May
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Aesthetically a duck tale was never a very pretty thing, functionally effective but a rather blunt and ugly appendage.
Is that true tough? I was under the impression that the early ducktail had no aerodynamic benefit at all (although originally intended) and as such was rather a styling detail.

I do love ducktailes, if it suits the rest of the car. The car needs a retro vibe, imho.
I don't like them on the 991 onwards (or I have yet to see a car where it truly works), but on a 996 and 997 it can work really well!

Also on standard 964 and 993 they are odd (I'm not sure I have ever seen a 993 with ducktail, tbh).
On the CSR retro 996/7 cars they are sublime cloud9

Yellow491

2,173 posts

86 months

Friday 28th May
quotequote all
Filibuster said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Aesthetically a duck tale was never a very pretty thing, functionally effective but a rather blunt and ugly appendage.
Is that true tough? I was under the impression that the early ducktail had no aerodynamic benefit at all (although originally intended) and as such was rather a styling detail.

I do love ducktailes, if it suits the rest of the car. The car needs a retro vibe, imho.
I don't like them on the 991 onwards (or I have yet to see a car where it truly works), but on a 996 and 997 it can work really well!

Also on standard 964 and 993 they are odd (I'm not sure I have ever seen a 993 with ducktail, tbh).
On the CSR retro 996/7 cars they are sublime cloud9
Try driving a early 911 with no duck,then with one,night and day difference,far from Just styling, probably dont do much on a 996/7.
Good to see some one building a quality hotrod for himself and purpose.

Mike Oxlong

63 posts

126 months

Friday 28th May
quotequote all
I totally agree. Not all the styling to my taste but I appreciate this is a personal project and we are all different.

I do also admire the attention to detail .

IMI A

8,666 posts

168 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
Saw snakebite today at RPM. She's up for sale. V.impressed if i did not already have would have taken home with me.

ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all

I’d honestly struggle spending that much on a car like that !

I’ve dipped my toe in to GT3 territory and could justify a nice .1 997 in GT Silver...... just like the one sold on CC last year that I missed out on !

As intended and as it left the factory, I’m not a Duck Tail fan, as others have nodded to the Old classics and early RS, Fuchs wheels and 4 speed gear boxes ! Looks a bit desperate on something water cooled !

I’d want ceramic brakes and carbon backed factory buckets in that RPM car, the PCCM dele is a nice touch tho !

IMI A

8,666 posts

168 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
I think you have to set money aside (horrible subject) and different models and just look at it as a nice thing to own and drive. The owner has enjoyed and driven the car and other than some superficial road rash on sill the car looks faultless to me and has stood the few years since completion very well indeed. Whoever buys for £80k has nicked that 911 IMO as object of desire. I loved very retro.

Slippydiff

12,346 posts

190 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
ArchiesDad said:
I’d honestly struggle spending that much on a car like that !

I’ve dipped my toe in to GT3 territory and could justify a nice .1 997 in GT Silver...... just like the one sold on CC last year that I missed out on !

As intended and as it left the factory, I’m not a Duck Tail fan, as others have nodded to the Old classics and early RS, Fuchs wheels and 4 speed gear boxes ! Looks a bit desperate on something water cooled !

I’d want ceramic brakes and carbon backed factory buckets in that RPM car, the PCCM dele is a nice touch tho !
Yep, the desperation is palpable in a ducktail on a watercooled 911 isn’t it ...



In fact it’s such a desperate styling addition, this example of a Sport Classic at DK Engineering sold despite its £190K asking price last year.



As the Yanks would say, go figure wink
Fortunately we all all have different tastes, and one man’s “desperate” is another man’s perfection. You might want to try remembering that in the future.

ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all

You quite clearly like ducktails on modern Porsche cars. As you say it’s perfection in your eyes, my problem is I’ve not got your eyes in, and from the picture you posted of the sport classic its pretty obvious you’ve dropped the £190K on it ! You don’t have to justify yourself in posting the pics or quoting it’s apparent value.

As everyone else seems to suggest, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Louis Vuitton hand bags are worth a lot more than 911’s and apparently they’re lovely or you have no taste.

From your post justifying your purchase it would appear I fall in the “I have no taste” category.
If I liked ducktails as much as you I too would have purchased one. But I don’t so I didn’t !
Personally I prefer a winged spoiler so I bought a 911 with one fitted from the factory.


g7jhp

6,576 posts

205 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
I like the standard flat lid or ducktail on the 997.





No right or wrongs just personal preference.

IMI A

8,666 posts

168 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
I have to admit loving the purple 996 with ducktail and the Sport Classic too. Obviously do not love the price. Think they're £300k actually! Back to 997 builds I think they're brill. I can't wait to zoop mine up!

