Where are all the 997.1 GT3s
Discussion
ChrisW. said:
I think in the good times profit comes quite easily ... particularly when prices rise whilst cars sit in stock.
It's very easy to take on costs which are covered first by the profit from sales ... and then from cash flow ... and then from customers cash flow in the form of late payment for SOR sales made ...
The problem is, once it starts going bad the temptation is to work harder to dig yourself out, but sometimes unless you can shed the costs that are dragging you down, no matter how hard you work, without luck the only way is down and in the end, for a lot !
This used to happen to depth divers in the Swiss lakes ... they would reach a point where the compression became so great that they simply lost their buoyancy and kept on down to the bottom for as long as their oxygen lasted / they could breathe.
The challenge of long leases / dilapidations / redundancy payments / .... it costs a lot less to go bust and you don't need to clear-up.
Well he’s not the first specialist Porsche dealer to have sold cars on SOR and not paid the monies to the true owners ...It's very easy to take on costs which are covered first by the profit from sales ... and then from cash flow ... and then from customers cash flow in the form of late payment for SOR sales made ...
The problem is, once it starts going bad the temptation is to work harder to dig yourself out, but sometimes unless you can shed the costs that are dragging you down, no matter how hard you work, without luck the only way is down and in the end, for a lot !
This used to happen to depth divers in the Swiss lakes ... they would reach a point where the compression became so great that they simply lost their buoyancy and kept on down to the bottom for as long as their oxygen lasted / they could breathe.
The challenge of long leases / dilapidations / redundancy payments / .... it costs a lot less to go bust and you don't need to clear-up.
The other two weren’t a million miles away, and IIRC you had dealings with a certain Mr Hawkins ... another bad egg with no scruples when it came to defrauding his clients.
Without expressing an opinion, I believe that the case of Mr Hawkins broke far more laws than that of Mr Mearns, but yes, three within twenty odd miles of each other ?
The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
ChrisW. said:
Without expressing an opinion, I believe that the case of Mr Hawkins broke far more laws than that of Mr Mearns, but yes, three within twenty odd miles of each other ?
The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
More front than Brighton, the lot of ‘em !! The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
Slippydiff said:
ChrisW. said:
Without expressing an opinion, I believe that the case of Mr Hawkins broke far more laws than that of Mr Mearns, but yes, three within twenty odd miles of each other ?
The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
More front than Brighton, the lot of ‘em !! The third was charging Porsche servicing prices and farming the work out to a local tyre fitter ! The only element that was Porsche was the brand on the rubber stamp !!
A silver clubsport 997.1 has appeared on autotrader.
Anyone know this car please?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210070...
Not a seller I have heard of either. Tried googling them and Siena motors doesn’t really come up with much.
Anyone know this car please?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210070...
Not a seller I have heard of either. Tried googling them and Siena motors doesn’t really come up with much.
Someone finally took the Lakeside car too, that must have been listed for over 6 months in the end. Wonder if it was anyone here? I think prices are softening a little on these I am not here to argue for the sake of a few grand, but it still feels like the top of the market, not seeing many price drops, but stuff isn't shifting now. Still.... I am going to wait until the new year, so deep in house renovation stuff at the moment anyway.
I have a question which I’m sure some of you can help with...how much would it cost to re-instate original (if available) OEM springs and dampers etc onto a car that’s had a suspension swap? I would hope when swapped the wiring for the PASM wasn’t taken out, also an original valve exhaust cost would be about how much assuming the back box and valve need to be put back in?
ellesmereFNC said:
I have a question which I’m sure some of you can help with...how much would it cost to re-instate original (if available) OEM springs and dampers etc onto a car that’s had a suspension swap? I would hope when swapped the wiring for the PASM wasn’t taken out, also an original valve exhaust cost would be about how much assuming the back box and valve need to be put back in?
Don’t know price of new OEM spec Bilsteins but exhaust:Back box (bought one about 2 years back) is about £1,300.
