The Porsche GT allocation system...a good video view
Discussion
Suggest the problem with the video is the representation of some pretty widely known issues as some kind of value-added, peek-behind-the-curtains insight.
Not many people really interested in these cars have missed the fact that production numbers are up dramatically on the latest few generations of GT cars versus the old ones. Or that the allocation process in the UK is a circus. Or that there's been a pandemic.
In so far as there is some actual analysis, at very least it lacks nuance. Yes many people are sour about the GT allocation process. But it's been like that for years and punters have kept beating each other up for access. The reality in this kind of luxury good market is that people complain about the process, but they love it when they secure an allocation and perceive that as a boost or reflection of high status etc.
The perception of difficult access / scarcity is certainly a core factor driving demand in GT cars. And watches. And whatever. Dicking people about like this is actually part of what keeps the circus going. If it was easy to just order a car, half the people buying them would lose interest. You'd no longer need to be 'special' to get an allocation.
His views on brand dilution are probably 20 years out of date, too. Apple has sold 2.2 billion iPhones. Rightly or wrongly, it remains the premium smartphone brand. Ze German car brands have maintain significant branding advantages over mainstream car makers despite huge increases in volumes. BMW still beats Hyundai by miles for brand image. Lambo, as he points out, used to sell a few hundred cars, and observes that it now sells thousands as if this is a bad thing. The business used to barely exist (indeed it nearly stopped existing many times). Now it's a far bigger business that actually makes money. Has the Lambo 'brand' suffered? Kind of academic given what the brand used to be added up to a borderline non-viable business.
There's also something fundamentally contradictory about the entire premise of the video. He first laments that the market for GT cars is full of speculators driving up prices. Then he chastises Porsche saying that oversupply the market which will scare off the speculators and see values implode. If he's complaining about the first problem, surely the following issue is the perfect solution. Lots of cheap GT cars for people to actually drive not confuse with investment instruments.
Anyway, the GT car circus in the UK was never going to last forever. Eventually it was always going to go titsup.com, be that due to chronic oversupply, economic meltdown or regulatory pressure or some combination of those and other factors.
From a commercial perspective, I dare say it's been a pretty sweet ride for Porsche, which happens to be - by most accounts - the most profitable major car brand in recent years. Porsche is busy pilling untold billions into electrification. The GT car thing is awfully small fry in that context.
Not many people really interested in these cars have missed the fact that production numbers are up dramatically on the latest few generations of GT cars versus the old ones. Or that the allocation process in the UK is a circus. Or that there's been a pandemic.
In so far as there is some actual analysis, at very least it lacks nuance. Yes many people are sour about the GT allocation process. But it's been like that for years and punters have kept beating each other up for access. The reality in this kind of luxury good market is that people complain about the process, but they love it when they secure an allocation and perceive that as a boost or reflection of high status etc.
The perception of difficult access / scarcity is certainly a core factor driving demand in GT cars. And watches. And whatever. Dicking people about like this is actually part of what keeps the circus going. If it was easy to just order a car, half the people buying them would lose interest. You'd no longer need to be 'special' to get an allocation.
His views on brand dilution are probably 20 years out of date, too. Apple has sold 2.2 billion iPhones. Rightly or wrongly, it remains the premium smartphone brand. Ze German car brands have maintain significant branding advantages over mainstream car makers despite huge increases in volumes. BMW still beats Hyundai by miles for brand image. Lambo, as he points out, used to sell a few hundred cars, and observes that it now sells thousands as if this is a bad thing. The business used to barely exist (indeed it nearly stopped existing many times). Now it's a far bigger business that actually makes money. Has the Lambo 'brand' suffered? Kind of academic given what the brand used to be added up to a borderline non-viable business.
There's also something fundamentally contradictory about the entire premise of the video. He first laments that the market for GT cars is full of speculators driving up prices. Then he chastises Porsche saying that oversupply the market which will scare off the speculators and see values implode. If he's complaining about the first problem, surely the following issue is the perfect solution. Lots of cheap GT cars for people to actually drive not confuse with investment instruments.