LordHaveMurci

10,753 posts

136 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
Personally I think ducktails look great on 996/997’s but wings look too ‘try hard’ for my liking.

Each to their own smile

LaurasOtherHalf

20,267 posts

163 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
Filibuster said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Aesthetically a duck tale was never a very pretty thing, functionally effective but a rather blunt and ugly appendage.
Is that true tough? I was under the impression that the early ducktail had no aerodynamic benefit at all (although originally intended) and as such was rather a styling detail.
Very much so, Porsche even published a comparison graph at the time.

https://images.app.goo.gl/8nVpse1NZp2gSKUR6

Note it's all about reduction in lift across both axles rather than "downforce". As yellow says, try both and the difference, especially i crosswinds at motorway speeds is night and day.

ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
g7jhp said:
I like the standard flat lid or ducktail on the 997.





No right or wrongs just personal preference.
I spent many years waiting to get a 911 so I could see if the rear deck lid lifted in the rear mirror and when it came to it I bought one without ?

Just for the record, while we’re on about retro nods to yesteryears, I don’t like the Fuchs style wheels either on modern Porsche cars. But that’s clearly another story..... deviating away from the original thread and how different opinions vary so much.

On the original cars yes I totally get it, on modern day cars it looks like “I wasn’t quite sure what to do so I went with the originals” 40 years later ? The 50th wheels however. A modern take on a classic. They’re not Fuchs wheels they are a modern day equivalent in looks, casting and strength.
I wouldn’t put LED fogs on a gen.1 997 because I think they look cheap. My opinion of course and that’s why I haven’t done it ! Some folk have and they love them.

A duck tail looks to me like a solution born out of necessity ! Moulded in the body shop stick it on and see if it works.
The Sport Classic back end looks more like a duck bill platypus than a duck tail?

PGNSagaris

2,543 posts

133 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
You’re wrong. Ducktails are cool


Yellow491

2,173 posts

86 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
A duck tail is cooler than cool eh slippy

Slippydiff

12,346 posts

190 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
Yellow491 said:
A duck tail is cooler than cool eh slippy
Nuff said Paul wink

Slippydiff

12,346 posts

190 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
ArchiesDad said:
I spent many years waiting to get a 911 so I could see if the rear deck lid lifted in the rear mirror and when it came to it I bought one without ?

Just for the record, while we’re on about retro nods to yesteryears, I don’t like the Fuchs style wheels either on modern Porsche cars. But that’s clearly another story..... deviating away from the original thread and how different opinions vary so much.

On the original cars yes I totally get it, on modern day cars it looks like “I wasn’t quite sure what to do so I went with the originals” 40 years later ? The 50th wheels however. A modern take on a classic. They’re not Fuchs wheels they are a modern day equivalent in looks, casting and strength.
I wouldn’t put LED fogs on a gen.1 997 because I think they look cheap. My opinion of course and that’s why I haven’t done it ! Some folk have and they love them.

A duck tail looks to me like a solution born out of necessity ! Moulded in the body shop stick it on and see if it works.
The Sport Classic back end looks more like a duck bill platypus than a duck tail?
Keep digging ... rolleyes


ArchiesDad said:
You quite clearly like ducktails on modern Porsche cars. As you say it’s perfection in your eyes, my problem is I’ve not got your eyes in, and from the picture you posted of the sport classic its pretty obvious you’ve dropped the £190K on it ! You don’t have to justify yourself in posting the pics or quoting it’s apparent value.

As everyone else seems to suggest, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Louis Vuitton hand bags are worth a lot more than 911’s and apparently they’re lovely or you have no taste.

From your post justifying your purchase it would appear I fall in the “I have no taste” category.
If I liked ducktails as much as you I too would have purchased one. But I don’t so I didn’t !
Personally I prefer a winged spoiler so I bought a 911 with one fitted from the factory.
That's a hugely impressive amount of assumptions you've managed to crowbar into a single post. But a bit like your initial broad brush, "anyone who has a ducktail on a watercooled car appears desperate" post, you're "opinions" are wrong.

I've not bought a 997 Sport Classic, nor have I built an homage. Ergo, I have no purchase to justify rolleyes So not close, and definitely no cigar, merely just another of your half arsed assumptions.

I quite clearly like ducktails do I ? Well no actually, I just don't think anyone that has a W/C car fitted with one is worthy of being tagged as "appearing desperate" by a narrow minded bigot such as yourself.

And for the record I didn't say I thought they were "perfection". That's another of your assumptions.

Would I have one ? quite possibly.

Do I feel the need to post on a public forum that anyone who does have one fitted appears desperate ? No.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, if you like them, feel free to say so, just don't think your view (or indeed taste) is anymore valid than anyone else's, least of all when you're openly disrespectful of other peoples choices.

