Discussion
kilarney said:
Im another that went 991.2 GTS rather than 992S and because of its high PTS spec paid more for it.
The main reasons were
As a long time 911 owner the loss of the analogue look dials in favour of the nintendo dash wasnt for me at least for now.
Second a friend who owns many 911,s dumped his two 992 fairly quickly in favour of adding another 991 to the fleet citing that the 992 felt sanitised by comparison - too good ?
Finally the early 992 still seemed to be suffering teething problems so I didnt want to end up with a lemon.
Now I still have no regrets and actually prefer the 991 look and size. The turbo unit is good for a daily and whilst I still fondly remember the 997GTS I had the turbo is up there in a different way. I have RWS plus PDCC and the jury is out as to whether a non RWS is more like a traditional 911 drive as the RWS makes it more like a mid engine in feel. Overall I prefer the chassis balance of the 997GTS if not its older PASM.
Hi The main reasons were
As a long time 911 owner the loss of the analogue look dials in favour of the nintendo dash wasnt for me at least for now.
Second a friend who owns many 911,s dumped his two 992 fairly quickly in favour of adding another 991 to the fleet citing that the 992 felt sanitised by comparison - too good ?
Finally the early 992 still seemed to be suffering teething problems so I didnt want to end up with a lemon.
Now I still have no regrets and actually prefer the 991 look and size. The turbo unit is good for a daily and whilst I still fondly remember the 997GTS I had the turbo is up there in a different way. I have RWS plus PDCC and the jury is out as to whether a non RWS is more like a traditional 911 drive as the RWS makes it more like a mid engine in feel. Overall I prefer the chassis balance of the 997GTS if not its older PASM.
Am exactly in the same boat, looking at a 992 S and currently have a 2018 991.2 C4S (which I love)
so have found (deposit on it) a low mileage 991.2 4 GTS - possibly the last one imported to the UK
Many of the comments on here regarding this - seem to substantiate my logic !!
Just bought a 2018 991.2 GTS....for the price I paid, there was a good £10-15k gap to a 992 C2S and £60k to a 992 GTS!
Fantastic car all round. Plenty quick in any gear, telepathic steering and handling compared to the BMWs I have driven for 18 years. Blisteringly quick yet still ridiculous on fuel - 36MPG on a long run. A friend with a C63S makes mine look like a diesel. The interior may be dated compared to a 992, but its leagues ahead of a 997 and perfectly fine for me.
Zero regrets.
Fantastic car all round. Plenty quick in any gear, telepathic steering and handling compared to the BMWs I have driven for 18 years. Blisteringly quick yet still ridiculous on fuel - 36MPG on a long run. A friend with a C63S makes mine look like a diesel. The interior may be dated compared to a 992, but its leagues ahead of a 997 and perfectly fine for me.
Zero regrets.
Edited by MD707 on Monday 6th June 13:59
I’m in a 981 GT4 at the moment and will almost certainly get a 991.2 GTS next. I drove one a few years ago and was initially disappointed with the lack of noise (I was in a decatted v12 Vantage at the time so no wonder…) but what struck me was the effortless performance and the ride and handling. I’d like to compare the GT4 with it now though, as I’d imagine it’s sharper than the 911. Powertrain wise the 911 would kill the GT4. I’m having to sit tight to see if 911 GTS prices drop toward the GT4 before jumping over. GT4 seems strong but I sense the 911 will stay up there too.
I also drove the 992S - hugely capable but left me a little cold. Felt enormous too! I’d certainly prefer the 991.2.
I also drove the 992S - hugely capable but left me a little cold. Felt enormous too! I’d certainly prefer the 991.2.
Just bought my third (!) 991.2 GTS and it's been a bit of a story getting here.
First one was brand new in 2017, Carmine Red spec'd to the hills (was something like £130k spec back then, PCCB's, PDDC, Burmester, extended leather on all the plastic bits...all the big ticket items). Did 10k miles in it in 6 months and swapped it for an R8.