Anyway, the GT car circus in the UK was never going to last forever. Eventually it was always going to go titsup.com, be that due to chronic oversupply, economic meltdown or regulatory pressure or some combination of those and other factors.
From a commercial perspective, I dare say it's been a pretty sweet ride for Porsche, which happens to be - by most accounts - the most profitable major car brand in recent years. Porsche is busy pilling untold billions into electrification. The GT car thing is awfully small fry in that context.
F6C said:
Suggest the problem with the video is the representation of some pretty widely known issues as some kind of value-added, peek-behind-the-curtains insight.
Not many people really interested in these cars have missed the fact that production numbers are up dramatically on the latest few generations of GT cars versus the old ones. Or that the allocation process in the UK is a circus. Or that there's been a pandemic.
In so far as there is some actual analysis, at very least it lacks nuance. Yes many people are sour about the GT allocation process. But it's been like that for years and punters have kept beating each other up for access. The reality in this kind of luxury good market is that people complain about the process, but they love it when they secure an allocation and perceive that as a boost or reflection of high status etc.
The perception of difficult access / scarcity is certainly a core factor driving demand in GT cars. And watches. And whatever. Dicking people about like this is actually part of what keeps the circus going. If it was easy to just order a car, half the people buying them would lose interest. You'd no longer need to be 'special' to get an allocation.
His views on brand dilution are probably 20 years out of date, too. Apple has sold 2.2 billion iPhones. Rightly or wrongly, it remains the premium smartphone brand. Ze German car brands have maintain significant branding advantages over mainstream car makers despite huge increases in volumes. BMW still beats Hyundai by miles for brand image. Lambo, as he points out, used to sell a few hundred cars, and observes that it now sells thousands as if this is a bad thing. The business used to barely exist (indeed it nearly stopped existing many times). Now it's a far bigger business that actually makes money. Has the Lambo 'brand' suffered? Kind of academic given what the brand used to be added up to a borderline non-viable business.
There's also something fundamentally contradictory about the entire premise of the video. He first laments that the market for GT cars is full of speculators driving up prices. Then he chastises Porsche saying that oversupply the market which will scare off the speculators and see values implode. If he's complaining about the first problem, surely the following issue is the perfect solution. Lots of cheap GT cars for people to actually drive not confuse with investment instruments.
Anyway, the GT car circus in the UK was never going to last forever. Eventually it was always going to go titsup.com, be that due to chronic oversupply, economic meltdown or regulatory pressure or some combination of those and other factors.
From a commercial perspective, I dare say it's been a pretty sweet ride for Porsche, which happens to be - by most accounts - the most profitable major car brand in recent years. Porsche is busy pilling untold billions into electrification. The GT car thing is awfully small fry in that context.
Good postNot many people really interested in these cars have missed the fact that production numbers are up dramatically on the latest few generations of GT cars versus the old ones. Or that the allocation process in the UK is a circus. Or that there's been a pandemic.
In so far as there is some actual analysis, at very least it lacks nuance. Yes many people are sour about the GT allocation process. But it's been like that for years and punters have kept beating each other up for access. The reality in this kind of luxury good market is that people complain about the process, but they love it when they secure an allocation and perceive that as a boost or reflection of high status etc.
The perception of difficult access / scarcity is certainly a core factor driving demand in GT cars. And watches. And whatever. Dicking people about like this is actually part of what keeps the circus going. If it was easy to just order a car, half the people buying them would lose interest. You'd no longer need to be 'special' to get an allocation.
His views on brand dilution are probably 20 years out of date, too. Apple has sold 2.2 billion iPhones. Rightly or wrongly, it remains the premium smartphone brand. Ze German car brands have maintain significant branding advantages over mainstream car makers despite huge increases in volumes. BMW still beats Hyundai by miles for brand image. Lambo, as he points out, used to sell a few hundred cars, and observes that it now sells thousands as if this is a bad thing. The business used to barely exist (indeed it nearly stopped existing many times). Now it's a far bigger business that actually makes money. Has the Lambo 'brand' suffered? Kind of academic given what the brand used to be added up to a borderline non-viable business.