Valves are integrated into the side boxes, so you’d need them too, so at least another £1,500 at a guess.
ellesmereFNC said:
I have a question which I’m sure some of you can help with...how much would it cost to re-instate original (if available) OEM springs and dampers etc onto a car that’s had a suspension swap? I would hope when swapped the wiring for the PASM wasn’t taken out, also an original valve exhaust cost would be about how much assuming the back box and valve need to be put back in?
I know the PASM front shocks for a gen2 are about 750 quid each from Porsche. Gen1 would be less, rears probably slightly less again...I went through the exact same thought process as you with vehicles when I was looking - I saw a yellow car and wondered how much it would cost to put back to standard (it was missing the correct rear wing too!) and it just didn't add up to a financially sensible decision.
Several cars sold recently, there was a private sale gen2 clubsport which sold, the hexagon gen2 sold too. Gen1's seem to be hanging around a little longer but they are moving...
ellesmereFNC said:
I have a question which I’m sure some of you can help with...how much would it cost to re-instate original (if available) OEM springs and dampers etc onto a car that’s had a suspension swap? I would hope when swapped the wiring for the PASM wasn’t taken out, also an original valve exhaust cost would be about how much assuming the back box and valve need to be put back in?
It will be towards £5k with installation and a geo. Labour on its own from a specialist will be about £1k.And that's if nothing else needs doing!I was told Bilstein damptronics are probably a better damper and around the same price or a bit cheaper but none were available for the forseeable future when I was looking (a year ago).
braddo said:
It will be towards £5k with installation and a geo. Labour on its own from a specialist will be about £1k.And that's if nothing else needs doing!
I was told Bilstein damptronics are probably a better damper and around the same price or a bit cheaper but none were available for the forseeable future when I was looking (a year ago).
At which price I'd probably go a bit more and have Tractive and DSC anyway.I was told Bilstein damptronics are probably a better damper and around the same price or a bit cheaper but none were available for the forseeable future when I was looking (a year ago).
IbanezDan said:
New one with Porsche - black comfort with pccb and yellow belts, nice contrast…
https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
This has now sold! Anyone on here made a nice purchase?!https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...
ChrisW. said:
I think in the good times profit comes quite easily ... particularly when prices rise whilst cars sit in stock.
It's very easy to take on costs which are covered first by the profit from sales ... and then from cash flow ... and then from customers cash flow in the form of late payment for SOR sales made ...
The problem is, once it starts going bad the temptation is to work harder to dig yourself out, but sometimes unless you can shed the costs that are dragging you down, no matter how hard you work, without luck the only way is down and in the end, for a lot !
This used to happen to depth divers in the Swiss lakes ... they would reach a point where the compression became so great that they simply lost their buoyancy and kept on down to the bottom for as long as their oxygen lasted / they could breathe.
The challenge of long leases / dilapidations / redundancy payments / .... it costs a lot less to go bust and you don't need to clear-up.
Something that does go on is cheekily adding SOR onto stocking finance. I also see private cars being added to stocking finance before the dealership has even paid for the car.It's very easy to take on costs which are covered first by the profit from sales ... and then from cash flow ... and then from customers cash flow in the form of late payment for SOR sales made ...
The problem is, once it starts going bad the temptation is to work harder to dig yourself out, but sometimes unless you can shed the costs that are dragging you down, no matter how hard you work, without luck the only way is down and in the end, for a lot !
This used to happen to depth divers in the Swiss lakes ... they would reach a point where the compression became so great that they simply lost their buoyancy and kept on down to the bottom for as long as their oxygen lasted / they could breathe.
The challenge of long leases / dilapidations / redundancy payments / .... it costs a lot less to go bust and you don't need to clear-up.
The trade don't have it easy though, given how turbulent it is at the moment. The market has dipped 9% in 2 months. Given a car's average Days in Stock is 45 days + (and you may be stuck with some for months) you are making an educated guess at depreciation into the future at a point in time where everything is up in the air.