A year later having gone through the R8 (something like the 5th R8 I'd had by then), a DB11 boat that lasted four weeks (what was I thinking?!), then a 991.2 Turbo S, I bought by second 991.2 GTS, a used one in Miami Blue that was a match for my first one in terms of spec. It felt SO good being back in the GTS after the Turbo S; marginally slower for sure, but so much better to drive.
After a few thousand miles in that I bought my first McLaren, a 570S. Which, despite the reputation was superb...genuinely no issues. Which is not what I can say with the FIVE 720S's that followed, all of which I rejected either immediately or eventually. Perhaps they work for occasional use and people do claim to have no issues with them but not me and not for a daily driver. In the last year or so I've tried a 488 (nice enough car, but didn't especially enjoy 'driving' it) and a Huracan which, fitted with the OEM race exhaust, was by far my favourite car of all which I didn't want to get rid of.
However, strong market conditions and the need for four seats to transport growing twin toddlers meant I was on the hunt for a four seater and frankly, only a 911 was going to cut the mustard. I can't get a 992 GTS because the lead times are too long and in any case, I can't spec one the way I want as Porsche have removed many of the options I want....and I'm not paying a premium for one now. I might yet order one for delivery sometime before I die in the hope that options will come back on line next year.
Also, much as I tried to like and very nearly bought a 992S, it just didn't give me that zing driving it - it felt more like a GT car, it was pretty quiet and, even with -10mm PASM, it was softer than I expected.
So, I've bought another 991.2 GTS - I genuinely think these drive better than a 992S and I prefer the more button heavy interior over the (admittedly more modern looking) 992 interior. Whilst its a very decent spec with one of my favourite options (PDCC), it's lacking PCCB's which is another of my favourite options so I am considering buying a used set of brakes to retrofit - that would make it complete for me. Finding a C4GTS (I just prefer the 4wd version) with PDDC and PCCB's has proven almost impossible of late but, for the relatively good price I paid for this low mileage late model car, I can retrofit a set of PCCB's and still be no more expensive than some lesser-spec cars on the market.
There is one thing holding me back. Because my car is a 2019MY, it sounds very muted...somewhat ironic when one of the reasons I went 991 over 992 was for the better noise. I didn't think / realise that any 991's had OPF's fitted and it was only about a week into ownership I was thinking 'this is a bit quiet'....and rolled my eyes when I popped my head under the rear bumper to see those huge OPF cans on either side FFS. Seems regulation got to the last few months of 991 production and I suspect Porsche did little engineering to mitigate the effects of the OPF's.
I'm now contemplating whether I need to knock this one on the head and just buy an older car. That would be a shame because in every other respect, this is a very nice and tight car - I would prefer to keep it. So, will changing the back box rectify the muted nature of the sound?
I've already explored the Akrapovic option which is a no go because they don't fit OPF cars. There are other options (JCR and Sharkwerks) which do fit but I'd like to get a sense on whether either option will negate the effects of the OPF before throwing a few grand at an exhaust (the JCR looks a winner, but it's pricey and I don't want to spend thousands and end up with a still muted car, or one that resonates / drones). My expectations are modest because just achieving a sound / volume thats close to a pre-OPF sound would be satisfactory....whether that can be achieved with just an aftermarket backbox with the OPF's retained is the unknown to me.
A few pics of my previous versions...
And the offensive component on the current one....
First one was brand new in 2017, Carmine Red spec'd to the hills (was something like £130k spec back then, PCCB's, PDDC, Burmester, extended leather on all the plastic bits...all the big ticket items). Did 10k miles in it in 6 months and swapped it for an R8.
A year later having gone through the R8 (something like the 5th R8 I'd had by then), a DB11 boat that lasted four weeks (what was I thinking?!), then a 991.2 Turbo S, I bought by second 991.2 GTS, a used one in Miami Blue that was a match for my first one in terms of spec. It felt SO good being back in the GTS after the Turbo S; marginally slower for sure, but so much better to drive.
After a few thousand miles in that I bought my first McLaren, a 570S. Which, despite the reputation was superb...genuinely no issues. Which is not what I can say with the FIVE 720S's that followed, all of which I rejected either immediately or eventually. Perhaps they work for occasional use and people do claim to have no issues with them but not me and not for a daily driver. In the last year or so I've tried a 488 (nice enough car, but didn't especially enjoy 'driving' it) and a Huracan which, fitted with the OEM race exhaust, was by far my favourite car of all which I didn't want to get rid of.