There's also something fundamentally contradictory about the entire premise of the video. He first laments that the market for GT cars is full of speculators driving up prices. Then he chastises Porsche saying that oversupply the market which will scare off the speculators and see values implode. If he's complaining about the first problem, surely the following issue is the perfect solution. Lots of cheap GT cars for people to actually drive not confuse with investment instruments.
Anyway, the GT car circus in the UK was never going to last forever. Eventually it was always going to go titsup.com, be that due to chronic oversupply, economic meltdown or regulatory pressure or some combination of those and other factors.
From a commercial perspective, I dare say it's been a pretty sweet ride for Porsche, which happens to be - by most accounts - the most profitable major car brand in recent years. Porsche is busy pilling untold billions into electrification. The GT car thing is awfully small fry in that context.
RDMcG said:
Steve Rance said:
I think that he has a point. Long gone are the days when Porsche allocate their GT cars primarily to people who will appreciate and drive them as intended. Dr Ferry must be turning in his grave at how cynical his beloved brand has become. Fair play to the J chap for having an opinion. It’s not illegal to have one - despite what the liberal elite may have you believe.
Isn’t it easy to sit behind a keyboard and a pair of curtains and be rude and disingenuous.
I also think he has a point.Isn’t it easy to sit behind a keyboard and a pair of curtains and be rude and disingenuous.
No idea who he is ,nor do I care, but I do worry about the whole concept of cars as investments rather that as experiences . It seems sad to me that all that design and engineering is destined to be a trophy to be admired rather than something that will have a few paint chips ( or worse as I have experienced). If they simply supplied the market and avoided all of this "limited "stuff, there would be lots of cars, they would depreciate normally and then the cheaper cars would find their way to enthusiasts hopefully.
A former insider's view, Ed Lovett discussing GT allocations and Porsche customer service with a guy who cried about not getting a phone call from his OPC to ask "You OK hun?"...
https://youtu.be/CbA_V2s2gyA
https://youtu.be/CbA_V2s2gyA
WojaWabbit said:
A former insider's view, Ed Lovett discussing GT allocations and Porsche customer service with a guy who cried about not getting a phone call from his OPC to ask "You OK hun?"...
https://youtu.be/CbA_V2s2gyA
You pick on us ALL with comments like this, how many times have you had a deposit returned to you instead of the product, it's not nice,https://youtu.be/CbA_V2s2gyA
How many phone calls, emails have you been promised that never arrived.
How much money have you thrown at dealerships over the years,
I can go on and on but don't want to bore you.
When you've worked hard all your life, you simply want to be treated fairly, "treat others they say, as you would want to be treated"
Most OPC don't have a understanding of this
LordOfTheManor said:
A word to sum up the OPC service you receive when asking for a GT car is
"condescending" meaning - having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority over the customer who's paying for the car
Again, that is not my experience. Your experience does seem to be very ‘unique’."condescending" meaning - having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority over the customer who's paying for the car
Think possibly some unrealistic expectations implied.
We're talking about luxury vendors / markets / goods / whatever and their clientele. And in this case, er, car dealers. You know...car dealers! Without wishing to be unkind, being in any way surprised that a car dealer falls short of some or other high moral standard is surely unrealistic if not naive.
Broadly, what we're talking about is the pursuit of a luxury good of zero consequence. A certain culture surrounding the market for and acquisition of such goods is implied. Image. Status. Brand management. Manufacturing demand. Artificial scarcity. A lot of the negatives being discussed are essentially the inevitable flip sides / consequences of the market for a luxury good where demand is driven by a perception of status / image / scarcity and so on.
If GT cars were easy to buy and depreciated after purchase, as they used to, hardly anyone would one...as they used to! Think it's likely fair to say the number of enthusiasts who want a GT car as something primarily to drive rather than as a pseudo investment or status trophy hasn't changed much. In the early days of GT cars, they had a hard time selling a far fewer number of cars to a customer base that was roughly of that ilk.
