New (to me) 997.2 C2S with PDK - some thoughts/questions

New (to me) 997.2 C2S with PDK - some thoughts/questions

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veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
After handing back my Golf R in May, there was an itch that had to be scratched. Looked around at many examples and finally went for this 2009 C2S, had a good spec including PSE, X-Pipe, Sports Chrono Plus, PDK, PCCB

First ever Porsche after years in BMWs (E30 M3, E36 M3, 335i etc) and some random others including an S1 Elise, plus a long history of trackday/fast road bikes.

After driving the car for the last two weeks, its clear that it has great performance but some niggles that maybe the PH Porsche folks can help with?

PDK -

PDK seems awfully slow to react at the paddle and then to actually shift, even in Sports Plus mode. I'm thinking I've been spoilt by the Golf R DSG. This being a much newer car and the 997 now being 12 years old, and technology moving on fast for dual clutch boxes. At full throttle accelerations it gets quicker, but mid rev-range appears slow to react and shift.

Any driving advice/tips by PDK owners greatly appreciated. For example, just leave it in a certain mode, put it in D, use paddles or not?
Are there any PDK software upgrades or flashes available to speed things up a wee bit?

Handling -

PASM Sport is a no-go on our roads, too harsh. But PASM Normal seems too soft with a floaty feel from the front of the car. Its had a recent Geo in May and brand new N-Rated Pirellis running 34F/39R lb/ft pressures. Motorway speeds feel light and flighty at front, is the best I can explain. This is with a full tank of fuel.

Also when 'pushing on' the car feels underdamped with a small roll effect from front to back (nothing scary). I'm wondering at 45k miles and 12 yrs age the PASM dampers may be shot? Recent service at OPC in May also, surely they would have picked up bad dampers as an advisory? Reading on forums, it could be just a '911 thing'. As a newb, this could be me needing recalibration to the engine hanging out the back.

Many thanks for any insights / experiences!!


veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
PDK - leave it in manual and change via the paddles, I don't think there's a software upgrade although others may know for sure.

PASM/handling - consider buying a DSC Sport controller.

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
Yep, but you want the 997.2 version and don't need the separate accelerometer:

https://www.design911shop.com/DSC-Sport-V1-Plug-N-...

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
Thanks Twinfan

Have you fitted one in the past? Is it a big improvement over standard?

Twinfan

10,125 posts

103 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
I've not fitted one, sorry. I looked into them for my 981 Cayman but never bought one. From reading around they have the greatest difference on 987 series cars. Lots of info on the Rennlist forum from memory.

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
The DSC controller is a 5 minute fit-and-forget gadget which transformed my 997.1T. Probably the best £1K I’ve ever spent on a car or bike.

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
Duly added to Santa list. Thanks for the recommendation

Mutton

375 posts

221 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
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I have a DSC box on my 997.2 S and it is well worth the investment, especially if you have had a good geo done as well. Doing back to back tests with the standard PASM box makes the dampers feel like they have concrete in them when the original unit is fitted. Much less dive and roll as well, especially on track. You can also customise the settings to your preference if you're brave enough, which I have done as I found the sport setting slightly too soft for track work (but is a good compromise for road).
I would also recommend getting some PS4S tyres at some point as they will be leagues better than your Pirelli's in terms of grip, traction and also ride comfort.

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
H&R springs and fast road geo booked with Copse Auto on July 20.

Will look at DSC box next

mr pg

1,947 posts

204 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
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Gearchanges in sports/sports plus should be very quick, even versus a newer DSG. I would consider getting the oil changed as it should be at a particular age (maybe it hasn't been done).
For pootling around town normal drive is fine, although it does change up annoyingly quickly and throttle response is on the slow side. Manual use can overcome this.
For proper driving I used (in a 981, so gen 2 PDK) sports/sports plus in manual.

churchie2856

448 posts

189 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
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I had a 997.2 PDK (non-S, non-Sports Chrono) at the same time as a Golf R DSG. I too found the gear changes in manual not as quick to execute on the 997 than on the Golf. I did consider getting the Sport Button retro fitted (basically Sport Chrono less the dash pod clock), but never got round to it. I also considered the COBB PDK tune, but that was for S models only. In the end I sold it.

The PDK on my 718 2.0 (non-S, no Sports Chrono) was a massive improvement on the 997.2. Qicker shifting than the Golf R too. I used it in Sports mode all the time and it was really rather excellent in manual mode. In fact, even in auto it was very good too.

I think PDK gen 1 was OK (especially for its time), but PDK gen 2 (981, 982, 991) moved the game on.

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Thursday 8th July 2021
quotequote all
PDK oil refresh may be on the cards then..

I did consider a Cayman GTS PDK when shopping, but had the 911 itch

kilarney

483 posts

222 months

Friday 9th July 2021
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I thought the PASM on my 997GTS wasnt that great. Your right that the issue is damping and the patter you feel from the front end that corrupts the steering feel.
In short its either underdamped or over damped depending on which position is selected but fundamentally there is only one correct damping rate for a given spring rate so its a flawed concept.
I fitted the DSC controller and yes its better resolved but it was only set up for one setting and imo not as well as it could be either.
I ended up reprogramming it myself and got things pretty good - this was better than the DSC as supplied and probably what your thinking it should be like.
I played with roll stiffness and speed compensated squat and dive. Felt like a race set up in end. The adjustments possible are incredible
However a big design issue with the pasm dampers is cavitation (due to two small internal orifice ) once things warm up so I ended up setting up the DSC to compensate for this ie 3 settings increasingly stiffer to allow for dampers heating up but with exactly the same correct damping. This would cover ambient range 5c - 27c in three increments.

Once I got the passive 981 spyder I realised how compromised the pasm set up is. To a degree my 991.2 GTS suffers pasm trait as well but nothing like the 997 did so I will leave it alone.

If I did it again I would not go dsc but Ohlins passive on the 997 with road biased spring rates and set up.
DSC is OK for the price especially if you have a go yourself and also easy to reverse but has limitations due to the damper. Also I would think at your miles they are not at there best.




Edited by kilarney on Friday 9th July 09:17

HokumPokum

2,049 posts

204 months

Friday 9th July 2021
quotequote all
I would agree. Depending on usage, dampers may be past their best at that age. My tracked cars get a damper refresh every 4 to 5 years. A quality non-pasm jobbie will be better than original imo. If you want to stick with oem than replacing all 4 dampers would be where i would start

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Friday 9th July 2021
quotequote all
I’m fast thinking that swapping out for passive coilovers may be the long term solution.

Just went for my first spirited drive without passengers and switched everything to sport plus with PASM in sport and pushed hard like I would in the Golf, in my opinion it works better the harder you push…

That includes the PDK shifts.

So short term solution seems to be drive it harder

Thanks for all the inputs guys!! Have a great weekend

Edited by veetwin on Friday 9th July 20:26

veetwin

Original Poster:

1,564 posts

256 months

Friday 9th July 2021
quotequote all
Another question on PDK

Does it learn new shifting behaviour? This was a London car before me, from what I can tell from prior two owners.

So an assumption would be it may have been driven mostly at congestion speeds and this could have affected the PDK?

Searching on forums, there looks to be a PDK reset procedure. I’m wondering if a good few hoons are in order to recalibrate the car?