An interesting "rant" on Fuchs wheels you've posted. As I understand it, the 17/18 & 19" Fuchs wheels are made using the same techniques as the originals.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/pdf/print/9efaaede-46...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rWYPhUOoTI

and for the record, an 11 X 19" 997 Carrera Sport wheel manufactured by BBS weighs in at 12,4kg.
The equivalent 19 X11 Fuchs wheel weighs in at 11,5 kg.

So what do we deduce from all this ? They look like a Fuchs wheel, are made from the same material as the original Fuchs wheels, manufactured using the same production technique as the original Fuchs wheels, Otto Fuchs manufacture them and call them a Fuchs wheel, yet some random, opinionated bloke on forum says they're not a Fuchs wheel, they're merely a pastiche.
Care to elucidate further Einstein ?

pete.g

1,484 posts

173 months

Saturday 29th May
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
ArchiesDad said:
I spent many years waiting to get a 911 so I could see if the rear deck lid lifted in the rear mirror and when it came to it I bought one without ?

Just for the record, while we’re on about retro nods to yesteryears, I don’t like the Fuchs style wheels either on modern Porsche cars. But that’s clearly another story..... deviating away from the original thread and how different opinions vary so much.

On the original cars yes I totally get it, on modern day cars it looks like “I wasn’t quite sure what to do so I went with the originals” 40 years later ? The 50th wheels however. A modern take on a classic. They’re not Fuchs wheels they are a modern day equivalent in looks, casting and strength.
I wouldn’t put LED fogs on a gen.1 997 because I think they look cheap. My opinion of course and that’s why I haven’t done it ! Some folk have and they love them.

A duck tail looks to me like a solution born out of necessity ! Moulded in the body shop stick it on and see if it works.
The Sport Classic back end looks more like a duck bill platypus than a duck tail?
Keep digging ... rolleyes


ArchiesDad said:
You quite clearly like ducktails on modern Porsche cars. As you say it’s perfection in your eyes, my problem is I’ve not got your eyes in, and from the picture you posted of the sport classic its pretty obvious you’ve dropped the £190K on it ! You don’t have to justify yourself in posting the pics or quoting it’s apparent value.

As everyone else seems to suggest, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Louis Vuitton hand bags are worth a lot more than 911’s and apparently they’re lovely or you have no taste.

From your post justifying your purchase it would appear I fall in the “I have no taste” category.
If I liked ducktails as much as you I too would have purchased one. But I don’t so I didn’t !
Personally I prefer a winged spoiler so I bought a 911 with one fitted from the factory.
That's a hugely impressive amount of assumptions you've managed to crowbar into a single post. But a bit like your initial broad brush, "anyone who has a ducktail on a watercooled car appears desperate" post, you're "opinions" are wrong.

I've not bought a 997 Sport Classic, nor have I built an homage. Ergo, I have no purchase to justify rolleyes So not close, and definitely no cigar, merely just another of your half arsed assumptions.

I quite clearly like ducktails do I ? Well no actually, I just don't think anyone that has a W/C car fitted with one is worthy of being tagged as "appearing desperate" by a narrow minded bigot such as yourself.

And for the record I didn't say I thought they were "perfection". That's another of your assumptions.

Would I have one ? quite possibly.

Do I feel the need to post on a public forum that anyone who does have one fitted appears desperate ? No.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, if you like them, feel free to say so, just don't think your view (or indeed taste) is anymore valid than anyone else's, least of all when you're openly disrespectful of other peoples choices.

An interesting "rant" on Fuchs wheels you've posted. As I understand it, the 17/18 & 19" Fuchs wheels are made using the same techniques as the originals.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/pdf/print/9efaaede-46...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rWYPhUOoTI

and for the record, an 11 X 19" 997 Carrera Sport wheel manufactured by BBS weighs in at 12,4kg.
The equivalent 19 X11 Fuchs wheel weighs in at 11,5 kg.

So what do we deduce from all this ? They look like a Fuchs wheel, are made from the same material as the original Fuchs wheels, manufactured using the same production technique as the original Fuchs wheels, Otto Fuchs manufacture them and call them a Fuchs wheel, yet some random, opinionated bloke on forum says they're not a Fuchs wheel, they're merely a pastiche.
Care to elucidate further Einstein ?
Seriously lads, do we need this? The OP has very kindly shared his build story and I have enjoyed this thread a lot, so I hope it doesn't become another spat.

ballans

227 posts

72 months

Sunday 30th May
quotequote all
Hi Jeweller. Thanks for documenting your build, been a really interesting read following your progress and a fantastic end result.
I’ve got an 07 C2S that I often think about selling as I know it’s going to need a bit of investment to get it exactly how I want it.
This has given me the motivation to actually get on with it.
Cheers!