GT3 prices going up

GT3 prices going up

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Discussion

Throttlebody

2,495 posts

64 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
hooneybadger said:
Makes this one at Ashgoods seem great value

Well good. + Front lift.

Youforreal.

847 posts

14 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
Which puts more pressure on 991.1 GT3's ... although the Porsche extended warranty can be maintained to 15 years ...
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.

I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.




Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05

FL Racing

77 posts

22 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
hooneybadger said:
Makes this one at Ashgoods seem great value

Low spec car, none CS plastic interior, no pccb’s
Priced about right

Andyoz

2,917 posts

64 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.

I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.

Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.

FrancisA

146 posts

19 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.

I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.

Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
Would you buy one though? Also what if Hartech have a reasonable engine build for the 991.1 engine. The only engine I am aware of that should have no concerns in the G6 engine. The last build of that generation

ChrisW.

7,258 posts

265 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
FrancisA said:
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.

I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.

Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
Would you buy one though? Also what if Hartech have a reasonable engine build for the 991.1 engine. The only engine I am aware of that should have no concerns in the G6 engine. The last build of that generation
If Hartech are to incorporate the 991.2 engine improvements they will need to find a way of including solid valve lifters plus all the other stuff that Porsche did ... or go for the spec of the 991.1GT3RS and limit the maximum revs slightly ? Maybe even slightly earlier oil changes ?

But might this be possible ? Maybe worth an ask ??

Brighton Speed

345 posts

204 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
FrancisA said:
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.

I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.

Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
Would you buy one though? Also what if Hartech have a reasonable engine build for the 991.1 engine. The only engine I am aware of that should have no concerns in the G6 engine. The last build of that generation
If Hartech are to incorporate the 991.2 engine improvements they will need to find a way of including solid valve lifters plus all the other stuff that Porsche did ... or go for the spec of the 991.1GT3RS and limit the maximum revs slightly ? Maybe even slightly earlier oil changes ?

But might this be possible ? Maybe worth an ask ??
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.

Discombobulate

5,319 posts

196 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?

av185

20,106 posts

137 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Discombobulate said:
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?
332 UK cars.

Discombobulate

5,319 posts

196 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
av185 said:
332 UK cars.
So probably not high on Hartech's list of priorities ....

ATM

19,254 posts

229 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Discombobulate said:
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?
No chance

There are 1000's or 10000's of vanilla 9x6 and 9x7 cars. That's a big market.

ChrisW.

7,258 posts

265 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
I tend to agree. Most 996 / 997.1 owners are going for power/capacity upgrades for their £15k ish ... GT3 owners stay the same (or slightly less) for £25k ?

How many secondhand 991.2 engines and ECU's could be found ? And would that be an option ?

How many 991.1 GT3's are actually going to need engine replacements when regular oil changes and extra care when cool may be the answer ?

But at what price level is the risk / fear worth taking a chance ??

Could a tuned / stroked 981 engine be made to work ? DeMan ?

Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 17th January 22:28

Digga

42,180 posts

293 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.

On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.

With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.

Andyoz

2,917 posts

64 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
Digga said:
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.

On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.

With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Yes, I just think it's a massive jump for say Hartech to go from fixing 'consumer' Porsche engines to Motorsport ones. Is a rock solid fix for the 991.1 GT3 engine even possible....Porsche themselves didn't seem to get there totally (until the .2) and they have the corporate power to back it all while they tried.

Would Hartech be prepared to expose themselves to that liability.

av185

20,106 posts

137 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
Be interesting knowing if my October 2014 991.1 GT3 is still on the original engine. It benefited from a revised factory engine on the production line being stored for a few months until the new ones arrived.

I ran it in religiously no short runs quality fuel etc and sold it in late 2015.

DE64 MJX.

Porsche issued an additional 12 months warranty in addition to the standard 2 year warranty at that time as part of the overall compensation package owners received comprising a quality new unlimited mileage loaner (Cayman GTS PDK for c6 months) and £1500 a month for those with delivered cars.


kith

587 posts

255 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
FL Racing said:
hooneybadger said:
Makes this one at Ashgoods seem great value

Low spec car, none CS plastic interior, no pccb’s
Priced about right
Also, due a Major

ATM

19,254 posts

229 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
Andyoz said:
Digga said:
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.

On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.

With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Yes, I just think it's a massive jump for say Hartech to go from fixing 'consumer' Porsche engines to Motorsport ones. Is a rock solid fix for the 991.1 GT3 engine even possible....Porsche themselves didn't seem to get there totally (until the .2) and they have the corporate power to back it all while they tried.

Would Hartech be prepared to expose themselves to that liability.
I watched a Matt Armstrong rebuilding a new gt3rs and he purchased a replacement block from Porsche for 8 grand. That's just the bare block casing or is it in 2 pieces so 1 for each bank.

I do wonder if Hartech need to branch out or look to alternatives before the 996 and 997 market gets thinner. I've read some pieces about them working on higher capacity 991.1 engine options but that's about it. Once Porsche switched to turbo it's a very different ballgame of generally just adding boost.

Digga

42,180 posts

293 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
ATM said:
I watched a Matt Armstrong rebuilding a new gt3rs and he purchased a replacement block from Porsche for 8 grand. That's just the bare block casing or is it in 2 pieces so 1 for each bank.
Yes, that’s right, so £16k for a pair of blocks; 3 cylinders in each. No liners or pistons included in that.

TDT

5,699 posts

129 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
The MITIGATION for 991.1 GT3 engines is routine inspections of finger followers and camshaft’s, as IRRESPECTIVE of revision, the wear will eventually show up. It’s just what it is.

The reason for it is down to the architecture, the mechanics of the valve-train and the oiling system which was properly revised in the .2.

It’s not necessarily a curse… you just have to keep ahead of it.
Even the CGT has this type issue, but thats because it’s a race car engine… routine inspections required at set intervals.

I personally don't think any engine builder in their right mind would take on 991.1 GT3 engine rebuilds unless they make customers sign waivers… you’d get no guarantee, and no warranty. Builders wont want to be liable and customers want protection.

Therefore it wont happen, If it dies it dies.

The FIX… some shops worldwide are looking at .2 GT3 engine swaps. This would work out more effective than .1 engine rebuild.

ChrisW.

7,258 posts

265 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
And the American ECU wouldn't work so they put in a German ECU and it did ... the pain could be endless ??