A lot of the usual "I know what it's worth" Porsche owners will be left waiting around for offers that don't come. My day job isn't in Porsches, but from all the data I've seen, you are taking a huge risk paying current market values (ignoring cars with particular excellent provenance/spec).
Of those online on Autotrader, 997 GT3s are currently averaging 73 days to sell. Of those still currently for sale, they have averaged 128 days online. I am not including the guy trying to sell my old 997.2 6 months on for £14k more than he paid last September. It has been online for so long that his advert reset yesterday. That could would drag the average up quite a bit!
thelostboy said:
Of those online on Autotrader, 997 GT3s are currently averaging 73 days to sell. Of those still currently for sale, they have averaged 128 days online. I am not including the guy trying to sell my old 997.2 6 months on for £14k more than he paid last September. It has been online for so long that his advert reset yesterday. That could would drag the average up quite a bit!
Do have to say, he's using the same pictures you used for the original auction. This car had several questions raised during that time about the gearbox/suspension/torn seat issues and previous bodywork completed and nothing really got firmed up during the auction (I was also bidding and trying to find out info but gave up with the lack of responses I got from yourself and inability to help sort an inspection during the auction which is never a good sign...). Nobody seems to have kept it very long and Ashgoods did bid to buy it back but it went over what they were willing to pay by a long margin.Perhaps he's fixed any issues the car had and is now trying to recuperate some of his financial outlay - however, I suspect he actually hasn't done anything to the car and is trying to cash in. The advantage NOW for a prospective buyer is that, listing it privately now gives whoever a chance to have a prepurchase inspection done. Anything sold at auction unless extremely well documented should sell for LESS than its true market value as auctions like CC have several risks involved.
Assuming that your old car is the .2 Guards red clubsport on autotrader, I've never seen clubsport .2 listed for so long and I suspect it's not sold for more than one reason...
There just isn't many of them and finding a good example is very difficult. Hexagon classics recently sold theirs for 125k which was listed for a while...but looked a great car.
Edited by IbanezDan on Tuesday 18th October 14:09
Edited by IbanezDan on Tuesday 18th October 14:10
Edited by IbanezDan on Tuesday 18th October 14:12
IbanezDan said:
thelostboy said:
Of those online on Autotrader, 997 GT3s are currently averaging 73 days to sell. Of those still currently for sale, they have averaged 128 days online. I am not including the guy trying to sell my old 997.2 6 months on for £14k more than he paid last September. It has been online for so long that his advert reset yesterday. That could would drag the average up quite a bit!
Do have to say, he's using the same pictures you used for the original auction. This car had several questions raised during that time about the gearbox/suspension/torn seat issues and previous bodywork completed and nothing really got firmed up during the auction (I was also bidding and trying to find out info but gave up with the lack of responses I got from yourself and inability to help sort an inspection during the auction which is never a good sign...). Nobody seems to have kept it very long and Ashgoods did bid to buy it back but it went over what they were willing to pay by a long margin.Perhaps he's fixed any issues the car had and is now trying to recuperate some of his financial outlay - however, I suspect he actually hasn't done anything to the car and is trying to cash in. The advantage NOW for a prospective buyer is that, listing it privately now gives whoever a chance to have a prepurchase inspection done. Anything sold at auction unless extremely well documented should sell for LESS than its true market value as auctions like CC have several risks involved.
Assuming that your old car is the .2 Guards red clubsport on autotrader, I've never seen clubsport .2 listed for so long and I suspect it's not sold for more than one reason...
There just isn't many of them and finding a good example is very difficult. Hexagon classics recently sold theirs for 125k which was listed for a while...but looked a great car.