Now they build far more and have queues round the block of people competing to buy a car they've never driven. I personally find it hard to believe there's suddenly a huge glut of driving enthusiasts competing for these cars.
So, it's a little hard to be entirely sympathetic to any perceived grievances in that context. If you're getting involved in the race to put deposits down on a car you've never driven (inherent with any new GT car of late which is always sold out before launch), you're already part of the 'problem'. There's a huge wealth of choice out there if you can afford a new GT car, including paying overs - and from what I can tell, most people are paying extra one way or another, whether it's overs or by virtue of buying a load of cooking models they wouldn't otherwise have touched.
Much more edifying to grab something else, a 997 GT car, give a V10 R8 a go, grab a manual 991 Touring, something older maybe, whatever, get on with enjoying it and let the circus do its thing, no? So many great cars to try without having to get involved in the status rush. Think it would be liberating for those caught up in the circus and feeling hard done by to let go and leave the bun fight to those more committed to the acquisition of a luxury good. If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
We're talking about luxury vendors / markets / goods / whatever and their clientele. And in this case, er, car dealers. You know...car dealers! Without wishing to be unkind, being in any way surprised that a car dealer falls short of some or other high moral standard is surely unrealistic if not naive.
Broadly, what we're talking about is the pursuit of a luxury good of zero consequence. A certain culture surrounding the market for and acquisition of such goods is implied. Image. Status. Brand management. Manufacturing demand. Artificial scarcity. A lot of the negatives being discussed are essentially the inevitable flip sides / consequences of the market for a luxury good where demand is driven by a perception of status / image / scarcity and so on.
If GT cars were easy to buy and depreciated after purchase, as they used to, hardly anyone would one...as they used to! Think it's likely fair to say the number of enthusiasts who want a GT car as something primarily to drive rather than as a pseudo investment or status trophy hasn't changed much. In the early days of GT cars, they had a hard time selling a far fewer number of cars to a customer base that was roughly of that ilk.
Now they build far more and have queues round the block of people competing to buy a car they've never driven. I personally find it hard to believe there's suddenly a huge glut of driving enthusiasts competing for these cars.
So, it's a little hard to be entirely sympathetic to any perceived grievances in that context. If you're getting involved in the race to put deposits down on a car you've never driven (inherent with any new GT car of late which is always sold out before launch), you're already part of the 'problem'. There's a huge wealth of choice out there if you can afford a new GT car, including paying overs - and from what I can tell, most people are paying extra one way or another, whether it's overs or by virtue of buying a load of cooking models they wouldn't otherwise have touched.
Much more edifying to grab something else, a 997 GT car, give a V10 R8 a go, grab a manual 991 Touring, something older maybe, whatever, get on with enjoying it and let the circus do its thing, no? So many great cars to try without having to get involved in the status rush. Think it would be liberating for those caught up in the circus and feeling hard done by to let go and leave the bun fight to those more committed to the acquisition of a luxury good. If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
F6C said:
Think possibly some unrealistic expectations implied.
We're talking about luxury vendors / markets / goods / whatever and their clientele. And in this case, er, car dealers. You know...car dealers! Without wishing to be unkind, being in any way surprised that a car dealer falls short of some or other high moral standard is surely unrealistic if not naive.
Broadly, what we're talking about is the pursuit of a luxury good of zero consequence. A certain culture surrounding the market for and acquisition of such goods is implied. Image. Status. Brand management. Manufacturing demand. Artificial scarcity. A lot of the negatives being discussed are essentially the inevitable flip sides / consequences of the market for a luxury good where demand is driven by a perception of status / image / scarcity and so on.
If GT cars were easy to buy and depreciated after purchase, as they used to, hardly anyone would one...as they used to! Think it's likely fair to say the number of enthusiasts who want a GT car as something primarily to drive rather than as a pseudo investment or status trophy hasn't changed much. In the early days of GT cars, they had a hard time selling a far fewer number of cars to a customer base that was roughly of that ilk.