However, strong market conditions and the need for four seats to transport growing twin toddlers meant I was on the hunt for a four seater and frankly, only a 911 was going to cut the mustard. I can't get a 992 GTS because the lead times are too long and in any case, I can't spec one the way I want as Porsche have removed many of the options I want....and I'm not paying a premium for one now. I might yet order one for delivery sometime before I die in the hope that options will come back on line next year.
Also, much as I tried to like and very nearly bought a 992S, it just didn't give me that zing driving it - it felt more like a GT car, it was pretty quiet and, even with -10mm PASM, it was softer than I expected.
So, I've bought another 991.2 GTS - I genuinely think these drive better than a 992S and I prefer the more button heavy interior over the (admittedly more modern looking) 992 interior. Whilst its a very decent spec with one of my favourite options (PDCC), it's lacking PCCB's which is another of my favourite options so I am considering buying a used set of brakes to retrofit - that would make it complete for me. Finding a C4GTS (I just prefer the 4wd version) with PDDC and PCCB's has proven almost impossible of late but, for the relatively good price I paid for this low mileage late model car, I can retrofit a set of PCCB's and still be no more expensive than some lesser-spec cars on the market.
There is one thing holding me back. Because my car is a 2019MY, it sounds very muted...somewhat ironic when one of the reasons I went 991 over 992 was for the better noise. I didn't think / realise that any 991's had OPF's fitted and it was only about a week into ownership I was thinking 'this is a bit quiet'....and rolled my eyes when I popped my head under the rear bumper to see those huge OPF cans on either side FFS. Seems regulation got to the last few months of 991 production and I suspect Porsche did little engineering to mitigate the effects of the OPF's.
I'm now contemplating whether I need to knock this one on the head and just buy an older car. That would be a shame because in every other respect, this is a very nice and tight car - I would prefer to keep it. So, will changing the back box rectify the muted nature of the sound?
I've already explored the Akrapovic option which is a no go because they don't fit OPF cars. There are other options (JCR and Sharkwerks) which do fit but I'd like to get a sense on whether either option will negate the effects of the OPF before throwing a few grand at an exhaust (the JCR looks a winner, but it's pricey and I don't want to spend thousands and end up with a still muted car, or one that resonates / drones). My expectations are modest because just achieving a sound / volume thats close to a pre-OPF sound would be satisfactory....whether that can be achieved with just an aftermarket backbox with the OPF's retained is the unknown to me.
A few pics of my previous versions...
And the offensive component on the current one....
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 8th June 00:24
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 8th June 00:28
guyvert1 said:
Great write-up Palmball, although I imagine it can be frustating, just think about alll those lovely cars you got to try, you're doing what most just dream off.
Good luck finding your unicorn ...
That’s what it’s been all about for me, experiencing different options. It’s been a bonkers market the last 2-3 years which has facilitated that with a lot less cost than one would think, as long as care was taken on purchase price and channel (avoid paying big dealer margins where possible) and being mindful of the start and end mileage points. Good luck finding your unicorn ...
Priorities have evolved now with the need for something fun and with four seats and the good news, which is relevant to this thread, is that aside perhaps from sound, outright power and prestige, a 991 GTS compares very well in terms of driving qualities to most of the more exotic stuff. I’ve fully tested the model…it really is a law of diminishing returns from this point (obviously depending on one’s priorities…if the goal is to go very fast or have the flashiest looking product then my argument starts to wane but I don’t think you’d be in a 911 forum if those were top priorities).
I've owned both a 2017 991.2GTS Coupe in 2WD PDK format as well as a 2019 992S Coupe in the same format. I much preferred the 991 in all aspects as it sounded better and drove in a much more sporty manner. The 991 had bags of character and also looked infinitely better IMO.
The 7 speed PDK with the option to change gear manually using the gear stick was better than the silly shaver knob on the 992 which I hated. No wonder Porsche haven't used the 992's 8 speed PDK on the 992GT3.