Pretty sure I answered the questions as I remember seeing them - that was regards to me starting a thread on here when I first bought the car saying the gearchange felt stiff; in turned out to just be acclimatisation. I did do a video for CC as a 'walkaround' of the interior for what was a tiny mark on the driver's seat, but to be honest the whole appeal of selling on CC was that I did not have time to entertain viewings. In reality the car would have fetched far more privately (I had at least 20 enquiries), but I just can't afford to write off days to be ready for the usual crowd of multiple Porsche nerds to come along with their paint depth gauges and "Porsche guy".
The only issue - as documented - was the temperamental front lift. An eye-watering fix at an OPC, and for me not justifiable. Otherwise, it was, and still is, quite rare in having a full OPC service history. I'd have it back in a heartbeat if I hadn't splurged on a few cars already.
Edited by thelostboy on Tuesday 18th October 16:33
thelostboy said:
Yes that was my car. It's a pretty terrible advert, devoid of any information and as you have spotted, uses my old photos and a plate that is no longer on the car so can't be HPId easily as a result.
Pretty sure I answered the questions as I remember seeing them - that was regards to me starting a thread on here when I first bought the car saying the gearchange felt stiff; in turned out to just be acclimatisation. I did do a video for CC as a 'walkaround' of the interior for what was a tiny mark on the driver's seat, but to be honest the whole appeal of selling on CC was that I did not have time to entertain viewings. In reality the car would have fetched far more privately (I had at least 20 enquiries), but I just can't afford to write off days to be ready for the usual crowd of multiple Porsche nerds to come along with their paint depth gauges and "Porsche guy".
The only issue - as documented - was the temperamental front lift. An eye-watering fix at an OPC, and for me not justifiable. Otherwise, it was, and still is, quite rare in having a full OPC service history. I'd have it back in a heartbeat if I hadn't splurged on a few cars already.
You offered me a viewing the day before the auction finished (which was also a working day) after I had repeatedly left calls and messages hoping to try and book an inspection in before auction end, hence I didn't continue bidding after around 90k I think!Pretty sure I answered the questions as I remember seeing them - that was regards to me starting a thread on here when I first bought the car saying the gearchange felt stiff; in turned out to just be acclimatisation. I did do a video for CC as a 'walkaround' of the interior for what was a tiny mark on the driver's seat, but to be honest the whole appeal of selling on CC was that I did not have time to entertain viewings. In reality the car would have fetched far more privately (I had at least 20 enquiries), but I just can't afford to write off days to be ready for the usual crowd of multiple Porsche nerds to come along with their paint depth gauges and "Porsche guy".
The only issue - as documented - was the temperamental front lift. An eye-watering fix at an OPC, and for me not justifiable. Otherwise, it was, and still is, quite rare in having a full OPC service history. I'd have it back in a heartbeat if I hadn't splurged on a few cars already.
Edited by thelostboy on Tuesday 18th October 16:33
I think if you are selling anything like this privately you have to be prepared that people will want a professional inspection. If I were to sell my GT3 on CC I would have a pre-sale inspection done by a reputable inspector/dealer to help alleviate any issues a prospective buyer may have/provide peace of mind.
I have sold on CC - its an interesting place to sell a car. I was completely honest and open about what I was selling like I'd expect everyone to be, but unfortunately we don't live in that world. However, after having sold I realised you could quite easily sell a lemon to someone and away with it. Wouldn't touch a car on there of this value now because of what can be quite easily hidden.
I ended up buying one with slightly higher miles than yours but still under Porsche warranty but did pay more. However, less owners and had always been in the Porsche network for service/warranty. All original paint from what I can tell too (minus front bumper!) Hopefully you come back to the fold one day, I certainly won't be leaving it anytime soon.
Andyoz said:
Yep...Heard that the current owner was saying JZM were taking it to sell... now its back to CC. I wonder if the seat belts where they are positioned is hiding the hole in the seat below the headrest or if it's been sorted. Looked like a simple fix, probably just removing the front headrest cover and tucking it back in. Minor issue.
Dan
Edited by IbanezDan on Thursday 27th October 15:20
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