Now they build far more and have queues round the block of people competing to buy a car they've never driven. I personally find it hard to believe there's suddenly a huge glut of driving enthusiasts competing for these cars.
So, it's a little hard to be entirely sympathetic to any perceived grievances in that context. If you're getting involved in the race to put deposits down on a car you've never driven (inherent with any new GT car of late which is always sold out before launch), you're already part of the 'problem'. There's a huge wealth of choice out there if you can afford a new GT car, including paying overs - and from what I can tell, most people are paying extra one way or another, whether it's overs or by virtue of buying a load of cooking models they wouldn't otherwise have touched.
Much more edifying to grab something else, a 997 GT car, give a V10 R8 a go, grab a manual 991 Touring, something older maybe, whatever, get on with enjoying it and let the circus do its thing, no? So many great cars to try without having to get involved in the status rush. Think it would be liberating for those caught up in the circus and feeling hard done by to let go and leave the bun fight to those more committed to the acquisition of a luxury good. If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
Very good post. We're talking about luxury vendors / markets / goods / whatever and their clientele. And in this case, er, car dealers. You know...car dealers! Without wishing to be unkind, being in any way surprised that a car dealer falls short of some or other high moral standard is surely unrealistic if not naive.
Broadly, what we're talking about is the pursuit of a luxury good of zero consequence. A certain culture surrounding the market for and acquisition of such goods is implied. Image. Status. Brand management. Manufacturing demand. Artificial scarcity. A lot of the negatives being discussed are essentially the inevitable flip sides / consequences of the market for a luxury good where demand is driven by a perception of status / image / scarcity and so on.
If GT cars were easy to buy and depreciated after purchase, as they used to, hardly anyone would one...as they used to! Think it's likely fair to say the number of enthusiasts who want a GT car as something primarily to drive rather than as a pseudo investment or status trophy hasn't changed much. In the early days of GT cars, they had a hard time selling a far fewer number of cars to a customer base that was roughly of that ilk.
Now they build far more and have queues round the block of people competing to buy a car they've never driven. I personally find it hard to believe there's suddenly a huge glut of driving enthusiasts competing for these cars.
So, it's a little hard to be entirely sympathetic to any perceived grievances in that context. If you're getting involved in the race to put deposits down on a car you've never driven (inherent with any new GT car of late which is always sold out before launch), you're already part of the 'problem'. There's a huge wealth of choice out there if you can afford a new GT car, including paying overs - and from what I can tell, most people are paying extra one way or another, whether it's overs or by virtue of buying a load of cooking models they wouldn't otherwise have touched.
Much more edifying to grab something else, a 997 GT car, give a V10 R8 a go, grab a manual 991 Touring, something older maybe, whatever, get on with enjoying it and let the circus do its thing, no? So many great cars to try without having to get involved in the status rush. Think it would be liberating for those caught up in the circus and feeling hard done by to let go and leave the bun fight to those more committed to the acquisition of a luxury good. If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
992_GT3 said:
Again, that is not my experience. Your experience does seem to be very ‘unique’.
You made sure that you got 992_gt3 quick enough 
You might be a person who always gets what he wants, and that's fab for you too But please
stalk someone else has my other half is starting to feel a little jealous of the time you spend talking to me 
LordOfTheManor said:
A word to sum up the OPC service you receive when asking for a GT car is
"condescending" meaning - having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority over the customer who's paying for the car
Whilst I'm certainly not suggesting you're one of them, don't forget that there will be a number of customers who probably treat the OPC staff appallingly due to their apparent wealth/status/position. I've seen this personally whilst sat in my local OPC waiting for my car and the if the person involved had talked to me like that I wouldn't have hesitated to tell them to F**k O*f. As it happens the sales guy involved was very restrained and conciliatory to his credit. "condescending" meaning - having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority over the customer who's paying for the car
On that basis I can imaging the sales guys deriving a certain degree of pleasure by saying "No" to some customers especially if it's the Sales Manager or DP that have told them to say it.