The 991.2GTS is one of my favourite Porsches as long as it have RAS which transforms the car all for the better.
The 7 speed PDK with the option to change gear manually using the gear stick was better than the silly shaver knob on the 992 which I hated. No wonder Porsche haven't used the 992's 8 speed PDK on the 992GT3.
The 991.2GTS is one of my favourite Porsches as long as it have RAS which transforms the car all for the better.
Ah yes, totally agree Taffy…the actual gear-lever with the ability to row your own gears through it is an almost absent feature in all modern cars and something I’m finding very satisfying having back. As cars have become more sanitised and digital, it’s these little features which make all the difference.
I actually wonder whether I can find satisfaction in anything newer than 2019 anymore. Take the Huracan I’ve just sold, it was a late model but pre Evo car. More dated it may be but I preferred the buttons inside to the newer (an much deride touchscreen) and in terms of sound quality, there is almost no comparison…the Evo sounds as muted to a pre Evo as my latest OPF equipped 991 GTS sounds to a pre OPF model.
I actually wonder whether I can find satisfaction in anything newer than 2019 anymore. Take the Huracan I’ve just sold, it was a late model but pre Evo car. More dated it may be but I preferred the buttons inside to the newer (an much deride touchscreen) and in terms of sound quality, there is almost no comparison…the Evo sounds as muted to a pre Evo as my latest OPF equipped 991 GTS sounds to a pre OPF model.
I looked at a 991.2 GTS a couple of years ago but the difference to a 992 S was small enough to make it an easy choice. I selected a lot of the then GTS options and interior bits which made for a far better daily driver with some of the feel of the old GTS. I’m now waiting on a new GTS to arrive as its a not a silly jump up again in price from the S with used prices still very strong due to the silly wait times.
Another person in the same situation... I ended up buying a Graphite Blue 6k miles GTS PDK from OPC West London.
Had the options i wanted ie glass roof. Lift and a few other things.
I was dead set on a 991.2 T manual but could not find one with 4 seats that had the spec i wanted.
All in all very happy with the GTS, PDK is much better than i thought.
The ride and handling really is wonderful. Quite smooth actually.
Only aspect i do not like so much is noise at motorway speed. Tire noise is too much.
Very sensitive to tire pressure. 2.0 front 2.2 bar rear for me.
Had the options i wanted ie glass roof. Lift and a few other things.
I was dead set on a 991.2 T manual but could not find one with 4 seats that had the spec i wanted.
All in all very happy with the GTS, PDK is much better than i thought.
The ride and handling really is wonderful. Quite smooth actually.
Only aspect i do not like so much is noise at motorway speed. Tire noise is too much.
Very sensitive to tire pressure. 2.0 front 2.2 bar rear for me.
MD707 said:
Agree, concrete sections of the M25 now much more noticeable! Raised voices required. But find it ok on proper tarmac....
I was reading on Rennlist that a few US guys have put some some sound deadening material in the doors, seatbelt mounts, in area near rear speakers, wheel arches and managed to get the tire noise down quite substantially.Seems reasonably straight forward and easily reversible.
Some argued that it is a game changer. Probably adds 5-10kg all in.
For now i bought a set of Sony Noise Cancelling headphones that i only use on long distance / poor surface runs.
Edited by erics on Thursday 9th June 16:30
erics said:
Another person in the same situation... I ended up buying a Graphite Blue 6k miles GTS PDK from OPC West London.
Had the options i wanted ie glass roof. Lift and a few other things.
I was dead set on a 991.2 T manual but could not find one with 4 seats that had the spec i wanted.
All in all very happy with the GTS, PDK is much better than i thought.
The ride and handling really is wonderful. Quite smooth actually.
Only aspect i do not like so much is noise at motorway speed. Tire noise is too much.
Very sensitive to tire pressure. 2.0 front 2.2 bar rear for me.
Just dealt with them myself, purchased a 2018 GTS crayon one owner 5.5k miles absolutely superb !!Had the options i wanted ie glass roof. Lift and a few other things.
I was dead set on a 991.2 T manual but could not find one with 4 seats that had the spec i wanted.
All in all very happy with the GTS, PDK is much better than i thought.
The ride and handling really is wonderful. Quite smooth actually.
Only aspect i do not like so much is noise at motorway speed. Tire noise is too much.
Very sensitive to tire pressure. 2.0 front 2.2 bar rear for me.
guyvert1 said:
Great write-up Palmball, although I imagine it can be frustating, just think about alll those lovely cars you got to try, you're doing what most just dream off.
Good luck finding your unicorn ...
Well, after waiting many months, a few days after this post I kind of found it...Good luck finding your unicorn ...
OK...it's a 992 so a different proposition to the 991 (and as mentioned in this thread, not all for the better) but when this came up on the Porsche Finder last week, at a price £25k below what it would cost to spec new (although you can't actually spec one new like this) I just hit the buy now button and reserved it. Four days later and my 991.2 GTS is sold to JCT600 and this is in my drive.
PCCB - tick
PDCC - tick
Burmester - tick
In fact, most other options - ticked!
Very happy.
Palmball said:
Well, after waiting many months, a few days after this post I kind of found it...
OK...it's a 992 so a different proposition to the 991 (and as mentioned in this thread, not all for the better) but when this came up on the Porsche Finder last week, at a price £25k below what it would cost to spec new (although you can't actually spec one new like this) I just hit the buy now button and reserved it. Four days later and my 991.2 GTS is sold to JCT600 and this is in my drive.
PCCB - tick
PDCC - tick
Burmester - tick
In fact, most other options - ticked!
Very happy.
whilst the above looks pretty, i'd still take a 991.2 gts over it purely for the looks... (bit biased OK...it's a 992 so a different proposition to the 991 (and as mentioned in this thread, not all for the better) but when this came up on the Porsche Finder last week, at a price £25k below what it would cost to spec new (although you can't actually spec one new like this) I just hit the buy now button and reserved it. Four days later and my 991.2 GTS is sold to JCT600 and this is in my drive.
PCCB - tick
PDCC - tick
Burmester - tick
In fact, most other options - ticked!
Very happy.
)They are brilliant cars. I owned one for two years before a friend of mine purchased it (via Porsche).
I'm now in a 992 GTS, which is better. There are some aspects of the looks of the 991.2 that I still prefer (the overall front and the wheels) but outside of that I feel the 992 is better. it even sounds pretty good (my 991.2 was a 2017, pre OPF car).
Buy one.
I'm now in a 992 GTS, which is better. There are some aspects of the looks of the 991.2 that I still prefer (the overall front and the wheels) but outside of that I feel the 992 is better. it even sounds pretty good (my 991.2 was a 2017, pre OPF car).
Buy one.
I reckon it's a slightly different proposition than the 991, or 911's generally before it. Edging more towards a GT car, it feels almost perfectly developed and very contemporary.
I don't think it feels as much of a sports car to drive as the 991 GTS, but in comparison to almost anything else this side of a McLaren etc, it's still very much (indeed, I'd say after having numerous 570/720S, a 488 and a Huracan, the 911's compare very well...it really is law of diminishing returns once you go 'beyond' a 911). However, compared to a 991, it just feel less like a car you're inclined to just throw about; the size is perhaps the main reason why. But let's face it, this was the case when 997 became 911. I doubt it's a S vs GTS thing because this S has the sport chassis and PDCC, as did all my previous 991 GTS. It's just feels a bigger more refined drive so you feel less inclined to grab it by the scruff of the neck.
It doesn't sound as good as (pre-OPF!) 991 3.0 Turbo, but it sounds decent enough and, crucially, significantly better than that OPF-equipped 991 GTS that I've just sold (after 4 weeks). I doubt Porsche did any engineering when equipping the last few production 991's with an OPF, whereas this 992 does actually have some sound.