Sometimes you also have to remember that no matter how much you've spent or what you think your perceived status is with a given supplier there will always be someone else that's spent more or knows people higher up the chain better than you do and when there's a limited supply of cars you won't always get what you want because they'll always be in front of you. That's life and you either deal with it or you can like others moan on YouTube about how unfair the world is.
Edited by Voodoo Blue on Sunday 14th February 16:55
F6C said:
If it really has to be a car you've never driven, well, seems to me that by definition it can't really be about the drive, can it? It's about something else, something probably rather less healthy.
I think that depends. In my case had had long experience with BMW M cars, and when I was at the NS one time the chance to drive a 996 GT3. It was impressive, and made me want to get a Porsche for track and road . So I went to the dealer ( no background) and got a 997.1 RS for the second year of production, never having driven it, and took that to a bunch of tracks. Still have it 13 years later. In the early 997 day there was little demand for the cars and I got it at a discount.All reviews of the 7.2RS suggested it was better, so I bought one ( no drive possible) and tracked it immediately two days after factory pickup.. I decided to keep the earlier car for reasons of sentiment; probably should have kept the 7.2 but the 991RS looked good to me; I had driven plenty of 991s , so I got it. No premiums or the like. I will keep the ones I have and get the 992RS additionally. I am always curious about how this stuff develops.
They are all a bit different and quite a lot of fun, and generally tough as old boots in my experience.
Everything gets driven and tracked, so I would disagree that buying a car you have never driven is not about the drive.
It is just not practical to test drive one if it is not available, and I want to spec a car exactly to what I want; not possible if I went aftermarket or bought something for a silly premium in the temporary period after they first came out. A lot of the time they go often back close to original dealer price over time , especially was they are not so rare these days.
We all have different reasons to buy or to make the very rational decision buy something else, For instance, I tried the manual R8 when it came out first and did not like it - others rate it highly. Have driven many of the modern M cars and they do not have for me the same connection as a E24 or E39 M5, yet have friends who love them.
For me its just that I like these cars, nothing more ,not for status, just for the drive. I don't think they are at all worth a premium, and if I did not get one at dealer price I would not buy one Others whom I respect want a much purer track car and do not particularly fancy this level of road/track spec. It is definitely nothing like a proper RSR or the like. I would never claim that the GT cars are the ultimate in anything and the big differentiator as always is the driver. I am not likely to drive at the limit of performance in any of them but more a respectable but unspectacular track day and lots of road travel in Germany and so on as I do every year.
With respect, my point wasn't that buying a car 'blind' is inherently a bad thing. My point is that if you're getting tied up in the allocations circus, buying umpteen cooking Porsches and micromanaging your relationship with an OPC DP, all for a car you have never driven, it's all getting rather detached from the notion of driving cars.
There are a lot of very good cars out there that can be easily bought and it's pretty hard to argue that if what you're mainly interested in is the drive rather than having the latest thing for its own sake then it absolutely has to be a car that you have never driven. That's very different from being willing to take a bit of a punt through an informed decision about a car you think you'd like to drive and buying it without having done so.
There are a lot of very good cars out there that can be easily bought and it's pretty hard to argue that if what you're mainly interested in is the drive rather than having the latest thing for its own sake then it absolutely has to be a car that you have never driven. That's very different from being willing to take a bit of a punt through an informed decision about a car you think you'd like to drive and buying it without having done so.
My GT money is going on a Maserati MC20 Spyder 
because the process is an easy one
1 call the dealership (and they are nice to you)
2 give them your money
3 collect the car when ready
Nothing like Porsche sell their GT cars and really who needs all the crap that surrounds these cars, as most of them either sit in garages or pop to Tesco's
when its not raining
because the process is an easy one 1 call the dealership (and they are nice to you)
2 give them your money
3 collect the car when ready
Nothing like Porsche sell their GT cars and really who needs all the crap that surrounds these cars, as most of them either sit in garages or pop to Tesco's
when its not raining
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