The seats (I'm only comparing 18-way's here) and seating position in the 992 is considerably better, and that's saying something because the 991 was one of the better driving positions, probably only surpassed by McLaren's. But this 992 is easily the match of any McLaren, probably better because the pedals are straight ahead and not so obviously set up for left foot braking. Comparing to the 991, the 992's seats are better shaped, the wheel comes out into your chest more, your legs are straighter and you sit lower - by comparison, the 991's 18-way seats feel small and narrow and sit you with your knee's slightly raised. The whole inside is a good step forward IMO with one BIG exception - I really miss having a proper PDK gear-lever as I liked changing gear with that over the slightly-too-small paddles. The steering wheel is nicer (small and a bit thicker than the 991), the tech looks good (although I probably prefer the simpler interface of the 991 which, in the .2 did everything one could realistically want in simple kind of way) and it feels a very premium environment.
In my subjective opinion, I think it looks better externally than the 99. In truth, whilst I'm a huge 911 fan I've never been that enamoured by the looks of any 911 but the 992 is the first one I look at and think looks really good.
In summary, I'd say the 992 is the better overall / developed car (be a bit disappointing if it wasn't) that can do everything, but the 991 in pure driving terms is more fun, in a similar vein to the way a great hot hatch can be.
For my use case, I'm happy to give up that n'th degree of driving pleasure to have the benefits of the 992 (not least, for me, the looks). I'd have been all over ordering a 992 GTS but since I've been seriously considering ordering one, I've never been able to spec one with both PCCB's and PDCC, both of which are no longer available options. I'm not buying a car of this value and not getting what I want. A Turbo S is out of my budget so a fully loaded used S was really my only option and I've been waiting for the right spec car like this to come along for months.
I don't think it feels as much of a sports car to drive as the 991 GTS, but in comparison to almost anything else this side of a McLaren etc, it's still very much (indeed, I'd say after having numerous 570/720S, a 488 and a Huracan, the 911's compare very well...it really is law of diminishing returns once you go 'beyond' a 911). However, compared to a 991, it just feel less like a car you're inclined to just throw about; the size is perhaps the main reason why. But let's face it, this was the case when 997 became 911. I doubt it's a S vs GTS thing because this S has the sport chassis and PDCC, as did all my previous 991 GTS. It's just feels a bigger more refined drive so you feel less inclined to grab it by the scruff of the neck.
It doesn't sound as good as (pre-OPF!) 991 3.0 Turbo, but it sounds decent enough and, crucially, significantly better than that OPF-equipped 991 GTS that I've just sold (after 4 weeks). I doubt Porsche did any engineering when equipping the last few production 991's with an OPF, whereas this 992 does actually have some sound.
The seats (I'm only comparing 18-way's here) and seating position in the 992 is considerably better, and that's saying something because the 991 was one of the better driving positions, probably only surpassed by McLaren's. But this 992 is easily the match of any McLaren, probably better because the pedals are straight ahead and not so obviously set up for left foot braking. Comparing to the 991, the 992's seats are better shaped, the wheel comes out into your chest more, your legs are straighter and you sit lower - by comparison, the 991's 18-way seats feel small and narrow and sit you with your knee's slightly raised. The whole inside is a good step forward IMO with one BIG exception - I really miss having a proper PDK gear-lever as I liked changing gear with that over the slightly-too-small paddles. The steering wheel is nicer (small and a bit thicker than the 991), the tech looks good (although I probably prefer the simpler interface of the 991 which, in the .2 did everything one could realistically want in simple kind of way) and it feels a very premium environment.
In my subjective opinion, I think it looks better externally than the 99. In truth, whilst I'm a huge 911 fan I've never been that enamoured by the looks of any 911 but the 992 is the first one I look at and think looks really good.
In summary, I'd say the 992 is the better overall / developed car (be a bit disappointing if it wasn't) that can do everything, but the 991 in pure driving terms is more fun, in a similar vein to the way a great hot hatch can be.
For my use case, I'm happy to give up that n'th degree of driving pleasure to have the benefits of the 992 (not least, for me, the looks). I'd have been all over ordering a 992 GTS but since I've been seriously considering ordering one, I've never been able to spec one with both PCCB's and PDCC, both of which are no longer available options. I'm not buying a car of this value and not getting what I want. A Turbo S is out of my budget so a fully loaded used S was really my only option and I've been waiting for the right spec car like this to come along for months.
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